HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Should Burke Should Get Fired If He Pushes For a Wilson Extension?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-19-2011, 11:02 PM
  #51
baton elevated
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 158
vCash: 500
Burke does get credit for bringing in a lot of the young talent on this team, but don't forget the impact that Nonis plays in the heirarchy. I believe he has more to do with putting the deals together, and Burke finalizing them. That is why Burke didn't need to be present on the first day of free agency. Nonis was minding the store, and in very capable hands.

baton elevated is offline  
Old
12-19-2011, 11:23 PM
  #52
GardinerExpress
Registered User
 
GardinerExpress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hell
Posts: 344
vCash: 500
if wilson is resigned, god should come outta the skies and strike him down, we've suffered long enough!

GardinerExpress is offline  
Old
12-19-2011, 11:25 PM
  #53
anderson3133
Registered User
 
anderson3133's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSchennWalker View Post
if wilson is resigned, god should come outta the skies and strike him down, we've suffered long enough!
I think you mean re-signed. His resignation is what you want, judging by your comment.

anderson3133 is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 01:52 AM
  #54
AaronRStanley
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Barrie, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 33
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
What is there to doubt? Do you really think Burke can just spend millions of MLSE's money without any consent?
Colby Armstrong

AaronRStanley is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 02:08 AM
  #55
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 6,763
vCash: 500
I sometimes think people forget just how bad it was before Burke got here.

No real marquee prospects, reckless misuse of draft picks, poor drafting, horrible free agent signings, poor cap management, etc etc etc. Where we are now, is not even comparable to where we were before Burke got here.

He's done a lot to improve the foundation and the future of the team; why some choose to ignore that, is beyond me.

Vancouver fans say that he ruined their team, and that he's going to do the same to us and the 10 year olds in all of us have appreciably had our heads turned. The most sensible ones will realize that we are better off than we have been in a very long time.

Am I the only one that understands and views this thing as a process? A team-building process? So much of the ground work is already here, but ultimately it remains an unfinished project that we are right in the middle of. Kind of like right in the middle of building a house. You can't judge that house, nor the builders, until it's a lot closer to completion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolboss View Post
A good GM would have realized he need a coaching change after third year of failing to deliver, or is this all about him being LOYAL to his buddy. If thats the case than some leafs fan here need to wake up.
I've always stood right down the middle when it comes to the Burke-Wilson thing. I've fully understood both sides, although I think the #FireWilson brigade typically overreacts at the slightest.

But in this market and with this team, it's all about impressions. While most/many have chosen to view Burke's persistence on staying with Wilson as "dumb loyalty", I on the other hand have viewed it as Burke ultimately putting his hand up and acknowledging responsibility for this team's poor results. Kind of like him saying:

"I know the results have been poor, but that's my fault for not putting together a good enough team and not the coach's fault. "

He's taking the blame and putting it solely on his own shoulders. It might not be much, and it might not really matter to you, but do you know who it does matter to?

Hockey people - people in the NHL. It's the little things that Burke does, like the above, and like his Xmas trade freeze, and like his handling of No Trade Clauses, that make him one of the managers that people strive to work and play under.

Tak7 is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 04:25 AM
  #56
DonthaveaCOWEN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 341
vCash: 500
Didn't read through whole thread. I'm curious... I think Burke's done a good job retooling the Leafs but there is simply no excuse for Ron Wilson still being employed. In his years of losing with the Leafs, the Islanders have gone through god knows how many coaches...Cory Clouston was fired for a well-over .500 coaching record, Boudreau, Carlyle, heck even Julien was 1 goal away from being fired last season.

Yet somehow grumpy old Wilson has kept his job and Burke has recently called him his "star" on the team. Oh but Wilson didn't have the talent to work with...well neither does Dave Tippett. Anyways, its clear I don't like Ron Wilson one bit but I guess that is a good thing as a Sens fan as it fuels the rivalry for me even more.

Anyways, my question...if the Leafs recent slide continues (and the Leafs actually fall below .500) and Wilson is fired, would you guys be receptive to the *short-term/quick-fix* solution of hiring Pat Quinn for the remainder of the year. Obviously it is not a long term solution as the big irishman is old, but I could see that being a real shot in the arm for your team for the rest of the year.

