Everyone brings up Turris' 46 points in 137 games as a reason to why he's a bust, but his production for the ice time he gets is actually not that bad.
-Leclaire and the second for Vermette (the second round... Lehner)
-Michalek, Cheechoo and the second round for Heatley (The New York Islanders receive the San Jose Sharks 2010 2nd round pick (via Ottawa) for Andy Sutton. Ottawa acquired this pick from San Jose, along with Milan Michalek, and Jonathan Cheechoo for Dany Heatley and a 2010 5th round pick. )
And now? You have the great young goalie and one of the best scorers in NHL. Where is Vermette, where is Heatley?
btw, IMO Murray had to take Cheechoo it was not about his wish to get him.
-Leclaire and the second for Vermette (the second round... Lehner)
-Michalek, Cheechoo and the second round for Heatley (The New York Islanders receive the San Jose Sharks 2010 2nd round pick (via Ottawa) for Andy Sutton. Ottawa acquired this pick from San Jose, along with Milan Michalek, and Jonathan Cheechoo for Dany Heatley and a 2010 5th round pick. )
And now? You have the great young goalie and one of the best scorers in NHL. Where is Vermette, where is Heatley?
btw, IMO Murray had to take Cheechoo it was not about his wish to get him.
Sutton was a rock for us in the back. That year he had quite a few highlight reel hits too.
"Erik Karlsson, just 21, has taken the Ottawa Senators by storm, blossoming into an offensive powerhouse, a veteran defenseman and a leader among his peers this season.
None of this comes as a surprise to general manager Bryan Murray.
Everyone brings up Turris' 46 points in 137 games as a reason to why he's a bust, but his production for the ice time he gets is actually not that bad.
He's also the type of people that should score more with PP time without question. Elite shooter.
To be fair, people that actually got to view him in his draft year knew pretty quick there was a good chance he'd be one of the top 5 players from that loaded draft.
I read a tale from a random scout who was featured in an article at the U18s....he was asked if he had one recollection of seeing a player at that tournament that just clicked for him. He said Karlsson, and that he saw him and immediately knew he was going places real fast.
I was absolutely blown away the first time I watched RNH in a recording of the Ivan Hlinka final when no player on the ice was even close to his ability.
Last edited by Minister of Offence: 12-19-2011 at 04:01 PM.
I could see it changing, but right now we got fleeced...
How Phoenix now? They got a prospect that likely wont play for them for a while, and a pick. We got a player who is going to play tomorrow.
How can this not be an absolute win for us right now. In the future when either pick or player makes it to the NHL we can re evaluate, but logically, for the NOW 1 NHL player is better than potential.
How Phoenix now? They got a prospect that likely wont play for them for a while, and a pick. We got a player who is going to play tomorrow.
How can this not be an absolute win for us right now. In the future when either pick or player makes it to the NHL we can re evaluate, but logically, for the NOW 1 NHL player is better than potential.
It's the point you just replied that makes it clear that David Rundblad already is a 50-60 point Dman with the upside for more to more than just a couple people here.
How Phoenix now? They got a prospect that likely wont play for them for a while, and a pick. We got a player who is going to play tomorrow.
How can this not be an absolute win for us right now. In the future when either pick or player makes it to the NHL we can re evaluate, but logically, for the NOW 1 NHL player is better than potential.
They got way more value for a struggling, hold out than anybody could have imagined that they would.
They got way more value for a struggling, hold out than anybody could have imagined that they would.
Pierre McGuire imagined they'd get a top prospect and a pick for him. I suppose the guy that watches some of the most hockey of anyone and is ingrained in the hockey community doesn't count as anyone though right?
He was a 21 year old that led his team in even strength points per minute played. Struggling for a guy with Joe Sakic upside? Sure.
They got way more value for a struggling, hold out than anybody could have imagined that they would.
But that's just it, they didn't get more value than everyone thought. They got more value than you thought, and that fans thought, if anything this should just serve as a reminder of how little we know compared to what actually happen behind closed doors.
It's also a reflection of how much you and others overvalue our own 21 year old struggling defenceman. Other GM's aren't homer fanboys, they're businessmen who evaluate talent with a clearer eye. If you take a step back and look, potential is just another letter that starts with 'P' and both players have it, Rundblad wasn't a good NHL player, and he wasn't getting better over the season. That's not to say he wont be great, but he isn't right now at all, it's all Sens fan hype.
Obviously to the 10 teams vying, and three teams competing in the end, his value was there, that's just logic. The team that got him obviously gave the most value, again logic, because that's what it takes to win a trade by default.
The fact that there was market competition should serve to prove to you that you were way off on your valuation, along with 'anybody' who felt the way you did. At this point you should probably just be happy to have learned that lesson rather than continuing to harp on a value issue that has been proven to not exist.
They got way more value for a struggling, hold out than anybody could have imagined that they would.
