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Could an "old arena game" be profitable for the NHL

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Old
12-19-2011, 12:34 PM
  #26
Brodie
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it's not viable for the Sens to ever play a game there, even if they could charge $1000 a head

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12-19-2011, 01:00 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
it's not viable for the Sens to ever play a game there, even if they could charge $1000 a head
No but it still is a viable arena sure maybe not for nhl but for ohl and concerts it does very well.

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Old
12-19-2011, 01:23 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I think a game at Maple Leaf Gardens could potentially be an amazing event. The tickets would be so costly that they could probably even make it a black-tie affair with celebrities in the crowd, turn it into a big production like the Winter Classic but classier. Put the Leafs and Habs out there in O6 era jerseys and play nothing but organ music over the game.

I don't really see a downside to that concept, other than that they may have already converted the building beyond the point of no return.
“Mattamy Home Ice” which will be on the 3rd floor of the "Peter Gilgan Athletic Centre at the Gardens" will have seating for 2,600.

I think those seats are actually bleachers. Maybe it has potential for a charity event, but I don't think the revamped venue would work for the NHL.

http://www.ryerson.ca/news/media/spo...gac/index.html

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Old
12-19-2011, 01:40 PM
  #29
sull1102
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Matthews Arena

So I don't post much, but when I do...

Matthews Arena in Boston would easily be a HUGE success here, do the B's vs. The Have or Leafs and it'll work out. Northeastern just redid the place with new seating etc, new scoreboard and lobby. It only seats 4,666, but it would work out if you add a couple events around it. This city is very much into history and the oldest still in use rink fits the bill quite nicely.

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Old
12-19-2011, 02:21 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by sull1102 View Post
So I don't post much, but when I do...

Matthews Arena in Boston would easily be a HUGE success here, do the B's vs. The Have or Leafs and it'll work out. Northeastern just redid the place with new seating etc, new scoreboard and lobby. It only seats 4,666, but it would work out if you add a couple events around it. This city is very much into history and the oldest still in use rink fits the bill quite nicely.
With so few seats it would be very hard to make it a huge success you would have to charge a massive amount for tickets.

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Old
12-19-2011, 02:30 PM
  #31
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It would have been awesome if Buffalo was able to open up the Aud a few months before being demolished for a one-off game. That place was sitting empty for almost 15 years, and the rink boards from 1996 were still in the place. That would have been awesome.

Unfortunately, I don't think really any place would truly work. Tampa playing a game in the Thunderdome (where the Rays play) could work, but it's still an indoor, domed stadium.

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Old
12-19-2011, 04:47 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Hoser View Post
Madison Square Garden is 43 years old. Nassau Coliseum is 39. Rexall Place (née Northlands Coliseum) is 37. Joe Louis Arena is 32. The Saddledome is 28.

Matthews Arena is 101, and seats less than 5,000. Windsor Arena is 87, and also seats less than 5,000. The Stampede Corral is 61, and seats about 8,000 incl. standing room.

We're talking facilities that are much, much older and smaller than the Red Wings, Islanders and Oilers' homes.



Yes, people mostly want new (and more) bathrooms and new amenities; at least that's what I've gleaned from the comments from every single season ticket holder in any city I've ever talked to. It seems to be all about the selection of beer offered by the stadium's concessions kiosks and how quickly said booze can be pissed away in a bathroom.

And no, no one really gives a crap about playing in an old venue ("history" as you put it). If the teams thought this was profitable they never would have moved to new facilities in the first place.
This sums it up. I want decent concessions, and don't want to wait in line for them. And I don't want to wait in line to take a piss.

95% of people want this. The 5% who give a crap about the history of the place aren't going to pay enough $ to make it profitable.

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12-19-2011, 04:52 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by saskriders View Post
Just a thought, could the NHL make a lot of money if once a year they had a game in an old arena (with higher prices to compensate for less seats).

"Old" rinks that are still around (according to a quick wikipedia check)
Pacific Coliseum
Stampede Corral
The Forum
Windsor Arena (Detroit Played 1 year there waiting for Olympia)
Izod Center
Ottawa Civic Centre
Maple Leaf Gardens* (new arena in old building)
No, I will not pay even five dollars to go back to the swamp! And I pay good money for my tix in Newark!

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Old
12-19-2011, 11:42 PM
  #34
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Old venue? No. Small venue? Maybe.

I'd like to see NHL teams play a game at a local college or junior arena. Less seats=more intimate.

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Old
12-20-2011, 12:23 AM
  #35
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Old venue? No. Small venue? Maybe.

I'd like to see NHL teams play a game at a local college or junior arena. Less seats=more intimate.
Again, the problem here is where's the profit?

And ANOTHER issue.. What about STHs? You can't play a game in an arena where you can't give tickets to all the STHs.

Ignoring that issue.. how is the team going to jack up the ticket prices enough for that one game to cover the fact that there's less seats? And what about the premium seating? A lot of older/smaller arenas don't have luxury boxes.