DonthaveaCOWEN is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 04:41 AM
  #57
RomanianLeafs
Registered User
 
RomanianLeafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Romania
Posts: 2,331
vCash: 500
there is no way i would fire burke, but man oh man he needs to fire his buddy..i love the work BB did this years, the roster we have, the staff we have, the prospects we have, but keeping ron is going to be the mistake that will cost his job in the future, not this year, but after next season`s end,if i remember right that`s when his contract expires..

RomanianLeafs is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 04:49 AM
  #58
Duke Silver
Truce?
 
Duke Silver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: St. John's, NL
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,949
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonthaveaCOWEN View Post
Didn't read through whole thread. I'm curious... I think Burke's done a good job retooling the Leafs but there is simply no excuse for Ron Wilson still being employed. In his years of losing with the Leafs, the Islanders have gone through god knows how many coaches...Cory Clouston was fired for a well-over .500 coaching record, Boudreau, Carlyle, heck even Julien was 1 goal away from being fired last season.

Yet somehow grumpy old Wilson has kept his job and Burke has recently called him his "star" on the team. Oh but Wilson didn't have the talent to work with...well neither does Dave Tippett. Anyways, its clear I don't like Ron Wilson one bit but I guess that is a good thing as a Sens fan as it fuels the rivalry for me even more.

Anyways, my question...if the Leafs recent slide continues (and the Leafs actually fall below .500) and Wilson is fired, would you guys be receptive to the *short-term/quick-fix* solution of hiring Pat Quinn for the remainder of the year. Obviously it is not a long term solution as the big irishman is old, but I could see that being a real shot in the arm for your team for the rest of the year.
We had a lot of success pre-lockout with Quinn, but I don't feel he would mesh well with our younger players. He chose veterans over young players back in the early 2000s, and his stint with the Oilers wasn't promising either.

The best solution is to promote Dallas Eakins from the Marlies. What he's been able to do with our prospects is fantastic work. He has a familiarity with our players, is a fitness nut, and holds players accountable without publicly shaming them, as Wilson has been inclined to do. He's the perfect candidate for us. He's our Bylsma/Guy Boucher.

Duke Silver is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 05:16 AM
  #59
hullsy47
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,864
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanianLeafs View Post
there is no way i would fire burke, but man oh man he needs to fire his buddy..i love the work BB did this years, the roster we have, the staff we have, the prospects we have, but keeping ron is going to be the mistake that will cost his job in the future, not this year, but after next season`s end,if i remember right that`s when his contract expires..
well i think there are 10 other gm's that could have done the same job as burke ...money dictated alot of the aquisitions ...not just brains
peter cherelli traded kessel ......but asved 5 million a year and still has a cup ring and seguin.......bad trade ?i d hire peter cherelli or ken holland in a heartbeat .even dale tallon
.burke couldnt fire wilson last year .....it ll be a point in which may come back to bite his butt under the new owners.....
one thing i will llike about the new ownership .......market driven ...to make MLSE more profits .....they gotta more money ......leafs nation next generation wont buy junk

hullsy47 is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 05:56 AM
  #60
MajorityRules
Sior Gaisgeil
 
MajorityRules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,650
vCash: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
I sometimes think people forget just how bad it was before Burke got here.

No real marquee prospects, reckless misuse of draft picks, poor drafting, horrible free agent signings, poor cap management, etc etc etc. Where we are now, is not even comparable to where we were before Burke got here.

He's done a lot to improve the foundation and the future of the team; why some choose to ignore that, is beyond me.

Vancouver fans say that he ruined their team, and that he's going to do the same to us and the 10 year olds in all of us have appreciably had our heads turned. The most sensible ones will realize that we are better off than we have been in a very long time.

Am I the only one that understands and views this thing as a process? A team-building process? So much of the ground work is already here, but ultimately it remains an unfinished project that we are right in the middle of. Kind of like right in the middle of building a house. You can't judge that house, nor the builders, until it's a lot closer to completion.




I've always stood right down the middle when it comes to the Burke-Wilson thing. I've fully understood both sides, although I think the #FireWilson brigade typically overreacts at the slightest.

