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Should Burke Should Get Fired If He Pushes For a Wilson Extension?

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Old
12-21-2011, 05:10 PM
  #76
threeGo
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Nonis.

Would you find Nonis a more suitable GM for the Leafs if Burke continues to support Wilson and gives him an extension? The way I see it right now is that if Burke resigns Wilson, then both of them have to go if we are not in the playoffs. But if Burke fires Wilson and brings up Eakins or someone else then I'd give him 1 more year to make the playoffs and if he doesn't then Burke has to go.

It's well known that Nonis was the one that did most of the work in bringing in Phaneuf and the lupul trade. I see him as a great fit and we'd still have one of the more active GM's in the league.

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12-21-2011, 05:12 PM
  #77
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Anyone with an opinion on this is full of ****.

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12-21-2011, 05:12 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by threeGo View Post
Would you find Nonis a more suitable GM for the Leafs if Burke continues to support Wilson and gives him an extension? The way I see it right now is that if Burke resigns Wilson, then both of them have to go if we are not in the playoffs. But if Burke fires Wilson and brings up Eakins or someone else then I'd give him 1 more year to make the playoffs and if he doesn't then Burke has to go.

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12-21-2011, 05:33 PM
  #79
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still can't believe that alot of fans in leaf nation believe the Leafs had a good enough team to make the playoffs the last 2-3 years, because they were not. it's even very debatable that this team is good enough yet here we sit in a playoff position for the first time in 6-7 years yet the majority want to fire the coach... just don't understand what goes through peoples minds.

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12-21-2011, 05:48 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
still can't believe that alot of fans in leaf nation believe the Leafs had a good enough team to make the playoffs the last 2-3 years, because they were not. it's even very debatable that this team is good enough yet here we sit in a playoff position for the first time in 6-7 years yet the majority want to fire the coach... just don't understand what goes through peoples minds.
Ya really. Two years removed from finishing 2nd last in the entire league, and now 40% of the season complete, the Leafs are sitting in 7th. I guess the haters won't stop complaining until they are gone.

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12-22-2011, 10:14 AM
  #81
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Dont think he will be fired, or should based on that one move...but if he does offer an extension, any talk of the Leafs being a meritocracy or any different from the muskoka 5 days would be laughable.

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12-22-2011, 10:42 AM
  #82
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Wilson has shown nothing other than being a dick. So yeah Burke would be showing more poor judgement and would have to go.


Last edited by Confucius: 12-22-2011 at 11:05 AM.
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Old
12-22-2011, 03:59 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Wilson has shown nothing other than being a dick. So yeah Burke would be showing more poor judgement and would have to go.
Its easily as simple as that. I mean Im okay with Wilson getting the full season. If you were in Burke's position, you could understand giving his longtime friend the most opportunity possible to prove his worth. But there comes a point where you gotta start pointing the finger above the coach, so Burke if he is smart will only extend Wilson with some good results...otherwise his days are numbered too.

Not sure why he is pumping Ron's tires at the moment though. The Leafs are in a dogfight for 8th place...probably until the end of the year. He has no reason to not wait until the end of year.

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12-22-2011, 04:06 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Its easily as simple as that. I mean Im okay with Wilson getting the full season. If you were in Burke's position, you could understand giving his longtime friend the most opportunity possible to prove his worth. But there comes a point where you gotta start pointing the finger above the coach, so Burke if he is smart will only extend Wilson with some good results...otherwise his days are numbered too.

Not sure why he is pumping Ron's tires at the moment though. The Leafs are in a dogfight for 8th place...probably until the end of the year. He has no reason to not wait until the end of year.
If you're trying to give someone every chance to achieve, giving them outward encouragement is a great help. I would guess that Burke will be hoping the best for Ron Wilson right up to and after the day he has to fire him.

Burke is running a financially successful hockey operation and I would also guess that the marketing numbers and survey data they have would support that. Burke's bosses aren't going to submarine him over something minor (from a financial perspective) like re-signing the most winning active coach in the league.

We can get upset about the product on the ice week to week but it helps to realize that the people who make decisions see things from a radically different perspective.