Both teams got what they wanted & that is how most NHL trades work out. You may not think so & everybody has an opinion about it one way or the other. It can be argued all day long who paid more but we won't really know for about 3 to 5 yrs when Rundblad finally makes it into the Phoenix lineup full time & how Turris does over the next few yrs here in Ottawa. It could end up being an even trade & no one loses. They could both end up making contributions to their team & help their teams win & that is what is most important to both franchises. They could also both crap out, we won't know for a while at the moment it's all opinions.
But that's just it, they didn't get more value than everyone thought. They got more value than you thought, and that fans thought, if anything this should just serve as a reminder of how little we know compared to what actually happen behind closed doors.
It's also a reflection of how much you and others overvalue our own 21 year old struggling defenceman. Other GM's aren't homer fanboys, they're businessmen who evaluate talent with a clearer eye. If you take a step back and look, potential is just another letter that starts with 'P' and both players have it, Rundblad wasn't a good NHL player, and he wasn't getting better over the season. That's not to say he wont be great, but he isn't right now at all, it's all Sens fan hype.
Obviously to the 10 teams vying, and three teams competing in the end, his value was there, that's just logic. The team that got him obviously gave the most value, again logic, because that's what it takes to win a trade by default.
The fact that there was market competition should serve to prove to you that you were way off on your valuation, along with 'anybody' who felt the way you did. At this point you should probably just be happy to have learned that lesson rather than continuing to harp on a value issue that has been proven to not exist.
To think we were going to get off on the wrong foot.
Our resident insider, who need not be questioned, said the other day it could be argued they turned down a better offer. Apparently Florida was right up there when word started hitting about this on Friday....they would have assets to offer.
100 dollars is a lot of money to some people, teams that make a lot (IE. stock the cupboard well)...it's not as much to them. We paid a price to get a player we wanted, and I think his risk and potential are being overstated and underrated, respectively.
It's the point you just replied that makes it clear that David Rundblad already is a 50-60 point Dman with the upside for more to more than just a couple people here.
amirite?
I know, I mean I get it, we get a shiny new player and we want to imagine him being a world-beater, but when you take a step back and look at the situation, he is not currently an NHL calibre player at all, and maybe he never will be. Not our problem anymore, we traded him for an NHL player with equal potential who can play the game now, in a position we have a need for.
All that matters now is that we give Turris our support as fans and hope he develops the way he was projected to. Remember, If we're not allowed to write of a 21 year old Rundblad, we should probably not write off 22 year old Turris.
I know, I mean I get it, we get a shiny new player and we want to imagine him being a world-beater, but when you take a step back and look at the situation, he is not currently an NHL calibre player at all, and maybe he never will be. Not our problem anymore, we traded him for an NHL player with equal potential who can play the game now, in a position we have a need for.
All that matters now is that we give Turris our support as fans and hope he develops the way he was projected to. Remember, If we're not allowed to write of a 21 year old Rundblad, we should probably not write off 22 year old Turris.
Yeah, I guess I get it. But clearly the rebuild is over.
I was absolutely blown away the first time I watched RNH in a recording of the Ivan Hlinka final when no player on the ice was even close to his ability.
After seeing Parise literally dominate the World Juniors in front of the entire world, I couldn't figure out how he dropped so low.
Same goes for Kopitar when he singlehandedly brought Slovenia into the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS and scored a bunch of points when every team they played had to know that he was the only threat at the ice. And this when he was still at the WJC age.
What's bizarre about my examples is that they were top tier international tournaments.
To think we were going to get off on the wrong foot.
Our resident insider, who need not be questioned, said the other day it could be argued they turned down a better offer. Apparently Florida was right up there when word started hitting about this on Friday....they would have assets to offer.
100 dollars is a lot of money to some people, teams that make a lot (IE. stock the cupboard well)...it's not as much to them. We paid a price to get a player we wanted, and I think his risk and potential are being overstated and underrated, respectively.
Exactly. You're smart, lets be friends...
Just think, the other day I got an infraction for flipping out at you and now look at us...
After seeing Parise literally dominate the World Juniors in front of the entire world, I couldn't figure out how he dropped so low.
Same goes for Kopitar when he singlehandedly brought Slovenia into the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS and scored a bunch of points when every team they played had to know that he was the only threat at the ice. And this when he was still at the WJC age.
What's bizarre about my examples is that they were top tier international tournaments.
What's unique about my example is he dominated with hockey sense and vision, not the elite skating ability and release that he actually had to go with it. It's different when the hockey sense is 11 on 10. It translates....and so do all the other elite skills. Hockey sense is the difference between a talent like Filatov not hacking it, and a very good talent in a guy like Toews becoming one of the best centers in hockey.
He was physically a better hockey player than everyone else talent wise....but he dominated and made it look easy, it looked like he was playing a video game in slow motion with cheat codes in hand. It looks like that to some degree in the NHL.
Kopitar would have gotten the respect had he been a little bit more mainstream. American/Canadian/Swedish, top 5, Finnish maybe lower, Czech/Slovak, a little lower further...Slovenian, not top 10.