But in this market and with this team, it's all about impressions. While most/many have chosen to view Burke's persistence on staying with Wilson as "dumb loyalty", I on the other hand have viewed it as Burke ultimately putting his hand up and acknowledging responsibility for this team's poor results. Kind of like him saying:

"I know the results have been poor, but that's my fault for not putting together a good enough team and not the coach's fault. "

He's taking the blame and putting it solely on his own shoulders. It might not be much, and it might not really matter to you, but do you know who it does matter to?

Hockey people - people in the NHL. It's the little things that Burke does, like the above, and like his Xmas trade freeze, and like his handling of No Trade Clauses, that make him one of the managers that people strive to work and play under.
Just had to say, great post!

MajorityRules is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 08:55 AM
  #61
hockeyfanz
Registered User
 
hockeyfanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,135
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddGillForever View Post
Still amazed at how many people here are happy with Burke, love this great future he's building, etc. Sorry, he's accomplished nothing so far. The team is still on the outside looking in. The same problems exist today that existed three years ago. This young core isn't bad, but again, how promising is it, really, when this still doesn't look like a playoff team, let alone a contender.

Miss the playoffs again and MLSE should can Burke and Wilson. I can't believe anyone would argue against this. Burke is now well into his supposed five year plan with no real improvement in the only area that counts, namely making the playoffs. How long of this do you people want to take? Any other team in the league would have fired Wilson after the horrible start last year, let alone yet another playoff miss.
I don't understand it either. He has built his legacy based on a "promising future"....nothing tangible. I agree the youth he has acquired is decent and the direction taken is a good one....but really his on-ice product is not that good. Some nice pieces. Definitely fans over-rate some of the trades, acquisitions etc....The team is still a bubble team 4 years later. Ron Wilson is still the coach with the same horrible problems...(IE PK, inconsistencies like coming out of the gate flat)..

I don't know how much longer you let Burke/Wilson spin their wheels but I definitely get the sense that the fanbase is still content with mediocrity. I hope the new ownership isn't. I want to see a Cup final/winner before I freaking die. Is that too much to ask?

hockeyfanz is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 09:03 AM
  #62
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
I don't understand it either. He has built his legacy based on a "promising future"....nothing tangible. I agree the youth he has acquired is decent and the direction taken is a good one....but really his on-ice product is not that good. Some nice pieces. Definitely fans over-rate some of the trades, acquisitions etc....The team is still a bubble team 4 years later. Ron Wilson is still the coach with the same horrible problems...(IE PK, inconsistencies like coming out of the gate flat)..

I don't know how much longer you let Burke/Wilson spin their wheels but I definitely get the sense that the fanbase is still content with mediocrity. I hope the new ownership isn't. I want to see a Cup final/winner before I freaking die. Is that too much to ask?
I love the "I'm a better Leaf fan than everyone else" approach and the "Anyone but Burke would have the team as a Cup contender" all rolled into one.

mooseOAK* is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 09:03 AM
  #63
Giuseppe Sallo
ELE-VAT-ED
 
Giuseppe Sallo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oakville, Ontario.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,517
vCash: 500
Burkie= B+
Wilson= D
-

Only one option: FIRE RON WILSON!

Giuseppe Sallo is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 09:05 AM
  #64
Chandrashekhar Limit
ORANJE 4 LYFE
 
Chandrashekhar Limit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Waterloo, ON
Country: Bangladesh
Posts: 15,939
vCash: 500
No he shouldn't.

He should be told that an RW extension isn't happening.

If he's so butt hurt, he'll quit himself.

Which he won't do cuz he isn't stupid.

Chandrashekhar Limit is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 09:12 AM
  #65
hockeyfanz
Registered User
 
hockeyfanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,135
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
I love the "I'm a better Leaf fan than everyone else" approach and the "Anyone but Burke would have the team as a Cup contender" all rolled into one.
Yeah....stupid me not being happy with an 8th place finish from a guy getting paid 3M dollars a year to be the best effin GM in hockey. Not only that, having come to this board to read about his genius everyday from people like you and when someone calls his genius into question because of the mediocrity being displayed, having to put up with nonsense posts like yours above. I'm not sure where the "I'm better than everyone else" comes from but if demanding a winning product makes me better than everyone else...so be it. I have wasted enough of my waking hours watching garbage for the last 7/8 years. And many more before that in the 80's and some of the 90's.