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12-22-2011, 04:24 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by L Corncrick View Post
If you're trying to give someone every chance to achieve, giving them outward encouragement is a great help. I would guess that Burke will be hoping the best for Ron Wilson right up to and after the day he has to fire him.

Burke is running a financially successful hockey operation and I would also guess that the marketing numbers and survey data they have would support that. Burke's bosses aren't going to submarine him over something minor (from a financial perspective) like re-signing the most winning active coach in the league.

We can get upset about the product on the ice week to week but it helps to realize that the people who make decisions see things from a radically different perspective.
Are you suggesting that Brian Burke has something to do with the financial success of the Leafs? I can see it if he gets the team deep into the post-season otherwise I call BS.

And also don't make things more complicated than it is....don't kid yourself..winning is what keeps people employed as coach and GM...nothing else matters.

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12-22-2011, 04:39 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Are you suggesting that Brian Burke has something to do with the financial success of the Leafs? I can see it if he gets the team deep into the post-season otherwise I call BS.

And also don't make things more complicated than it is....don't kid yourself..winning is what keeps people employed as coach and GM...nothing else matters.
Yes to the question (Burke is deeply involved in the marketing and image projection of the team). I disagree concerning the second paragraph.

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12-22-2011, 04:59 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Its easily as simple as that. I mean Im okay with Wilson getting the full season. If you were in Burke's position, you could understand giving his longtime friend the most opportunity possible to prove his worth. But there comes a point where you gotta start pointing the finger above the coach, so Burke if he is smart will only extend Wilson with some good results...otherwise his days are numbered too.

Not sure why he is pumping Ron's tires at the moment though. The Leafs are in a dogfight for 8th place...probably until the end of the year. He has no reason to not wait until the end of year.
You really aren't sure why? Team's in 8th spot, right around the expectations with a significant amount of injuries. I don't agree, but the logic should be easy to understand.

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Old
12-22-2011, 05:02 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
still can't believe that alot of fans in leaf nation believe the Leafs had a good enough team to make the playoffs the last 2-3 years, because they were not. it's even very debatable that this team is good enough yet here we sit in a playoff position for the first time in 6-7 years yet the majority want to fire the coach... just don't understand what goes through peoples minds.
Growing up and watching the Leafs in the 80s, I saw some really bad teams, yet they did not miss the playoffs more than a couple years in a row. Now, not to make the playoffs in 6 or 7 years is unacceptable. It could be argued that this is the worst time in Leaf history (but it is not the worst teams in Leaf history...not by a long shot).

A good coach will get bad teams in playoffs...atleast some of the time. Playoff hockey is really exciting and you can always hope for a good run. Look at how teams this year are doing. I expected Florida and Ottawa to be at the bottom of the standings...but they are doing better than expected. I want to be able to say the Leafs are doing better than expected, but I can't...and that is saying alot because they unexpectly have 2 of the top point getters in the league.

To continue making excuses by saying the players are not good enough, or the goalie has let them down, or they are too young...is also unacceptable. Wilson has been here long enough (too long) and his "system" is not working. The poor defense is a system issue.

I thought the new assistant coaches had fixed some of the concerns but the team is doing it's usual December nosedive. It has to be concerning that there has been a trend for the team to do poorly...get out of the playoff picture and then play really well and give fans hope for "next year".

For me, the really sad part is that my 7 year old son has never seen Leaf playoffs and he expects the Leafs to loose every night.

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Old
12-22-2011, 05:06 PM
  #89
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If people here don't think Burke has done anything, then you haven't been paying attention. I think some are starting to forget already how bad and thin this team and prospect pool were when Burke took over, and at that time Toronto was still on a downslide.

Even Burke, Holland, Tallon, or whomever can't turn **** into gold overnight, it takes time and patience. We're just starting to see some growth now, but it takes a little patience, lets not ruin it now.

And no, I'm not happy being in 8th, but its a process and it takes some time. I want this team to be a contender for a few years, not trade schenn and kadri, get some great pieces and be a contender for 1-2 and be done with it. I want it to be sustaining, which it seems to me is what Burke is starting to build.

