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Old
12-18-2011, 09:34 PM
  #26
KevinFG
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To me, it's either THIS or this:
  • Ruff can't reach Roy and Stafford.
  • Ruff is responsible for bad goaltending.
  • Ruff can't deal with 9 injuries.

One of the above is true. The rest are false. Quite frankly, I'm not sure which it is.

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12-18-2011, 09:49 PM
  #27
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From what I understand the core is Vanek, Roy, Pominville, Stafford, Miller, and possibly Gaustad. Could probably throw Myers and Ehrhoff in there now too.

Pominville and Vanek are currently 9th and 11th in league scoring respectively. Miller is coming off of a Vezina and while has struggled a little, also battled concussion/neck issue. While he has struggled in a few games he has looked phenomenal in others (see Nashville/Toronto). This is why a reliable backup is necessary. Just look at Boston. They make it work perfectly. Trading Miller would weaken the team no matter what is coming back. Gaustad is a UFA after this year and if you ask me IF he is resigned it should be for less and he should center the 4th line to provide leadership and faceoff skillz. Myers is an untouchable and Ehrhoff is a solid top-4 with a great cap-hit.

So that leaves us with Roy and Stafford, who I am perfectly content with trading one, the other, or both. Its a 'shakeup' that this team needs. I just don't understand where this 'Fire Sale' is coming from?

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12-18-2011, 10:15 PM
  #28
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roy and stafford are our richards and carter. lose em. fill holes. we do better.

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Old
12-18-2011, 10:30 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by fightclubber25 View Post
roy and stafford are our richards and carter. lose em. fill holes. we do better.
Agreed.

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12-18-2011, 10:33 PM
  #30
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On a positive note, I think Vanek has been the most consistent and dangerous forward that we've had in awhile. Pommer has been even more reliable as well.

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12-18-2011, 10:47 PM
  #31
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Stafford has been better over the last six games: 2 G, 3 A, 5 pts, +4 (and for those who love hit stats, 8 hits in those games). People are now just lumping him with Roy because everyone else is doing it and it has become habit.

Peas and carrots. Peanut butter and jelly. Roy and Stafford.

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12-18-2011, 10:56 PM
  #32
Jame
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Originally Posted by BeantownSabresclown View Post


Hooray for sanity!
hooray for the last 4 seasons!!!

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Originally Posted by BuffaloSabskis View Post
How I feel right now is that total rebuild talk is crazy at this point and that this team is a good team if they are healthy. I feel I have not seen what this team is fully capable of yet. With that said I really do think Roy/Stafford or both should be traded if they can get some key players for them and if they continue to play poorly Ruff may need to go for a further shake up.
yea, let's atleast get another 2-3 seasons of missed playoffs/1st round exits under our belts before we consider anything as drastic as saying "this whole entire structure sucks"

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Originally Posted by fightclubber25 View Post
roy and stafford are our richards and carter. lose em. fill holes. we do better.
Roy is

when i read threads like this i think... yup Buffalo Sabre fans deserve some of the blame.


Last edited by vcv: 12-19-2011 at 12:04 AM.
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Old
12-19-2011, 06:43 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
hooray for the last 4 seasons!!!



yea, let's atleast get another 2-3 seasons of missed playoffs/1st round exits under our belts before we consider anything as drastic as saying "this whole entire structure sucks"



Roy is

when i read threads like this i think... yup Buffalo Sabre fans deserve some of the blame.
Jame, so you don't think that making three major additions in the offseason was a "drastic change?" Also, why not see how these three additions fit into a healthy team? I know, I know, strange thought.

Let's put it this way..

1. New and enthusiastic owner comes in. Says the cup is on a three year plan.

2. New owner approves 3 major acquisitions to the team in the offseason.

3. Team suffers injuries, which makes it hard to evaluate offseason changes to the team.

4. The new owner can either panic, and fire the coach and general manager, or he can decide to wait a bit to see how things pan out.

5. For the new owner, it has been much less than a year. It makes sense to take the wait and see attitude because it gives him the opportunity to make a more accurate appraisal of the situation. Smart businessmen do not panic, they make rational decisions.

6. If the team does not play well even when healthy, then you can more accurately assess the blame. You also have a larger pool of evidence to make the decision on.

Just a thought...

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Old
12-19-2011, 07:17 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
Jame, so you don't think that making three major additions in the offseason was a "drastic change?" Also, why not see how these three additions fit into a healthy team? I know, I know, strange thought.

Let's put it this way..

1. New and enthusiastic owner comes in. Says the cup is on a three year plan.

2. New owner approves 3 major acquisitions to the team in the offseason.

3. Team suffers injuries, which makes it hard to evaluate offseason changes to the team.

4. The new owner can either panic, and fire the coach and general manager, or he can decide to wait a bit to see how things pan out.

5. For the new owner, it has been much less than a year. It makes sense to take the wait and see attitude because it gives him the opportunity to make a more accurate appraisal of the situation. Smart businessmen do not panic, they make rational decisions.