Sorry, if I'm not taken by the impressive speed game of the Leafs who try and outscore their opponents 7-6 almost every night. It's really not going to win them many playoff rounds...if they can even make it. Are we happy that perhaps the Leafs will have a top 10 scorer this year? Is that the goal of this team?

hockeyfanz is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 09:17 AM
  #66
Drmckool
Truculence!
 
Drmckool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: From the T.O
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,585
vCash: 500
I'm pretty sure next years head coach is set up in the Ricoh.

Drmckool is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 09:19 AM
  #67
Dayjobdave
Registered User
 
Dayjobdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,789
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonthaveaCOWEN View Post
Didn't read through whole thread. I'm curious... I think Burke's done a good job retooling the Leafs but there is simply no excuse for Ron Wilson still being employed. In his years of losing with the Leafs, the Islanders have gone through god knows how many coaches...Cory Clouston was fired for a well-over .500 coaching record, Boudreau, Carlyle, heck even Julien was 1 goal away from being fired last season.

Yet somehow grumpy old Wilson has kept his job and Burke has recently called him his "star" on the team. Oh but Wilson didn't have the talent to work with...well neither does Dave Tippett. Anyways, its clear I don't like Ron Wilson one bit but I guess that is a good thing as a Sens fan as it fuels the rivalry for me even more.

Anyways, my question...if the Leafs recent slide continues (and the Leafs actually fall below .500) and Wilson is fired, would you guys be receptive to the *short-term/quick-fix* solution of hiring Pat Quinn for the remainder of the year. Obviously it is not a long term solution as the big irishman is old, but I could see that being a real shot in the arm for your team for the rest of the year.
So you're an Ottawa fan recommending we follow the Islanders' example and bring back a former coach who's in retirement as a quick fix?

Dayjobdave is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 09:19 AM
  #68
Dark Passenger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Don Draper View Post
Look, Burke's not an idiot.

He knows what kind of backlash there will be if he hands out a contract extension before the playoff picture is settled. Talks of there being "negotiations" is simply part of an ongoing process of discussion. There's a reason why it's negotiation, and not a deal.

And yes he does have autonomy, but he knows full well not to walk into a board room looking for that extension until playoffs are secure this year. He knows this. I know this. You know this. Why kid ourselves into thinking he's deliberately trying to screw this team?
Could be a case of IF they were going to extend Wilson, what kind of money/term is he looking for. Either way, not sure why its even been talked about at this point in time, far too many other issues to worry about for both Burke and Wilson.

Bob McKenzie makes a good point in this story. If Burke didnt feel it necessary to extend Wilson in the summer, then what has changed since then? The timing does seem a little odd. Put this story to bed and say Wilson is safe until end of the season and it will be addressed then.

Dark Passenger is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 09:58 AM
  #69
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Yeah....stupid me not being happy with an 8th place finish from a guy getting paid 3M dollars a year to be the best effin GM in hockey. Not only that, having come to this board to read about his genius everyday from people like you and when someone calls his genius into question because of the mediocrity being displayed, having to put up with nonsense posts like yours above. I'm not sure where the "I'm better than everyone else" comes from but if demanding a winning product makes me better than everyone else...so be it. I have wasted enough of my waking hours watching garbage for the last 7/8 years. And many more before that in the 80's and some of the 90's.

Sorry, if I'm not taken by the impressive speed game of the Leafs who try and outscore their opponents 7-6 almost every night. It's really not going to win them many playoff rounds...if they can even make it. Are we happy that perhaps the Leafs will have a top 10 scorer this year? Is that the goal of this team?
"I'm better than everyone else" comes from you saying that you want a Cup as if everyone else doesn't care. You certainly can't be that dense.

The problem is that you have very high standards but not enough knowledge to realize how difficult it is to meet your high standards. Plenty of people like that, you aren't alone.

