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The Armchair GM Thread (Part Nine)

View Poll Results: Sign him or not
Try-out contract 7 31.82%
1 year contract 9 40.91%
Just no !!!!!!!!!!!!! 6 27.27%
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Old
12-18-2011, 09:52 PM
  #101
arsmaster
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
If the Canucks want Weber, the best thing to do is offer sheet him.

He may even take a bit of a discount doing it, and it would still put the Preds in a tough situation. Offer him a 1yr deal. If the Preds match, they can't deal him and he walks as a UFA after the season... so chances are that the Preds would likely not match even a low offer for 1 yr... if they do, they won't even get a 2nd/3rd round pick for his UFA rights, as he couldn't get traded.

If Weber really wants to come to Vancouver, that is probably the best way to do it for the Canucks...
Yup....
Couldnt have said it better myself, as much as it would be awesome to have him this year, we just might make ourselves a more desirable destination with just one more win.

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12-18-2011, 10:06 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
If the Canucks want Weber, the best thing to do is offer sheet him.

He may even take a bit of a discount doing it, and it would still put the Preds in a tough situation. Offer him a 1yr deal. If the Preds match, they can't deal him and he walks as a UFA after the season... so chances are that the Preds would likely not match even a low offer for 1 yr... if they do, they won't even get a 2nd/3rd round pick for his UFA rights, as he couldn't get traded.

If Weber really wants to come to Vancouver, that is probably the best way to do it for the Canucks...
How does arbitration factor in? The team took Weber to arbitration last year, can they elect for arbitration again? I was under the impression they could. Nashville would be better off taking him to arbitration, signing him to a year deal, then moving him to the highest bidder.

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Old
12-18-2011, 10:21 PM
  #103
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gillis will make minor moves like the lapierre/higgins deal last yr. draft picks+prospects.

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Old
12-18-2011, 10:23 PM
  #104
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How does arbitration factor in? The team took Weber to arbitration last year, can they elect for arbitration again? I was under the impression they could. Nashville would be better off taking him to arbitration, signing him to a year deal, then moving him to the highest bidder.
Nashville can't take Weber to arbitration again. They get it once, and they used it last year and that bit them in the ass when he elected for the 1yr deal and not the 2yr one. Weber can elect arbitration but I doubt he will.

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12-18-2011, 10:42 PM
  #105
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Offer sheet weber, 9 yrs, 63 million.

Yr 1: 11 mil
Yr 2-5: 7 mil
Yr 6-9: 6 mil

A top 4 defense of Edler, Weber, Hamhuis and Bieksa is sexy!

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12-18-2011, 10:51 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by John Swartzwelder View Post
Offer sheet weber, 9 yrs, 63 million.

Yr 1: 11 mil
Yr 2-5: 7 mil
Yr 6-9: 6 mil

A top 4 defense of Edler, Weber, Hamhuis and Bieksa is sexy!
Why? The smartest thing to do would be exactly what NFITO said above since it's been pointed out that Nashville can't elect for arbitration. Offer sheet him for the 6.5mil or so where the compensation is a 1st, 2nd, 3rd. If they match then they will lose him for nothing at seasons end. In reality, if weber isn't re-signed by the draft they may trade him to prevent this scenario.

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12-18-2011, 10:55 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
If the Canucks want Weber, the best thing to do is offer sheet him.

He may even take a bit of a discount doing it, and it would still put the Preds in a tough situation. Offer him a 1yr deal. If the Preds match, they can't deal him and he walks as a UFA after the season... so chances are that the Preds would likely not match even a low offer for 1 yr... if they do, they won't even get a 2nd/3rd round pick for his UFA rights, as he couldn't get traded.

If Weber really wants to come to Vancouver, that is probably the best way to do it for the Canucks...
Why would Nashville not match a lowball offer? I would rather have one more season with Weber than some measly 2nd/3rd round picks. For one, they'd get one more season to convince Shea to stay. Even if the odds are stacked against them doing so, it's worth a shot, imo.

If I were the Canucks though, I'd make every effort to bring Shea to vancouver this off-season. You just never know what can happen in one seasons' time.

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12-18-2011, 10:59 PM
  #108
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Why would Nashville not match a lowball offer? I would rather have one more season with Weber than some measly 2nd/3rd round picks. For one, they'd get one more season to convince Shea to stay. Even if the odds are stacked against them doing so, it's worth a shot, imo.

If I were the Canucks though, I'd make every effort to bring Shea to vancouver this off-season. You just never know what can happen in one seasons' time.
Because they lose him as UFA for nothing possibly by matching it. You can't trade a player that a) the team elects to arbitration and b) signs an offersheet that is matched for 1 year.

That's why.