I don't see any legitimate profit opportunities to hold a game in an older/smaller arena. There's a damn good reason teams spend tons of money to build a new (larger) arena.

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Old
12-20-2011, 11:24 AM
  #36
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Exhibition games might be the more realistic way to go here. I remember the Flyers played a pre-season game at the Spectrum before it was demolished. You'd also need to have an interesting enough venue for people to pay premium prices and most of the ones listed so far probably don't have the history to fit (Izod or Ottawa Civic Centre). The 'new' Maple Leaf Gardens might be one, Matthews in Boston might be another. It's an interesting idea though and would probably work under the right circumstances. I know I'd certainly be more willing to pay premium prices for this compared to a Winter Classic. Of course, all else being equal the owners would rather fill a 40,000 seat football or baseball stadium with premium paying customers but someday the novelty will probably wear off on outdoor games and they will look around for other marketing opportunities.

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Old
12-20-2011, 11:51 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by f2d View Post
This sums it up. I want decent concessions, and don't want to wait in line for them. And I don't want to wait in line to take a piss.

95% of people want this. The 5% who give a crap about the history of the place aren't going to pay enough $ to make it profitable.
There are some older arenas where there is decent concessions and bathrooms now with that said no it would not be profitable but for a preseason games it would not be a bad idea.

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Old
12-20-2011, 12:42 PM
  #38
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UMass basketball started doing this last year, holding a game at the old Curry Hicks Cage where they played for like 60 years until 1993.

http://www.umassathletics.com/blog/2...its-glory.html

It was a hit and they did it again this season.

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Old
12-20-2011, 01:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Inkling View Post
Exhibition games might be the more realistic way to go here.
Ya, ya see thats always a drag though. Exhibition games are basically meaningless beyond playing for pride and usually just turn into shinny. Coaches, Managers' dont wanna run the risk of injury to their starters & either sit them altogether or limit their ice time. Pre-season, with guys fighting for jobs' wouldnt work either because youd have about 20 rookies & minor leaguers' out there, and who wants to pay big bucks to watch some sort of hybrid "Heritage Game" like that in some antiquated "Our Lady of Spain" arena somewhere?. Then as mentioned earlier, what about the STH's if its a regular season game?. About the only thing you could do with that concept would be a Canada Cup / World Cup, USA vs. Team Canada or some such event however because of the costs & ultimately loss of revenues if you played in a smaller older venue it wouldnt be feasible.

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Old
12-21-2011, 08:48 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Sergei Goldenhands View Post
I don't see how it would attract more fans to the games, as most of those places are now (sadly) dumps.

BTW, this is what's left of the Forum
Yay, my leech protection works!

The OP may have been referring to the LA Forum, which is still standing and could host hockey if needed.

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Old
12-24-2011, 05:20 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoser View Post
Madison Square Garden is 43 years old. Nassau Coliseum is 39. Rexall Place (née Northlands Coliseum) is 37. Joe Louis Arena is 32. The Saddledome is 28.

Matthews Arena is 101, and seats less than 5,000. Windsor Arena is 87, and also seats less than 5,000. The Stampede Corral is 61, and seats about 8,000 incl. standing room.

We're talking facilities that are much, much older and smaller than the Red Wings, Islanders and Oilers' homes.



Yes, people mostly want new (and more) bathrooms and new amenities; at least that's what I've gleaned from the comments from every single season ticket holder in any city I've ever talked to. It seems to be all about the selection of beer offered by the stadium's concessions kiosks and how quickly said booze can be pissed away in a bathroom.

And no, no one really gives a crap about playing in an old venue ("history" as you put it). If the teams thought this was profitable they never would have moved to new facilities in the first place.
Your post makes no sense. We're talking about a one-off game here, not moving back into old arenas for good. a SINGLE game in an old barn would be an EVENT and would attract people for that reason - like the Winter Classic does (or used to when it was actually a new thing) with outdoor games.

The Chicago Cubs' stadium and Fenway Park are both older than most of the arenas we're talking about, and guess what, they both held NHL events recently.

Also as I said, size of the arena doesn't matter either. Do you know how much Winter Classic tickets go for? You could charge 5 times more for a venue that was smaller. This is basic supply and demand. Small supply - big demand, meaning BIG prices for tickets. Profits for a game like this would most likely be FAR more than profits for a regular game.

Let's take the Bruins for example - say a game at Matthews Arena which has been brought up. Even though the arena is tiny at less than 5,000 seats, as long as the tickets are priced at least 4x normal tickets (and they would probably cost even more than that) then you can make just as much money as a game in a roughly 20k-seat TD Garden game.

And yes, there are definitely more than 5,000 rich people in Boston so don't give me any of this "nobody could afford those prices" crap. And this "nobody cares about history" is also complete crap. Just because you don't care about history doesn't mean other people don't.

And yes, some people are even so unspoiled they wouldn't even mind subpar bathrooms!

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Old
12-24-2011, 12:00 PM
  #42
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My post makes no sense? Speak for yourself...