Yes, offensive skill wins playoff rounds. It's the trap teams that focus on defence that typically don't.

mooseOAK* is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 10:40 AM
  #70
leafsfuture
Registered User
 
leafsfuture's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,544
vCash: 500
Burke wont get fired unless Peddie isnt satisfied with Burke's reason for wanting Wilson back. Knowing Peddie, Burke wont get dumped unless the ship is 3/4 of the way to the bottom of the ocean floor.

leafsfuture is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 11:36 AM
  #71
L Corncrick
NHL Outsider
 
L Corncrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Planet Funk
Country: St Vincent and the Grenadines
Posts: 636
vCash: 500
Burke is only half way through his deal. He's made smart hockey decisions most of the time. He's not going anywhere.

Better get used to it, baby.

L Corncrick is offline  
Old
12-21-2011, 04:18 AM
  #72
pucky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,862
vCash: 500
Burke should be fired, regardless. He's failed. They won't make the playoffs and they're not much better than before. The offense is better but that's about it. They still can't play D and the upgrades at various positions are only a tad better. They had a huge drop off after their stint being near the top of the league but have since come down to earth.

They have been destroyed by good teams like Boston and continue to struggle against the better teams. At least, they're not getting blown out by such teams, though. But, Burke has had years to turn the ship around and there's only modest improvement.

They should look at someone else who doesn't have such an incestuous relationship with his coach.

pucky is offline  
Old
12-21-2011, 05:45 AM
  #73
MajorityRules
Sior Gaisgeil
 
MajorityRules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,650
vCash: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Yeah....stupid me not being happy with an 8th place finish from a guy getting paid 3M dollars a year to be the best effin GM in hockey.
You said it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Not only that, having come to this board to read about his genius everyday from people like you and when someone calls his genius into question because of the mediocrity being displayed, having to put up with nonsense posts like yours above.
Stop coming here. Problem solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
I'm not sure where the "I'm better than everyone else" comes from but if demanding a winning product makes me better than everyone else...so be it. I have wasted enough of my waking hours watching garbage for the last 7/8 years. And many more before that in the 80's and some of the 90's.
Find a new hobby sunshine

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Sorry, if I'm not taken by the impressive speed game of the Leafs who try and outscore their opponents 7-6 almost every night. It's really not going to win them many playoff rounds...if they can even make it. Are we happy that perhaps the Leafs will have a top 10 scorer this year? Is that the goal of this team?
Some of us are enjoying watching a young sniper come into his own. If you can't, that's your problem

MajorityRules is offline  
Old
12-21-2011, 08:16 AM
  #74
leaferbeliever
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Yeah....stupid me not being happy with an 8th place finish from a guy getting paid 3M dollars a year to be the best effin GM in hockey. Not only that, having come to this board to read about his genius everyday from people like you and when someone calls his genius into question because of the mediocrity being displayed, having to put up with nonsense posts like yours above. I'm not sure where the "I'm better than everyone else" comes from but if demanding a winning product makes me better than everyone else...so be it. I have wasted enough of my waking hours watching garbage for the last 7/8 years. And many more before that in the 80's and some of the 90's.

Sorry, if I'm not taken by the impressive speed game of the Leafs who try and outscore their opponents 7-6 almost every night. It's really not going to win them many playoff rounds...if they can even make it. Are we happy that perhaps the Leafs will have a top 10 scorer this year? Is that the goal of this team?
Excellent post!! I agree with everything you've said here. I'll be 45 next month and I have yet to see my team hoist a cup or even make it to the final, yet other friends and family members have seen their repective teams win multiple cups and return to the SCF many times. Up until the last couple of seasons I have been patient, lately not so much. And if I voice my displeasure I'm called a "whiner" or "not much of a fan"

leaferbeliever is offline  
Old
12-21-2011, 08:49 AM
  #75
Tracey19
Registered User
 
Tracey19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 114
vCash: 500
IMO Burke will not be getting fired, he has done a great job since he got to Toronto. He has a good young core of players mixed with some good veterans, this team has come a long way since he took over. Rebuilding isnt a short process like we all want it to be. As for Wilson i think that he has done a good job, is he the top coach out there ... no, but i think he has done well in toronto. He has a young team to work with and they definately show improvment each year. I think they should at least see where they end up in the standings. This year i think they will be a 7th or 8th seed team, see where they land and make your decision then.

Tracey19 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:41 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.