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12-18-2011, 11:10 PM
  #109
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Because they lose him as UFA for nothing possibly by matching it. You can't trade a player that a) the team elects to arbitration and b) signs an offersheet that is matched for 1 year.

That's why.
You missed the point. He's saying an extra year of Weber plus having more time to try to convince him to stay is worth more than some low picks. Unless it's 4x 1st rounders it wouldn't surprise me to see them match. Which is why we need to put a package together and trade for him at the draft. Trade Schneider for whatever we can then put together a strong package for Weber.

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12-18-2011, 11:18 PM
  #110
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Because they lose him as UFA for nothing possibly by matching it. You can't trade a player that a) the team elects to arbitration and b) signs an offersheet that is matched for 1 year.

That's why.
Just like with what happened with Zach Parise, right?

Shea hasn't completely shut the door on signing with Nashville long-term. Nashville will make every effort to sign him, even if it means the possibility of losing him for nothing. He is the franchise player. Without him, the Preds may not even be a playoff team. You can bet they're not going down without a fight.

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Old
12-18-2011, 11:21 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
Why would Nashville not match a lowball offer? I would rather have one more season with Weber than some measly 2nd/3rd round picks. For one, they'd get one more season to convince Shea to stay. Even if the odds are stacked against them doing so, it's worth a shot, imo.

If I were the Canucks though, I'd make every effort to bring Shea to vancouver this off-season. You just never know what can happen in one seasons' time.
The reason why Nashville wouldn't match the offer sheet is because they wouldn't be able to trade him and risk the possibility of Weber walking away on July 1st 2013 as an UFA while getting nothing in return.

The Weber decision has to be made by July 1st 2012. At the very least Nashville has to sign him to a one year deal and take their chances during the season with the possibility of being able to trade him before the deadline or even possibly at the draft.

If I had to guess I would say nothing gets done until the draft. At that point they'll know if he's willing to sign an extension with Nashville and if he's not then I think they move him.

The question at that point will be what is a team willing to pay for at least one year of Weber.

I think Vancouver has the potential to make a VERY competitive offer.

We could package something along the lines of Raymond (top six forward), Hodgson (top six forward), Schneider (or whatever asset we get in return for Schneider) and a 1st round draft pick (with another conditional 1st round pick if Weber re-signs in Vancouver).

Let's just imagine for a second that Schneider gets traded to Columbus for Johansson (for example).

You then package Johansson with Raymond and Hodgson plus two 1st round draft picks and you've got yourself an unbelievable offer.

How many other teams in the league can potentially offer THREE top six forwards plus 1st round draft picks for Weber??

The real interesting thing about that deal is that you're only taking away two top nine forwards from our current group and you have something that looks like this:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Higgins
LW3-C3-Hansen
Weise-Malhotra-Lappy

Edler-Weber
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Alberts-Tanev

Luongo
Lack

-Ballard would need to get moved in order to create some cap space

At the end of the day you've still got a very strong team and Nashville get's a really good return.

Now it's entirely possible that a team like Philly offers a package around Schenn which makes things interesting because Nashville may have a certain player in mind that they are very interested in and if they get that player then it'll be tough for Vancouver to match that offer.

So it'll be real interesting to see how things unfold but there's no doubt in my mind that if Nashville puts Weber on the market Vancouver will make a VERY competitive offer one that most people around here likely won't be a huge fan of. However a guy like Weber would absolutely complete our defence and it's pretty safe to say he'd complete our team and make us a cup contender for at least another 3-5 years.

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Old
12-18-2011, 11:23 PM
  #112
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Just like with what happened with Zach Parise, right?

Shea hasn't completely shut the door on signing with Nashville long-term. Nashville will make every effort to sign him, even if it means the possibility of losing him for nothing. He is the franchise player. Without him, the Preds may not even be a playoff team. You can bet they're not going down without a fight.
Parise is different. Had he actually gone to arbitration he would have been awarded far less based on a sub-par season due to injury. It was in his best interest to do a one-year deal and assess a long-term one after he got back on form.

It's a different thing with Weber. I'm not saying he wants to leave, I'm explaining why Nashville might not match an offersheet. Even if they do he goes to FA if he wants to. I'm stating hypothetically if Weber wants to leave, that's likely what will happen.

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12-18-2011, 11:27 PM
  #113
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You missed the point. He's saying an extra year of Weber plus having more time to try to convince him to stay is worth more than some low picks. Unless it's 4x 1st rounders it wouldn't surprise me to see them match. Which is why we need to put a package together and trade for him at the draft. Trade Schneider for whatever we can then put together a strong package for Weber.
Here's the question. If they haven't been able to convince him to sign a long term deal yet what are their chances that they'll be able to convince him next year??

Unless this team somehow can prove that they are a cup contender for the next 3-5 years I don't think he signs long term there. I might be wrong but at the very least that's a very risky game to play.