6. If the team does not play well even when healthy, then you can more accurately assess the blame. You also have a larger pool of evidence to make the decision on.

Just a thought...
I have a question.
How is it considered panic on the part of an owner to replace a coach and GM that have been here for 13 seasons and appear to be well on there way to yet another season of a subpar product?
If anything I would think that it's not panic at all but more of a philosophical decision.

Terrry Pegula:
"Winning is not just a goal, it's a belief"

Approaching half a season, I don't quite see the coach and GM following that philosophy, do you?

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Old
12-19-2011, 07:20 AM
  #35
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Ruff goes before Regier....that's just how things work....at this point it looks like Ruff is just trying to make me eat crow...I keep getting edged towards the thought that the players want ruff out...with the dominant play they had early and the horrible play they have now...why is the difference night and day?

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Old
12-19-2011, 10:27 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by static80 View Post
I have a question.
How is it considered panic on the part of an owner to replace a coach and GM that have been here for 13 seasons and appear to be well on there way to yet another season of a subpar product?
If anything I would think that it's not panic at all but more of a philosophical decision.

Terrry Pegula:
"Winning is not just a goal, it's a belief"

Approaching half a season, I don't quite see the coach and GM following that philosophy, do you?
Do you remember the way Pegula answered the question about what would he do if the team started slow like they did last year?

To go from that answer to firing Ruff and/or Regier with all the injuries that have happened would be panicking.

Especially if Pegula had a sizable hand in signing Leino and Ehrhoff.

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Old
12-19-2011, 10:28 AM
  #37
Jame
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Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
Ruff goes before Regier....that's just how things work....at this point it looks like Ruff is just trying to make me eat crow...I keep getting edged towards the thought that the players want ruff out...with the dominant play they had early and the horrible play they have now...why is the difference night and day?
Ruff/Regier is a package. The either both get fired, or both stay...

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12-19-2011, 10:38 AM
  #38
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Do you remember the way Pegula answered the question about what would he do if the team started slow like they did last year?

To go from that answer to firing Ruff and/or Regier with all the injuries that have happened would be panicking.

Especially if Pegula had a sizable hand in signing Leino and Ehrhoff.
I hate that people would consider it panicking. Both Lindy and Darcy have had too long to build contenders. These half hearted 10 minute hockey games are for the birds.

14 years of this ferris wheel is getting stale, dull, and boring. I'd like to get off and try a new ride.

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Old
12-19-2011, 10:41 AM
  #39
HiddenInLight
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Ruff/Regier is a package. The either both get fired, or both stay...
Because it is in their contracts that you can't fire one without the other right?

The fact is, that if it looks like regier will lose his job I'm betting he fires Ruff to see if a different coach can get his team to play a full hockey game.

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12-19-2011, 10:42 AM
  #40
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I hate that people would consider it panicking. Both Lindy and Darcy have had too long to build contenders. These half hearted 10 minute hockey games are for the birds.

14 years of this ferris wheel is getting stale, dull, and boring. I'd like to get off and try a new ride.
It wouldn't be panicking if he made the move in the off season.

But, Pegula said that he wanted to see what they could do under new ownership. To not even give them 12 months under new ownership would be panicking especially given the patience talk that Ted Black was shoveling lately.

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Old
12-19-2011, 10:47 AM
  #41
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Because it is in their contracts that you can't fire one without the other right?

The fact is, that if it looks like regier will lose his job I'm betting he fires Ruff to see if a different coach can get his team to play a full hockey game.
Interesting take. I've never really believed the idea that Regier would never, ever fire Lindy. Number one, no GM worth his salt would take a coaching change off the table under any circumstances. (Maybe Darcy isn't worth his salt.) Number two, as you wrote, Darcy is a good soldier who does what he's told in order to stick around. If ownership wants a coaching change, Darcy will do it.

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12-19-2011, 10:59 AM
  #42
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Im all for the blaming roy theory that everyone appears content with because he is underperforming for what we expect a 1C to do however I dont see where anyone expects to find a better replacement? at 4 million per year and 70+ point potential he IS the best option out there and hes on our team lol. We're giving Leino more more than Roy for leino-like production...Connelly is getting more...

1C guys for 4 million dont grow on trees, and for all those wanting a stastny for roy type swap...guess what you still need to shed another 2 million+ to even make that LATERAL deal..

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Old
12-19-2011, 02:09 PM
  #43
Jame
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Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
Jame, so you don't think that making three major additions in the offseason was a "drastic change?" Also, why not see how these three additions fit into a healthy team? I know, I know, strange thought.
no. the offseason included nothing drastic. we just over paid for a LWer. And made 2 solid moves for the blueline in the short and long term.

Quote:
Let's put it this way..

1. New and enthusiastic owner comes in. Says the cup is on a three year plan.

2. New owner approves 3 major acquisitions to the team in the offseason.

3. Team suffers injuries, which makes it hard to evaluate offseason changes to the team.

4. The new owner can either panic, and fire the coach and general manager, or he can decide to wait a bit to see how things pan out.

