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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Forsberg: Sweden didn't "try their hardest" against SVK in '06

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Old
12-19-2011, 02:29 AM
  #76
roto
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I guess Swedes had calculated things also in Vancouver and they thought that they'll get an easier opponent if they let Slovakia win. However, this time their calculators got it wrong. Let's see how they'll beeline in Sochi.

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12-19-2011, 02:38 AM
  #77
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I'm a Finn and to me it was totally understandable how the game went. The game does not have to be thrown intentionally. The circumstances were clearly such that winning the game would not have smoothened the road to the final for the Swedish team. Anything but. That makes it easy to not have yourself mentally set to win the game 100%. There might have been an odd 4th liner eager to score on every chance, but when your top players are only into it let's say 95%, you're going to lose. Whether you mean to lose or not.

It was just a smart thing to do. There's always a lot of luck involved in a short tournament. Swedes got lucky when the results panned out certain way so they got to the position to do this smart thing and take it a bit easy against the Slovaks.

To anyone saying it's stupid from Foppa to speak publicly about it: you're wrong. Telling the thruth never hurt any sport in the long term.

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Old
12-19-2011, 02:40 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the banks View Post
It's not poor sportsmanship, it's good gamesmanship.
Actually it's both.

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Old
12-19-2011, 03:10 AM
  #79
Lugaid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMANumminen View Post
I'm not playing games. That was the truth. And you are clearly ashamed of it.
Why should I be ashamed? Forsberg has never said that they lost intentionally, and very few people who post here seem to realise that. Why the hell would they play their hardest in a game that didn't matter, except that if they won they would face a more difficult team the next game?


Quote:
Dunno what is lahtis but...
The fact that my post got deleted says it all about the seriousness of that matter; google it.


Quote:
For example, in the last WC final (Fin-Swe 6-1) Mikko Koivu said to swedish captain (I don't know his name) that if you score 2 goals we will start hitting you. Sweden looked really scared and lost on purpose. On the other hand, it was clever to avoid serious injuries because summer holidays were just about to start.
Seems kind of ridiculous, I've never heard that. Especially since Sweden had a big and unusually physical team.

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12-19-2011, 04:09 AM
  #80
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Sundin denies everything! The plot thickens! More fuel for the fire!

http://www.dn.se/sport/ishockey/sund...e-en-laggmatch

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Old
12-19-2011, 04:17 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Lugaid View Post

The fact that my post got deleted says it all about the seriousness of that matter; google it.
Guess I will take your word for it, all google shows up is a city in Finland. Meaning also is by the bay. Probably don't really want to know, but needless to say searching for it was a wasted effort.

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Old
12-19-2011, 04:35 AM
  #82
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Hehe I'm just kidding...but I don't understand the Finns here that are "********" for sweden and defending them.

If you ever have chance to low-blow them swedes you use it. And I'm not talkin about BJ but kick to the nuts just to be clear

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12-19-2011, 04:39 AM
  #83
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I'm not saying it's good or bad, it's just their choice. But I think it's lame to blame the system. System isn't forcing anybody to do so. For example the Czechs could easily lose some games during past couple of WJC's to make their way into the "easy" group next year, but they don't do that.

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Old
12-19-2011, 04:43 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by MMANumminen View Post
If you ever have chance to low-blow them swedes you use it. And I'm not talkin about BJ but kick to the nuts just to be clear
Yes, the classic "Little brother mentality".

Get over it. We've been out of their dictatorship for 200 years.

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12-19-2011, 04:52 AM
  #85
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Who cares? If the system made it so losing was preferred to winning, obviously they did the right thing. Blame the system, not the team.

If they had gone on to lose the Gold, I would understand being upset at this decision. But obviously it worked out for them - therefore they did the right thing.

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Old
12-19-2011, 04:56 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Markstroms pads View Post
The finnish way? Loosing the finals then cry lika a *****.
That was more like a swedish way, after last final topics were full of swedes trying to diss the victory, someone even made a topic right after final how no one should give a **** about world Championships anyway

I think the Swedes should keep the gold because they still won the Final fairly, and winning gold in any other way but playing would be horrible, i would rather give the gold for someone else if it was token away from Sweden.

I dont blame those players, why to win if it hurts the team. Ofcourse they sold part of their pride then but then they won the gold so they gained pride there!



