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The Armchair GM Thread (Part Nine)

View Poll Results: Sign him or not
Try-out contract 7 31.82%
1 year contract 9 40.91%
Just no !!!!!!!!!!!!! 6 27.27%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-19-2011, 12:02 AM
  #126
thepuckmonster
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Originally Posted by YogiCanucks View Post
Is it true that if the offersheet is matched they can't trade him until July 1st (which if he was on a 1 year contract would mean he was already UFA?). I thought the date was January 1st, the same date you can start negotiating a new contract after arbitration.
January 1st is when they can actually proceed with extensions for players awarded their salary in arbitration or offersheet. You can't trade a player that was taken to arbitration or offersheeted for one year.

I'm not sure what it exactly prevents but I bet someone can explain it.

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Old
12-19-2011, 12:08 AM
  #127
kanuck87
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Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
You do need more than one player to make a team.

When an organization has already handed out a big money contract like Kovalchuk's you can't just go ahead and hand out another. Especially when bankruptcy rumours linger around.
Are you arguing with me just for the sake of arguing or do you really believe that Zubrus, Zajac and Greene collectively are worth keeping around over Parise?

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Old
12-19-2011, 12:09 AM
  #128
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I think NFITO's approach is the correct one... But if I'm Gillis, I don't make a low ball offer... I make an offer that gives Nashville two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd round pick back as compensation... If Nashville's management feels like they're being screwed via a low ball offer, they'd be more inclined to match and try to convince Weber for the year to sign an extension... The goal is to get Weber (not screw Nashville), so when you decide to eat the dog, don't choke on the tail... It's something like Bobby Clarke trying to get Kesler for a 2nd round pick... Put in an offer that would give Nashville a decent return, so that they can save face... and go to Nashville fans and say that the return is significant... That their drafting is strong, and the draft pick assets can be moved for significant players... Weber is their franchise player... They're not going to let him go and be embarrassed in the process... Even if he leaves as an UFA (and Nashville receives nothing in return), Nashville management can say that they did everything they could to get Weber re-signed, right to the final minute... No embarrassment in that... They went down fighting...

I think a $7 million offer would give two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd?

If it doesn't work, try to get him next offseason as an UFA... If it does work, in any deal involving Schneider, try and get a 1st rounder back in the deal... Any deal involving Ballard (would probably need to make cap room), try and get a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd rounder back in the deal... The Canucks should be able to re-coup at least a couple of picks in those rounds...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 12-19-2011 at 12:14 AM.
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12-19-2011, 12:12 AM
  #129
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You should ask the Devils this question.
Different situation.

First of all if they can't get him signed they can either trade him at the deadline or between the draft and july 1st.

Second of all he's coming off a major knee injury so it's possible that they wanted to see how the year unfolds before signing a long term deal.

With Weber it's clear that they've been trying to get him to sign this long term deal since last summer and he wasn't interested.

Last but not least when it's all said and done it might just end up being a mistake for the Devils after all.

In one situation you've got a guy who signed a one year deal only once but in the other situation you might have a guy that signed a one year deal twice which shows that he might just be trying to make his way closer to unrestricted free agency and exploring his options.

Either way both situations aren't pleasant that's for sure.

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Old
12-19-2011, 12:19 AM
  #130
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What I think Gillis' plan is to TRADE for Weber (in the offseason I would imagine) and offer something that would be MORE appealing than 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd draft picks. (but usually Offer Sheet as a pressure tactic).

I could see Nashville looking at Schroeder as a more valuable asset than a one first rounder.

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12-19-2011, 12:20 AM
  #131
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Are you arguing with me just for the sake of arguing or do you really believe that Zubrus, Zajac and Greene collectively are worth keeping around over Parise?
A team is the sum of its parts. If they have two massive contracts on their hand it limits their options to build around Parise. You get rid of Zajac, who centers Parise? They have Henrique doing it now, but it will be Zajac when he comes back. Get rid of Zubrus and you lose a mentor for your prospects, as well as a good player.

If they plan to ice a team filled with rookies do you really think Parise will stay? You can't just invest 170-190 million dollars long term in two players and expect the rest of the pieces to fall into place.

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12-19-2011, 12:21 AM
  #132
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I know everybody wants Shea but if it doesn't happen what about Brad Stuart from DET? UFA after this season and his family is out west so that might help

I'd give Ballard money for him

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12-19-2011, 12:22 AM
  #133
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I don't know who he is, so naturally, I voted to give him a 1 year contract.

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12-19-2011, 12:25 AM
  #134
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I've never really understood why HF seems to like this guy so much more than i'd expect from a fringe player who bailed on the nhl.

