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Another ex-Whalers Owner on whether Hartford gets back a team

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Old
12-20-2011, 11:04 AM
  #26
Icedog2735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsByTheBay View Post
My parents are from CT and I had family members who were Whaler fans so I would love to see them back.

But you HAVE to engage those Fairfield County people. The franchise is DOA otherwise. There is money in the Hartford suburbs, but with FC money, that would be enough to support a team. If not, then there isn't.

I think UCONN has showed a new team something that didn't really exist in 1995 or 96 - that the people of CT, who are normally seen as attached to Boston or NY but not their own state, do actually have more state pride than people thought. If the Whalers could tie into that it would work.

There's a lot of ifs though, and I can see (especially with the congestion around that area) why it wouldn't be high on the NHL's list.
For that reason I think if the NHL were ever to return to CT, New Haven would be a more practical location to tap into that wealth then Hartford ever would be.

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12-20-2011, 11:42 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Icedog2735 View Post
For that reason I think if the NHL were ever to return to CT, New Haven would be a more practical location to tap into that wealth then Hartford ever would be.
I think that if Whalers 2.0 were to become reality, its market would need to include Fairfield County and the suburbs north of New York. Growing up on the NY side of the NY/CT border, it was frustrating that the closest NHL team to me was out-of-market. Yet at the same time they claimed the Albany TV market as theirs but there was no way for those in the New York majority of the market to get the games.

If the Islanders were to move across the Sound, it'd be the easiest way. Sadly, if they moved I'd think that MSG would fight to the nail to enforce the last 15ish years of that obscene and stupid 50 year TV deal they signed during the dynasty years. Who signs a contract for that long not knowing where anything would end up?

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Old
12-20-2011, 11:54 AM
  #28
Lazyking
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Originally Posted by karnige View Post
I can't see why the nhl will give them a team again considering their attendance was poor before
when your team blows for like 8 years straight, attendance is gonna be down unless you play in Canada.

people in CT would come to see winners.

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12-20-2011, 12:24 PM
  #29
Mayor Bee
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Don't know how reliable these links are, but assuming they are accurate, Winnipeg very consistently hovered around 13K for its entire NHL existence (the first time around). Hartford varied a bit, but was quite regularly a couple of thousand lower than Winnipeg. Not that I'm taking sides, because I would love for both to be in the NHL, but at the moment there appears to be a "Winnipeg had terrible attendance" meme here that isn't borne out by the numbers.

http://www.curtiswalker.com/jets/attendance.aspx

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendan...h.php?tmi=6045
13,000 in Winnipeg was right around 85% of capacity. Besides that, the first link seems to clearly show a fan base that couldn't be bothered to show up during the regular season, but once the playoffs started, the building was packed.

Also, it's not a meme. It's a set of facts borne out by numbers and disseminated by people like me, who wish to see the revisionist history about several teams and cities stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
when your team blows for like 8 years straight, attendance is gonna be down unless you play in Canada.

people in CT would come to see winners.
Does that absolve every targeted team du jour in the United States for poor attendance?

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12-20-2011, 01:49 PM
  #30
Lazyking
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no I didn't say it absloved anything, I'm just saying in hockey, being a crap team for a long period will drive fans away more than any other sport. Not to mention that when a team is mismanged, barely marketed its gonna suffer.

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Old
12-20-2011, 02:52 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsByTheBay View Post
My parents are from CT and I had family members who were Whaler fans so I would love to see them back.

But you HAVE to engage those Fairfield County people. The franchise is DOA otherwise. There is money in the Hartford suburbs, but with FC money, that would be enough to support a team. If not, then there isn't.

I think UCONN has showed a new team something that didn't really exist in 1995 or 96 - that the people of CT, who are normally seen as attached to Boston or NY but not their own state, do actually have more state pride than people thought. If the Whalers could tie into that it would work.

There's a lot of ifs though, and I can see (especially with the congestion around that area) why it wouldn't be high on the NHL's list.
I don't you are going to get FFC people to be season ticket holders.
It just is too far away, most of the FFC workforce is in Stamford-Norwalk and that area is part of the NYC region.