What do some guys mean Forsberg didint say what he said? Did he get some kind of time machine? It was all over papers what he had said in Swedish interview.
I respect Forsberg the most of all. Hes honest man, hockey legend and winner. He doesn't have to lie and talk bullcrap. I hate lying and ******** talking. Just admit you lost intentionally and won the ****ing gold like a boss doing what ever it takes to win. No ones going to take your gold away. No one wants your gold in any other way but playing it on the rink. I respect winning and honesty, i hate lying and talking bs.


Last edited by QnebO: 12-19-2011 at 05:04 AM.
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Old
12-19-2011, 05:05 AM
  #87
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Mods, please change the thread title, it's very misleading and entirely false.

At no point did Forsberg say they lost intentionally, just that they played unmotivated with nothing to gain with a win and taking care to avoid injuries.

An entirely different thing.

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Old
12-19-2011, 05:10 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QnebO View Post
That was more like a swedish way, after last final topics were full of swedes trying to diss the victory, someone even made a topic right after final how no one should give a **** about world Championships anyway
Seriously, WC isnt that big. OG and WJC are the only tournaments I really watch. Sure I may have the TV on if Sweden playing WC final, but meanwhile I might look around on internet or something like that and have the TV on in the background, that's not something I do when it's OG or WJC. Too me SEL, OG and WJC are the main thing..
If all the best players from each country played WC it probably would be different

However, never fun to lose against the finns!

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Old
12-19-2011, 05:15 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Glory View Post
Seriously, WC isnt that big. OG and WJC are the only tournaments I really watch. Sure I may have the TV on if Sweden playing WC final, but meanwhile I might look around on internet or something like that and have the TV on in the background, that's not something I do when it's OG or WJC. Too me SEL, OG and WJC are the main thing..
If all the best players from each country played WC it probably would be different

However, never fun to lose against the finns!
I know World Championship aint that big, but its funny when Sweden winns they dont nap about it. It really was done that bitter way, which i ofc understand (the bitterness right after final), it was just done to mock the party we had out here.

When i watch WHC, WJC or Olympics I'm allways all in. I dont really watch finnish games analytically when the playoff rounds start, its full emotion for me. WHC is big in Finland, bigger than in any other country, the whole hockey is so big and the greatest of all in Finland that probably only canadians would understand us, not u swedes or americans for example when hockey is not that big for them.

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Old
12-19-2011, 06:51 AM
  #90
zorz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glory View Post
Seriously, WC isnt that big. OG and WJC are the only tournaments I really watch. Sure I may have the TV on if Sweden playing WC final, but meanwhile I might look around on internet or something like that and have the TV on in the background, that's not something I do when it's OG or WJC. Too me SEL, OG and WJC are the main thing..
If all the best players from each country played WC it probably would be different

However, never fun to lose against the finns!
WC is bigger than WJC for sure. Ordinary fans hardly care about WJC. Only in Canada it's the other way.

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Old
12-19-2011, 06:58 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Lugaid View Post
What's the finnish way if you want to play that game; Lahtis?
Better than losing intentionaly and playing with no heart or guts (Sedins), and the recent play where Sweden's captain avoided being hit in EHT by ducking? Also never seen a hockey fight? Happens once a while in every top league. NHL, KHL, SM-League... Also Finnish way of playing is mostly about working hard and checking. We rarely have offensive minded players. And when playing hard your feelings might heat a bit.

Everybody knew they lost intentionaly anyways. The played it smart and not giving a ****. I give them recognition for it.

Still I'm mad at the final result of the final game. In the faceoff, which led to the winning goal, Sundin smashed Koivu's stick who had to go and get a new stick which of course led to the game winning goal.

*You may notice the extra grudge and being jealous for their success due to me being Finnish*

E: Oh and yes, I'm one of the butt hurt Finns but not due to the intentional lose, I'm butt hurt because of their arrogance attidude and beating us back in 2006. Surely '11 gold warms me with the 6-1 win


Last edited by Keeptdos: 12-19-2011 at 01:21 PM.
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Old
12-19-2011, 06:59 AM
  #92
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If there was an organized effort to lose on purpose, they should lose their medals. But as others have indicated, the title of the thread seems disengenuous to what Forsberg actually said.