5. For the new owner, it has been much less than a year. It makes sense to take the wait and see attitude because it gives him the opportunity to make a more accurate appraisal of the situation. Smart businessmen do not panic, they make rational decisions.

6. If the team does not play well even when healthy, then you can more accurately assess the blame. You also have a larger pool of evidence to make the decision on.

Just a thought...
1. Problem is, the owner is continuing the previous plan... which makes this really a 7 year plan that started in the 2007 offseason

2. Major acquisitions? Richards would've been a major acquisition. I would say the new owner approved the spending of boatloads of money. Regier made some acquisitions... 1 of which was a highly quesitonable decision at the time, and only looks worse now.

3. Team injuries, mostly to secondary or tertiary players. Miller injury was a big deal, but he was playing like **** before it anyways... Myers was a big deal, but he was playing like **** before hand anyways.... Vanek, Pommer, Stafford, Roy, Goose... all healthy, and the chosen new leadership of the team.... big time fail in that department.

4. Waiting it out, and seeing how things turned out LAST YEAR, was the worst decision of the decade (worse then the Briere/Drury debacle IMO)

5. the new owner should be more than familiar with the 5 years worth of data on the subject. pushing the problem down the line only makes it worse.

6. i have a large enough pool of information

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12-19-2011, 02:59 PM
  #44
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Ignoring whether DR and/or LR should go (there's other threads for that), and ignoring whether certain talent should be traded to acquire (ideally) better, or minimally, different, talent (there are other threads for that as well), I agree with Doak's post.

However, injuries aside, it is discouraging to see rookies frequently playing with more desire / effort than e.g., Stafford (I acknowledge his very recent improvement). It just compounds the inury issues, nevermind the leadership message it sends.

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Old
12-19-2011, 03:04 PM
  #45
enrothorne
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Complacent players.

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Old
12-19-2011, 03:55 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by fightclubber25 View Post
roy and stafford are our richards and carter. lose em. fill holes. we do better.
cool. so all we have to do is sign somebody like Jagr and trade for guys like Voracek, Simmonds and Schenn. should be no problem.

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Old
12-19-2011, 04:01 PM
  #47
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cool. so all we have to do is sign somebody like Jagr and trade for guys like Voracek, Simmonds and Schenn. should be no problem.
Don't forget go down in flames to draft JVR or wind up with Giroux from an early 20's overall first rounder. Or is there a way to make Poile/Nashville the Sabres farm club too? Or wait for a blundering owner to let their playoff game-breaker walk away? Simple!

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12-19-2011, 04:04 PM
  #48
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Complacent players.
They might have been complacent at first. I doubt they are any more. More like beat down into a deep funk.

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Old
12-19-2011, 04:07 PM
  #49
Jame
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Don't forget go down in flames to draft JVR or wind up with Giroux from an early 20's overall first rounder. Or is there a way to make Poile/Nashville the Sabres farm club too? Or wait for a blundering owner to let their playoff game-breaker walk away? Simple!
Or we could just accept that the past 5 years is enough... and we can start over, in a new direction... and along that path, who knows what could happen.

1. We COULD go down in Flames and it COULD lead to drafting a franchise defining player like a Toews.
2. We COULD strip the roster down, and with a rich ass owner, we COULD poach from other teams like the Flyers have.
3. We COULD be the team that spends 50 million on a 30 year game breaker that some other team's blundering owner let's walk away.

What we SHOULDN'T do... is spend any more time on the current path... we've been on it for too long.

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12-19-2011, 04:15 PM
  #50
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Or we could just accept that the past 5 years is enough... and we can start over, in a new direction... and along that path, who knows what could happen.

1. We COULD go down in Flames and it COULD lead to drafting a franchise defining player like a Toews.
2. We COULD strip the roster down, and with a rich ass owner, we COULD poach from other teams like the Flyers have.
3. We COULD be the team that spends 50 million on a 30 year game breaker that some other team's blundering owner let's walk away.

What we SHOULDN'T do... is spend any more time on the current path... we've been on it for too long.
Hey, I was all about retool starting last year prior to the Pegula Bounce they got from the new ownership rumors/announcement. The problem is that the new ownership is still looking at this as though they've just taken over and aren't taking into account the debacle this franchise has been on ice since the co-caps fiasco.

That said, they're not out of things right now and it wouldn't hurt them to shop for in-season acquisition(s) that aren't in the realm of "Roy/Stafford, Sekera and a 2nd" type proposals that have become the new Ryder, Halak and a 2nd running joke. Team building due to cap considerations is probably best done in the summer. Can they make a cheap move now? It seems like they SHOULD. My issue with Regier over his tenure is that he should be looking to add and instead is waiting for the market to be set before bidding. He doesn't trend-set, does not get there first with the best.... so the issues will likely remain.

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