We just need a reminder of times when Stajan was our first line center, Ponikarovski was a top 6 forward and Kyle Wellwood was our hope for the future to realize how awful it was and realize that this takes time. Patience is key, and it may not pay off this season, but I have faith it will pay off soon.

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12-22-2011, 05:14 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi View Post
Growing up and watching the Leafs in the 80s, I saw some really bad teams, yet they did not miss the playoffs more than a couple years in a row. Now, not to make the playoffs in 6 or 7 years is unacceptable. It could be argued that this is the worst time in Leaf history (but it is not the worst teams in Leaf history...not by a long shot).

A good coach will get bad teams in playoffs...atleast some of the time. Playoff hockey is really exciting and you can always hope for a good run. Look at how teams this year are doing. I expected Florida and Ottawa to be at the bottom of the standings...but they are doing better than expected. I want to be able to say the Leafs are doing better than expected, but I can't...and that is saying alot because they unexpectly have 2 of the top point getters in the league.

To continue making excuses by saying the players are not good enough, or the goalie has let them down, or they are too young...is also unacceptable. Wilson has been here long enough (too long) and his "system" is not working. The poor defense is a system issue.

I thought the new assistant coaches had fixed some of the concerns but the team is doing it's usual December nosedive. It has to be concerning that there has been a trend for the team to do poorly...get out of the playoff picture and then play really well and give fans hope for "next year".

For me, the really sad part is that my 7 year old son has never seen Leaf playoffs and he expects the Leafs to loose every night.
at the beginning of the year the leafs managements goal would have been to make the playoffs weather thats 8th or 5th or whatever. this is the first time in 6-7 years we've been in a playoff position after 33 games. how do you fire the coach for having the team on pace to meet the goals of the organization. now should the leafs continue to struggle and drop say 4-5 points out of the playoffs then yes go ahead and fire him thats acceptable. but when were finally in a playoff spot after 6-7 years of no playoffs is not the right time to fire the coach. new doesn't always mean better. the team might take a step backwards trying to learn a new system who knows. a bad defensive record doesn't mean a coach should be fired wins and loses are all that matters.

will also say with the parity in the league the worse teams in the NHL are not as bad as the worst teams 20 years ago.

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12-22-2011, 05:34 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
at the beginning of the year the leafs managements goal would have been to make the playoffs weather thats 8th or 5th or whatever. this is the first time in 6-7 years we've been in a playoff position after 33 games. how do you fire the coach for having the team on pace to meet the goals of the organization. now should the leafs continue to struggle and drop say 4-5 points out of the playoffs then yes go ahead and fire him thats acceptable. but when were finally in a playoff spot after 6-7 years of no playoffs is not the right time to fire the coach. new doesn't always mean better. the team might take a step backwards trying to learn a new system who knows. a bad defensive record doesn't mean a coach should be fired wins and loses are all that matters.

will also say with the parity in the league the worse teams in the NHL are not as bad as the worst teams 20 years ago.
Agreed that while we are in the playoff position MIGHT be the wrong time to fire a coach (I would have fired him last year), I'm concerned it is just a matter of time. It's been too long and I still think the current playoff drought is unacceptable.

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12-23-2011, 08:19 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by L Corncrick View Post
Yes to the question (Burke is deeply involved in the marketing and image projection of the team). I disagree concerning the second paragraph.
You are not firmly entrenched in reality..sorry....The Leafs have been one of the most successful sports franchises in North America and top 3 in the NHL for many many years now.....and you think Brian Burke is responsible for the financial success of the team? Cmon man..how can anybody take you seriously....and can you tell me what else matters for a coach and GM other than winning?

Did you start watching professional sports last week? You think winning coaches and/or GMs get fired for winning? Name me one.

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12-23-2011, 08:30 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
I love the "I'm a better Leaf fan than everyone else" approach ...
quoted for truth

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12-23-2011, 09:41 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Pepsi View Post
Growing up and watching the Leafs in the 80s, I saw some really bad teams, yet they did not miss the playoffs more than a couple years in a row. Now, not to make the playoffs in 6 or 7 years is unacceptable. It could be argued that this is the worst time in Leaf history (but it is not the worst teams in Leaf history...not by a long shot).