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Old
12-19-2011, 07:23 AM
  #93
tony d
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I remember hearing about this. It was stupid. You give your 100% each and every game no matter who you're playing or what the consequences of victory are.

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12-19-2011, 07:45 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Hybbe View Post
Sundin denies everything! The plot thickens! More fuel for the fire!

http://www.dn.se/sport/ishockey/sund...e-en-laggmatch
Yes, i agree!

Next question in my mind is, why Sundin and other Swedish player has to denies this if it was just good tactics?

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12-19-2011, 07:58 AM
  #95
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Yes, i agree!

Next question in my mind is, why Sundin and other Swedish player has to denies this if it was just good tactics?
Huh? Sundin denies Sweden lost on purpose, something that Forsberg never even said they did. How do you know this was their tactic?

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Old
12-19-2011, 10:49 AM
  #96
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Huh? Sundin denies Sweden lost on purpose, something that Forsberg never even said they did. How do you know this was their tactic?
Whats the point for anyone to deny it (except players), when everyone clearly saw it on the game what they're doing.. I think Sweden cant lose the medal anymore anyway, and no one really would care to do anything anymore. I dont see they could've sucked that bad in any way. They kinda played, but then didint shoot the puck and really didint try to score. It doesnt matter do the players deny it (ofc they do).

What has happened has happened, its done and even vancouver is allready played. Everyone knows it, but it never couldn't be proved. Even if one or two players slips to admit it, its not enough. I really dont even see why is this brought up again on public.

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Old
12-19-2011, 01:27 PM
  #97
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So what? Sweden still had to win three more games after that, just like the other teams, so I really don't understand what people are upset about.

It's not like Slovakia never wins against Sweden otherwise either, unfortunatly...maybe it was carma that we lost that game we should have won in 2010...

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Old
12-19-2011, 05:50 PM
  #98
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"Playing not to win" is like diving. It's an unethical way to gain an advantage.
It's bush league and a 'female dog' move.

So I have no problem believing Forsberg is capable of it.

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Old
12-19-2011, 06:05 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Puhis View Post
Champions League and Olympic hockey are not comparable, though. Football WC and Olympic hockey, however, are a better comparison. Still, I see where you're going with that, and I don't necessarily disagree with you. However, losing on purpose or not, their display was very poor in that game and it was evident that they were not giving even 50%, let alone 100% in that game. And that, to me, is similar to throwing a game. It's not only shameful, it's very unfair towards the fans, like us lot. Like you and me, for example. And it's very disrespectful towards the opponent as well, when they try hard to win the game and then see that their opposition is basically mocking you.

To see Forsberg coming out like that and basically telling that to the face of the fans is disheartening. I'm not naive, far from it, but I would still like to believe that ice hockey, in essence, would ultimately be about competing as a team, to see which team is better. Not about politics, trickery and fraud.
1. Agree. Either WC or EC. Now there's a good example from EC. 2004. Denmark-Sweden is the final game in the group stage. With a draw of 2-2 or better. Both teams advanced. If not, Italy would advance to make the quarterfinals. Italy scored 4 minutes in OT to win 2-1 against Bulgaria. Only to hear that Sweden had equalized to 2-2 some 5 minutes before the end against Denmark. Then both teams didn't make much efforts to win the game. Since it benefited them to draw.

2. Now, they had tried to win for some 85 minutes or so. But after that they were happy about the score. That is logical. Of course Italy called it a farce and staged. But it was a coincidence who both teams didn't have a problem with.

Now, to finish you statement. That agrees to the 1982 World Cup group stage final game between Austria and East-Germany(I think). Which is known as the most boring and shameful game of all time. As far as I know. Both teams were through with a draw. So both teams passed the ball around for 90 minutes in a 0-0 game. And Algeria was sent home packing.


Last edited by SirKillalot: 12-20-2011 at 10:26 AM.
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Old
12-19-2011, 06:12 PM
  #100
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I remember hearing about this. It was stupid. You give your 100% each and every game no matter who you're playing or what the consequences of victory are.
In professional sport where there is so much at stake. No you don't. If you actually believe otherwise. Then you are sugarcoating it big time.

I bet that there have been teams in the NHL who have not given their all(or at least lay of to not risk any injuries) in their final games of the regular season to get to face the team they wanted in the first round of the playoffs. It has surely happened before, and it will surely happen again.

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