Hartford would have to count on metro Hartford to support it through ticket sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icedog2735 View Post
For that reason I think if the NHL were ever to return to CT, New Haven would be a more practical location to tap into that wealth then Hartford ever would be.
That's not practical, New Haven is a much less wealthy city than Hartford.

If CT gets a team, it will have to because Hartford itself can support it. FFC people are going to flock anymore to New Haven than they would Hartford.

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Old
12-20-2011, 08:04 PM
  #32
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This topic aught my interest. I live about 15/20 minutes from Hartford. Those plans are nice but that whole area would really need some help. Parking and traffic would become an issue downtown, commuting through their is a nightmare.

And from what was said above, if they brought a team that could actually win then they would pack the place. That team STUNK for a long time. I'd love to see them back, but i would never switch from the Bruins (always was a bruins fan). My fathers best friend was an assistant coach for the whalers and i'd say at least 50% of the players lived in my town.

Now that being said, i do wonder about the support. Sure the bring back the whale is everywhere. You cant go to a UConn game without a "lets go whalers" breaking out at some point. However the people doing this are the Teen yuppies that think it's cool because it's an old school team and they can wear the whalers snapbacks and shirts. If a team came would they support them after a couple months?

Again i'd love to see a team (for the adams div. rivalry as well as a closer team), but i just cant see it happening. Need some TruNorth money and Baldwin doesn't have it.

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12-20-2011, 09:06 PM
  #33
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Hartford . "Greater Hartford is the 44th largest metropolitan area by population in the United States" "and the slowest-growing part of Connecticut." This does not indicate any team in Hartford in the next decade.

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Old
12-21-2011, 12:03 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthews View Post
I don't you are going to get FFC people to be season ticket holders.
It just is too far away, most of the FFC workforce is in Stamford-Norwalk and that area is part of the NYC region.

Hartford would have to count on metro Hartford to support it through ticket sales.


That's not practical, New Haven is a much less wealthy city than Hartford.

If CT gets a team, it will have to because Hartford itself can support it. FFC people are going to flock anymore to New Haven than they would Hartford.
New Haven's like anywhere not named Bridgeport, the New Haven Coliseum fell into disrepair just as XL isn't getting any younger and was demolished via implosion in 2007, after basically being closed in '02.

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Old
12-21-2012, 03:44 PM
  #35
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Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

1st off Hartford would not be encroaching on Bruins/Islanders/Rangers territory, whoever says that is wrong because Hartford is over 100 miles away from all those teams. 2nd I'd say the Bruins are more popular around central CT and once you head West to Fairfield County you'll find more and more Rangers fans.

Now for those who say Jacobs and Dolan would be anti-Hartford, Jacobs has been on record saying he supports an NHL with Hartford for the simple fact it would reduce travel costs for him and many other owners. Both the Rangers and Bruins know they receive a negligible amount of business from Hartford/CT (minus Fairfield county) so what would the big gripe be? Better rivalries, more $ in Hartford, less traveling, and bringing back an iconic brand. Let's not forget that Whalers merchandise is being sold quicker than Hotcakes and there's more $$ to be made through that if they can spruce up a new design with the same logo and start selling jersey's.

Now about television, it goes back to Jacobs. If Jacobs views a team in Hartford as a way to make himself more $ he could potentially setup a NESN-HFD/NESN3 type deal that airs Whalers games and could potentially simulcast with Bruins games.

Once the NHL expands to 32 and goes to the 4 conference setup Hartford should be in serious consideration as a relocation candidate because IMO the expansion teams should be Seattle & Quebec City. Eventually one of PHX, CLB, FLA, ETC. will be up for grabs and hopefully Hartford will be in a position similar to Winnipeg (obviously not Thomson/TruNorth style), but have their house in order and can make a case to Bettman or whoever.