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12-19-2011, 12:36 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
You get rid of Zajac, who centers Parise? They have Henrique doing it now, but it will be Zajac when he comes back.
So who will Zajac center when Parise leaves? And who do you think benefits most from playing with one another? I guarantee you the answer ain't Zajac, by a mile.

Quote:
Get rid of Zubrus and you lose a mentor for your prospects, as well as a good player.
What a great reason to keep a lesser player over your franchise player, because he can help the Devils develop their next Parise, but eventually that next Parise will get run out of town because they want to keep the next Zubrus as well

Quote:
If they plan to ice a team filled with rookies do you really think Parise will stay? You can't just invest 170-190 million dollars long term in two players and expect the rest of the pieces to fall into place.
We have Luongo, Kesler and the Sedins all locked up in long-term big money contracts and that seems to be working out fine for us and the Devils are only 3 million under the cap. If they wanted to sign Parise and build around him and Kovalchuk, they definitely have the means to do so.

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12-19-2011, 12:39 AM
  #136
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Doesn't he skate really sloooooooooowly? We don't need to go back to the times were we had tough guys who couldn't make it out of their zones.
You must be thinking of a different player.


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12-19-2011, 12:40 AM
  #137
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So who will Zajac center when Parise leaves? And who do you think benefits most from playing with one another? I guarantee you the answer ain't Zajac, by a mile.
Kovalchuk. Parise and Kovalchuk are both LWers.


Quote:
What a great reason to keep a lesser player over your franchise player, because he can help the Devils develop their next Parise, but eventually that next Parise will get run out of town because they want to keep the next Zubrus as well
I hardly think Zubrus' 3.5M is standing in the way of resigning Parise. You can't just have one line. You need 4 lines to play. And they can't all be scrubs. See: Washington, Toronto

Quote:
We have Luongo, Kesler and the Sedins all locked up in long-term big money contracts and that seems to be working out fine for us and the Devils are only 3 million under the cap. If they wanted to sign Parise and build around him and Kovalchuk, they definitely have the means to do so.
Vancouver is not in any cash troubles. The Aquilinis bleed money. Just because they're up near the cap doesn't mean that their salary structure is as well. You can't give out money you don't have. Match that with the fact they have to find a replacement for Brodeur and resign other players.

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12-19-2011, 12:52 AM
  #138
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I'm done with this argument. Just the fact that you think Zajac and Zubrus ( 7.2 million combined) is more important to keep around than Parise is completely assinine.

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12-19-2011, 12:55 AM
  #139
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I'm done with this argument. Just the fact that you think Zajac and Zubrus ( 7.2 million combined) is more important to keep around than Parise is completely assinine.
Lolokay. That's not what I'm arguing but thanks for coming out.

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12-19-2011, 01:00 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
Lolokay. That's not what I'm arguing but thanks for coming out.
So would you sign Parise and get rid of Zubrus and Zajac? If this was possible, why haven't the Devils already done so?

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12-19-2011, 01:02 AM
  #141
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So would you sign Parise and get rid of Zubrus and Zajac? If this was possible, why haven't the Devils already done so?
If I'm the Devils I wait and see what is happening on the bankruptcy side of things vis a vis the issues with the stadium and team investors. If that's the case and they put a kibosh on spending, then yes. Trade away as few parts as possible to free up salary and sign him for 3-5 years with the space.

If everything turns out hunky dory in Jersey land then you aim to keep them all if possible.

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12-19-2011, 01:03 AM
  #142
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Just for kicks, Parise for Schneider

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-Parise
Raymond-Hodgson-Higgins
Malhotra-Lappy-Hansen

Make someone expendable for a defenceman too.

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12-19-2011, 01:04 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by thepuckmonster View Post
If I'm the Devils I wait and see what is happening on the bankruptcy side of things vis a vis the issues with the stadium and team investors. If that's the case and they put a kibosh on spending, then yes. Trade away as few parts as possible to free up salary and sign him for 3-5 years with the space.
Wow, you really think this is what's stopping the Devils from being able to re-sign Parise...

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12-19-2011, 01:07 AM
  #144
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Wow, you really this is what's stopping the Devils from being able to re-sign Parise...
Well, if there's an issue with what the team's long term plans are, then yes. There isn't any reason to think Parise wants to leave, just like there isn't any concrete evidence that he wants to stay. It's all speculation.

The GM is at the mercy of the guy that owns the team. If he says wait, you wait. It's not like Parise can walk away until July. He doesn't have to be resigned to a multi-year massive contract as an RFA. If he wants to stay a Devil they will keep him and find a way to accommodate him. This isn't solely my opinion, it's also the opinion of a lot of Devils fans and beat writers. Like I said, you can't give out money that isn't there. Sure you can get rid of parts to accommodate it, but it's not a guarantee that you won't have to take back salary or a loss in quality.