A good coach will get bad teams in playoffs...atleast some of the time. Playoff hockey is really exciting and you can always hope for a good run. Look at how teams this year are doing. I expected Florida and Ottawa to be at the bottom of the standings...but they are doing better than expected. I want to be able to say the Leafs are doing better than expected, but I can't...and that is saying alot because they unexpectly have 2 of the top point getters in the league.

To continue making excuses by saying the players are not good enough, or the goalie has let them down, or they are too young...is also unacceptable. Wilson has been here long enough (too long) and his "system" is not working. The poor defense is a system issue.

I thought the new assistant coaches had fixed some of the concerns but the team is doing it's usual December nosedive. It has to be concerning that there has been a trend for the team to do poorly...get out of the playoff picture and then play really well and give fans hope for "next year".

For me, the really sad part is that my 7 year old son has never seen Leaf playoffs and he expects the Leafs to loose every night.
You do realize that in the 80's only 5 of 21 teams in the league missed the playoffs, whereas now 14 of 30 teams miss the playoffs, right?

I also grew up watching the leafs in the 60's, shared season tickets in the 80's (oww, my eyes) and believe that they're in better shape now than they have been since Ballard took over. (With a nod of my cap toward how well they played in the early 90's under Fletcher and Burns.)

Firing Burke would be a disastrous, unfortunate, ill considered and incorrect decision, and it will not be made by MLSE.

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Old
12-23-2011, 10:00 AM
  #95
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Anyone with an opinion on this is full of ****.


Doesn't that go without saying on an opinion board?

Mind you that is no different than watching TSN, Sportsnet or your local sports broadcast.

My full of **** opinion is that he should be extended only if he gets them into the playoffs.

But I still won't like him, but that's kind of irrelevant.

EDIT: And we know it isn't the coach that gets the team into the playoffs anyway it is the players. Coaches are secondary to the results. No blame no credit.

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12-23-2011, 10:02 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Pepsi View Post
To continue making excuses by saying the players are not good enough, or the goalie has let them down, or they are too young...is also unacceptable. Wilson has been here long enough (too long) and his "system" is not working. The poor defense is a system issue.

I thought the new assistant coaches had fixed some of the concerns but the team is doing it's usual December nosedive. It has to be concerning that there has been a trend for the team to do poorly...get out of the playoff picture and then play really well and give fans hope for "next year".
Our powerplay jumped 23 spots from last year to this year. Our "defensive system" has lead to an improve gf/ga ratio at even strength and is top 10 in the league. Our even strength goals against is average or better.

And we did this with 3 starting goalies with about 100 games of NHL experience coming into the season.

And we did it with a revolving door due to injuries.

And we did it with one of the youngest teams in the league.

Where's the excuse? Everything said is true.

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12-23-2011, 10:05 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
You are not firmly entrenched in reality..sorry...

Cmon man..how can anybody take you seriously...

Did you start watching professional sports last week?
I see you are airing your grievances well, my friend.

Happy Festivus

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12-23-2011, 10:07 AM
  #98
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EDIT: And we know it isn't the coach that gets the team into the playoffs anyway it is the players. Coaches are secondary to the results. No blame no credit.
Speaking of airing grievances.

Happy Festivus ULF.

Playoffs or bust.

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12-23-2011, 10:07 AM
  #99
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Burke is supposed to be evaluated on one decision he hasn't even made yet now is it? Get real!


Last edited by leafspring*: 12-23-2011 at 10:50 AM.
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12-23-2011, 10:14 AM
  #100
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Speaking of airing grievances.

Happy Festivus ULF.

Playoffs or bust.
You know if people would just accept the coach has some responsibility of getting the team into the playoffs and other results ...

RW certainly takes credit for his 600+ wins, so why do we continuously read "you can't blame Wilson with the players he's had"?

I can't forget RW's comment about "You people up there" talking about Canadians while he was coach of the Sharks. Sorry, to me that is his true opinion about his ex-Country.

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