West:
Division 1: Avalanche, Canucks, Flames, Oilers, Seattle, Ducks, Kings and Sharks
Division 2: Jets, Red Wings, Stars, Wild, Blues, Blackhawks, Preds and Blue Jackets

East:
Division 1: Islanders, Devils, Rangers, Penguins, Flyers, Capitals, Hurricanes and Panthers
Division 2: Maple Leafs, Senators, Bruins, Whalers, Canadiens, Sabres, Nordiques and Lightning

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:03 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
13,000 in Winnipeg was right around 85% of capacity. Besides that, the first link seems to clearly show a fan base that couldn't be bothered to show up during the regular season, but once the playoffs started, the building was packed.

Also, it's not a meme. It's a set of facts borne out by numbers and disseminated by people like me, who wish to see the revisionist history about several teams and cities stop.



Does that absolve every targeted team du jour in the United States for poor attendance?
The trouble Mayor Bee is the inclusion of the word 'terrible'. If you care to look at all the teams attendance records in the 80's you will note that several teams had periodic low attendance during that period. Including Boston, Vancouver, Detroit, New Jersey, Minnesota, Washington, Buffalo, Hartford, and Los Angeles. Now outside of Buffalo all these cities are much larger centers than Winnipeg, who had a very outdated arena and a whole bunch of non competitive teams. I would say consistency like that is laudable, not terrible. So who exactly is engaging in revisionism?

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Old
12-21-2012, 08:52 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Lars65 View Post
The trouble Mayor Bee is the inclusion of the word 'terrible'. If you care to look at all the teams attendance records in the 80's you will note that several teams had periodic low attendance during that period. Including Boston, Vancouver, Detroit, New Jersey, Minnesota, Washington, Buffalo, Hartford, and Los Angeles. Now outside of Buffalo all these cities are much larger centers than Winnipeg, who had a very outdated arena and a whole bunch of non competitive teams. I would say consistency like that is laudable, not terrible. So who exactly is engaging in revisionism?
What's really funny is when the word "Winnipeg" comes up anywhere in this site, he's there, talking about the attendance. Let's just say he loves Winnipeg.

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Old
12-21-2012, 09:14 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
13,000 in Winnipeg was right around 85% of capacity. Besides that, the first link seems to clearly show a fan base that couldn't be bothered to show up during the regular season, but once the playoffs started, the building was packed.

Also, it's not a meme. It's a set of facts borne out by numbers and disseminated by people like me, who wish to see the revisionist history about several teams and cities stop.

Does that absolve every targeted team du jour in the United States for poor attendance?
Nice try.

Why do you continually trot out old Jets attendance numbers and then shape them to suit your misguided view of the Winnipeg market at that time? You do this in thread after thread. I repeat; Winnipeg's attendance sans the lame duck season was roughly akin to the league averages at that time, and that is despite that the Jets back then played in a retrofitted, ancient building that featured several thousand seats with partially blocked views.

Why is the Jets attendance in an unfit building in the 90s' relevant to whether or not Hartford will return today? Answer; it isn't. Fast forward to today though and the Jets are a team ranked top 10 in operating income in the NHL as per Forbes while your Columbus Blue Jackets conversely are rumored to have lost $35 million last season if Bill Watters is correct, so I'm guessing that the Jets attendance in the 90s' should probably be the least of your concerns today.

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12-21-2012, 09:19 PM
  #39
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I rather enjoy the fact that it took 366 days for anything I said to be contested.

If you keep digging far enough, you may be able to find what I said online in high school (although the ISP I used then no longer exists, and hasn't existed for many years).

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12-21-2012, 09:20 PM
  #40
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I don't think American owners realize that you could put an NHL team almost anywhere in Canada (excluding the north) and it would do well. Canadians are crazy about hockey, it doesn't matter who's playing.

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12-21-2012, 09:24 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I rather enjoy the fact that it took 366 days for anything I said to be contested.

If you keep digging far enough, you may be able to find what I said online in high school (although the ISP I used then no longer exists, and hasn't existed for many years).
I'd like to conversely thank whoever bumped this thread as it gave me yet another opportunity to correct your misguided comments about Winnipeg at that time.


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