Personally I feel the Kovalchuk signing was a huge mistake (in term and money) for a team that hasn't got a very sturdy financial future. The Prudential Center cost a lot more to build than projected and the Devils have a share in that overage as well.

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12-19-2011, 01:22 AM
  #145
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Im definately not against it.

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12-19-2011, 01:23 AM
  #146
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This team's priority should be to add a dman. A top-4 right side guy to play next to Ballard on the 3rd pairing, but capable (top-4) to jump up for Salo's next injury. Moves Rome to the #7 - and he's the perfect #7dman.

It will likely be a rental, and I'm guessing Gillis would target someone he could re-sign at a reasonable price. The guy that seems to fit that description perfectly is Brett Clark - if TBay is out of the playoffs by deadline (not likely)...or Phoenix's trio of vet right handed rentals (Morris, Aucoin, Rozsival), one is likely to be available by deadline with Rundblad in the picture now.
i completely agree that a top-4 RHS d-man should be the top priority...but none of the mentioned guys really seem like a good fit, for various reasons.

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I doubt they go after any name players for the rest of the season.

Adding Weber is a good plan, but that's the kind of move you make in the offseason. It makes it harder for the player, too, remember Alberts after the deadline trade? He was hopelessly lost because he didn't know the Canuck's system.

If Gillis makes any moves at all I'll be surprised. What's he waiting for? If there was desire to move people the time to do it was before you struggle along with Dmen playing on the wing. He didn't.

Usually around this team there are plenty of leaks. Not this season. I think it is because there is nothing to leak. No moves coming.
agree with this as well.

The Weber talk is the sort of thing that materializes in the offseason. That sort of massive shakeup is just not the sort of thing you want to do to a team like the Canucks right now. Sure...if they were to bomb out of the playoffs this year, you look at a major shakeup like that...but you don't add $7.5-8M in salary and that calibre of player without significantly disrupting a team. That disruption being in the summer really minimizes the damage...but in season, it's just not realistic from a top team.

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12-19-2011, 01:33 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
It all hinges on Ballard. People have remarked that the D still needs additions. Well, nothing is happening unless Ballard's contract is first moved. That's where it starts. If he is moved, then VAN can talk about adding bigger pieces. If he isn't then changes are very unlikely.


Without Ballard moving, they pick up a depth forward at the deadline via minor trade or waivers.


With him moving, the stage is set for bigger changes to the D and/or forwards (D changes being more likely).

a lot of truth in this post. i see it pretty much the same way.

it basically boils down to:

a)Ballard proves himself a valid top-4 replacement on the right-side and we add little other than a bit of depth.

or

b)Ballard proves he just isn't a fit here and can't play top-4 right-side minutes. at which point we either find a way to bring in a young/very low cap-hit RHS guy to play on the bottom-pairing alongside Ballard, as Salo insurance. or we move Ballard for a RHS guy who CAN potentially fill-in top-4 minutes on the right-side in an offensive/two-way role, and then add an extra LHS steady type to pair with them.



i guess there's also plan c)Tanev comes back up before the deadline and beasts all over the NHL and we all sit back and relax.

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12-19-2011, 02:47 AM
  #148
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It worries me that he can't seem to stick in the NHL. Thus I vote no.

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12-19-2011, 03:03 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
b)Ballard proves he just isn't a fit here and can't play top-4 right-side minutes. at which point we either find a way to bring in a young/very low cap-hit RHS guy to play on the bottom-pairing alongside Ballard, as Salo insurance. or we move Ballard for a RHS guy who CAN potentially fill-in top-4 minutes on the right-side in an offensive/two-way role, and then add an extra LHS steady type to pair with them.

Yes, this is how I see it. Basically, you'd want at least one guy on the bottom pair that is very capable of playing top4 minutes. I don't know if Ballard is that. If the team thinks he can't take those minutes, then he needs to be moved.


While I don't think Gorges is an ideal fit on this team, he's the type of player that can move up and not look out of place. It's too bad Montreal brought in Kaberle's 4m contract. I could have seen a deal go down sending Ballard there. Now, not so much.

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12-19-2011, 04:01 AM
  #150
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You then package Johansson with Raymond and Hodgson plus two 1st round draft picks and you've got yourself an unbelievable offer.

How many other teams in the league can potentially offer THREE top six forwards plus 1st round draft picks for Weber??
A better question is how many teams are stupid enough to offer that kind of package? Answer is none.


I'd rather offer something (if Nashville was interested) around Booth + Draft picks.

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