To continue to use Boston as an example, people didn't go to the outdoor game because it was held at Fenway: they went because it was outside. That was the 'draw', the 'gimmick', not the stadium. The stadium was an ancillary concern. They could have held it at Gillette Stadium, it wouldn't have made much of a difference other than the fact Fenway is well within Boston itself and Gillette Stadium is more than halfway to Providence.

To hold a game at Matthews Arena would make the arena itself the 'gimmick'. The entire focus of the game would be on the arena. I ask you: what's the 'draw' here? How does the team and the league market this hypothetical game?

Even assuming you could convince 4,600 people to pay 4x the normal ticket prices, why would they for this 'event'? You're operating on the assumption that reducing the supply of tickets by having a game at Matthews Arena will have no effect on demand, or will in fact increase demand because of exclusivity. I'd argue demand would go down given the game would be held in a 'subpar' facility. You say "some people are even so unspoiled they wouldn't even mind subpar bathrooms!" and yet you assume you could charge people $500-$2000 a ticket and have them put up with it. Those "5,000 rich people in Boston" are probably the MOST likely to complain about crappy bathrooms, small concourses and such.

Ultimately I ask you this: what's the point? The point of the outdoor games is to provide the fans with a unique experience (read: it's OUTDOORS) and because it's unique the league is able to latch on to it and market the hell out of it as a unique 'event'. The outdoor games are meant to evoke the experiences of people playing hockey outside in their youth. What's the point in going back to Matthews Arena? For the sake of going back to where the team played in the first place? Few people will remember the Bruins playing in Matthews Arena. There's no connection to their youth like there is an outdoor game. The only marketable aspect of this game is nostalgia, but nostalgia for what? How many living Bruins fans experienced the team having played there?

The fact is the Bruins moved out of that arena to the original Garden because the Garden was a bigger, better facility. They moved out of the original Garden and into TD Garden because it is an even better facility.


I think if the Bruins wanted to play an exhibition game there that would be fine but a regular season game is a no-go because it's ultimately pointless beyond some abstract notion of nostalgia, never mind the ****storm that would ensue in only being able to accommodate a third of the season ticket holders...

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Old
12-25-2011, 05:43 PM
  #43
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The Forum in LA still hosts concerts so the seating/concessions must still be usable. The Lakers played a preseason game there either last season or the season before and if I recall correctly, the locker room facilities were so dilapidated and dirty, they changed fully at their practice facility and took a bus to the Forum in their game uniforms.

The Dodgers had a preseason game at the Memorial Coliseum(where they played when they first came to LA) and sold out at about 100,000 people even with parking being a nightmare.

That being said I think people would most definitely go in LA. I would. My first game was Kings vs. Flames there in 1989 and I'd love to go back.

Does is cost a lot to put in ice for one game though?

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Old
12-25-2011, 07:21 PM
  #44
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What about a preseason intrasquad game? We're talking about an event that is often held at the practice rink w/o admission charge. If you could get fans to pay $5-$10 for a ticket to see the scrimmage at an old arena, you're already ahead.

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Old
12-25-2011, 07:26 PM
  #45
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I don't see how this idea could ever work since there is really no incentive or any upside to it. Hockey arenas are not like baseball stadiums in that they don't have the same ambiance. Plus, playing in an old arena wouldn't look any different to the television audience than playing in the current arenas do. The Winter Classic works because its an atmospheric thing. This idea wouldn't have the same effect.

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Old
12-25-2011, 07:44 PM
  #46
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I don't see how this idea could ever work since there is really no incentive or any upside to it. Hockey arenas are not like baseball stadiums in that they don't have the same ambiance. Plus, playing in an old arena wouldn't look any different to the television audience than playing in the current arenas do. The Winter Classic works because its an atmospheric thing. This idea wouldn't have the same effect.
Okay, but there's no tv for an intrasquad scrimmage and any admission charge you could get for one would be an improvement over zero.

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Old
12-27-2011, 02:03 PM
  #47
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Le Colisee...

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Old
12-27-2011, 11:42 PM
  #48
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Ricoh Coliseum

Owned by MLSE

Seats between 8 and 9 thousand, with standing room, according to wikipedia.

Leafs get concessions, but must charge between 3 to 4 times current face value of ACC tickets to break even, because there are only 1/3 people buying concessions.

Would Leaf fans pay that?

Why would they?

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Old
12-28-2011, 01:00 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
It would have been awesome if Buffalo was able to open up the Aud a few months before being demolished for a one-off game. That place was sitting empty for almost 15 years, and the rink boards from 1996 were still in the place. That would have been awesome.
It really is too bad they didn't keep the place up. It was badly water damaged inside when they tore it down. They probably still could've done it around 2001 or so, but with the money it would've taken even to get the place up to shape for one game, there would be no point unless they charged insane amounts. That's what would be awesome. A 'last arena' game, not just a 'they played here a long time ago' game. Nice idea, but I don't see it anywhere.

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Old
12-29-2011, 02:51 PM
  #50
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I woud love to see the Lightning play the Panthers at the trop... i mean THUNDERDOME!

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