Losing Weber for nothing would cripple that organization. The return they could get for Weber would be real nice and while it doesn't necessarily make them better in the short run it'll soften the blow of losing Weber in the long run.

With that being said who knows how this unfolds. I personally don't think it gets to the offer sheet stage. Poille isn't a dumb GM he knows that someone out there will send an offer sheet and he'll be stuck if that happens. I think whatever is going to happen with Weber will occur sometime between the draft and July 1st.

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Old
12-18-2011, 11:31 PM
  #114
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Now it's entirely possible that a team like Philly offers a package around Schenn which makes things interesting because Nashville may have a certain player in mind that they are very interested in and if they get that player then it'll be tough for Vancouver to match that offer.

So it'll be real interesting to see how things unfold but there's no doubt in my mind that if Nashville puts Weber on the market Vancouver will make a VERY competitive offer one that most people around here likely won't be a huge fan of. However a guy like Weber would absolutely complete our defence and it's pretty safe to say he'd complete our team and make us a cup contender for at least another 3-5 years.
I thought Philadelphia was rumored to be going after Suter...

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Old
12-18-2011, 11:33 PM
  #115
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Parise is different. Had he actually gone to arbitration he would have been awarded far less based on a sub-par season due to injury. It was in his best interest to do a one-year deal and assess a long-term one after he got back on form.

It's a different thing with Weber. I'm not saying he wants to leave, I'm explaining why Nashville might not match an offersheet. Even if they do he goes to FA if he wants to. I'm stating hypothetically if Weber wants to leave, that's likely what will happen.
It always is when it affects our team

It's not different. Parise could have signed long-term and the Devils would have happily given him a blank cheque telling him to name his price. As it turned out, Parise only wanted a one year contract, leading him to UFA status at the end of the season. Are the Devils going to trade him? So far, it looks like the answer is a resounding "NO".

Does this sound familiar?

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12-18-2011, 11:34 PM
  #116
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Evgeny Artyukhin

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12-18-2011, 11:35 PM
  #117
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Here's the question. If they haven't been able to convince him to sign a long term deal yet what are their chances that they'll be able to convince him next year??
You should ask the Devils this question.

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12-18-2011, 11:37 PM
  #118
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It always is when it affects our team

It's not different. Parise could have signed long-term and the Devils would have happily given him a blank cheque telling him to name his price. As it turned out, Parise only wanted a one year contract, leading him to UFA status at the end of the season. Are the Devils going to trade him? So far, it looks like the answer is a resounding "NO".

Does this sound familiar?
I don't know if you read about it, but the Devil's had a big financial kerfuffle going on last summer and it was possible that management told them that they couldn't hand out another 70 million dollar contract until that cleared up.

And my statement about Weber can pertain to any team that does it, not ours necessarily.

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12-18-2011, 11:39 PM
  #119
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Eh, we don't need anymore fringe 4th liners.

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12-18-2011, 11:45 PM
  #120
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Would love him on the 4th line

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12-18-2011, 11:50 PM
  #121
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I don't know if you read about it, but the Devil's had a big financial kerfuffle going on last summer and it was possible that management told them that they couldn't hand out another 70 million dollar contract until that cleared up.

And my statement about Weber can pertain to any team that does it, not ours necessarily.
I guess that's why they gave Andy Greene 3 million a season in the off-season or can afford to keep Dainius Zubrus at 3.4 million or Travis Zajac at 3.5 while their most important player goes unsigned. Talk about getting your priorities in order...

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12-18-2011, 11:58 PM
  #122
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I guess that's why they gave Andy Greene 3 million a season in the off-season or can afford to keep Dainius Zubrus at 3.4 million or Travis Zajac at 3.5 while their most important player goes unsigned. Talk about getting your priorities in order...
You do need more than one player to make a team.

When an organization has already handed out a big money contract like Kovalchuk's you can't just go ahead and hand out another. Especially when bankruptcy rumours linger around.

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12-19-2011, 12:00 AM
  #123
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Is it true that if the offersheet is matched they can't trade him until July 1st (which if he was on a 1 year contract would mean he was already UFA?). I thought the date was January 1st, the same date you can start negotiating a new contract after arbitration.

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12-19-2011, 12:01 AM
  #124
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Doesn't he skate really sloooooooooowly? We don't need to go back to the times were we had tough guys who couldn't make it out of their zones.

Plus, we'd probably need to show the cash to lure him out of Russia - and wouldn't he need to clear waivers?

EDIT: No, he's not slow... I'm mixing him up with some other tough Ruskie.

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12-19-2011, 12:01 AM
  #125
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A better Oreskovich. I wanted him signed last offseason. Insane package of size and speed.

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