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Old
12-20-2011, 10:37 AM
  #1
anonFOX
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question re: injuries

our line-up is 50% rookie tonight if I'm not mistaken.

my question is; who does Rochester use when their top 2 lines are called up?- some guys down at the local rink?

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12-20-2011, 10:43 AM
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IIRC rochester also has a team to recall players from.

My question is at what point does enroth play wing?

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12-20-2011, 10:45 AM
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I kinda wondered myself...they probably draw from the ECHL, who draws from...?

Hey, a few more defensive injuries and Rivet will get called up to Rochester, right? He can say "what's up" to Wade Redden in Hartford or at home in Rochester

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12-20-2011, 10:51 AM
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They have an ECHL affiliate which they can send players down to but I believe they've cleaned them out (of Buffalo signed players atleast). Fienhage and Boychuk were the only guys down there at one point, now they're both with Rochester. Then I believe they can also sign players from other ECHL teams who are not property of another AHL or NHL team. This is where I get a little foggy, I'm not sure if these are strict try-out deals or what. I'm sure others can fill in the details tehre.

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12-20-2011, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalo87 View Post
They have an ECHL affiliate which they can send players down to but I believe they've cleaned them out (of Buffalo signed players atleast). Fienhage and Boychuk were the only guys down there at one point, now they're both with Rochester. Then I believe they can also sign players from other ECHL teams who are not property of another AHL or NHL team. This is where I get a little foggy, I'm not sure if these are strict try-out deals or what. I'm sure others can fill in the details tehre.
Yea they definitely cleaned out those players.

To be honest, the Amerks have been playing shorthanded; just as Portland was for parts of the last few years, and just like the Amerks were doing in the last year before the affiliation broke. Its complete crap.

There is absolutely no reason for a pro sports team to play games shorthanded. Take into consideration how much money Pegula now has and that he owns the team there is even less reason for it. Its pathetic.

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12-20-2011, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
I kinda wondered myself...they probably draw from the ECHL, who draws from...?

Hey, a few more defensive injuries and Rivet will get called up to Rochester, right? He can say "what's up" to Wade Redden in Hartford or at home in Rochester
First, it'd really help if the Amerks and Whale Pack ever faced each other more than say once every 4 years on average.

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12-20-2011, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by WoahBoy View Post
First, it'd really help if the Amerks and Whale Pack ever faced each other more than say once every 4 years on average.
Whale Pack...I...like it!

Seriously, changing the name midsession last year was so wtf-eriffic. Only with Howard Baldwin. You know, the guy that torpedo'd the Penguins 10 years ago. I don't want him around any hockey team, much less so for any potential rebirth of the Whalers

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12-20-2011, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by MillerFan1 View Post
Yea they definitely cleaned out those players.

To be honest, the Amerks have been playing shorthanded; just as Portland was for parts of the last few years, and just like the Amerks were doing in the last year before the affiliation broke. Its complete crap.

There is absolutely no reason for a pro sports team to play games shorthanded. Take into consideration how much money Pegula now has and that he owns the team there is even less reason for it. Its pathetic.
Teams in the AHL are affiliate teams.
They exist to serve their parent club and wouldn't exist without a parent club.
Every single affiliate club will play shorthanded at some point because the needs of the parent club are more important.

How could any parent club stockpile enough players so that 10+ injuries occurring concurrently would have no effect on the affiliate club?
It's not possible.
There is a limit on the number of contracts an organization can have (50), so there's room for about four extra players (23 + 23).
Even if you circumvent the contract limit by using AHL contracts, you're not going to get incredibly talented players most of the time, so you're solving one problem and creating another ("WHY DO THEY GIVE US SUCH ****** PLAYERS!?!?!1").

Fans of AHL teams need to accept this reality.
You're not at the top of the food chain, so it's just the way it is.
Deal with it.

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12-20-2011, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Teams in the AHL are affiliate teams.
They exist to serve their parent club and wouldn't exist without a parent club.
Every single affiliate club will play shorthanded at some point because the needs of the parent club are more important.

How could any parent club stockpile enough players so that 10+ injuries occurring concurrently would have no effect on the affiliate club?
It's not possible.
There is a limit on the number of contracts an organization can have (50), so there's room for about four extra players (23 + 23).
Even if you circumvent the contract limit by using AHL contracts, you're not going to get incredibly talented players most of the time, so you're solving one problem and creating another ("WHY DO THEY GIVE US SUCH ****** PLAYERS!?!?!1").

Fans of AHL teams need to accept this reality.
You're not at the top of the food chain, so it's just the way it is.
Deal with it.
I know you're pretty good with contract stuff, could you better explain the basis for an AHL club getting guys from the ECHL (such as Rankin). I know obviously if they're Buffalo prospects with Gwinett, it's self explanatory. But beyond that, are these guys basically on AHL try-out contracts or what?

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12-20-2011, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Buffalo87 View Post
I know you're pretty good with contract stuff, could you better explain the basis for an AHL club getting guys from the ECHL (such as Rankin). I know obviously if they're Buffalo prospects with Gwinett, it's self explanatory. But beyond that, are these guys basically on AHL try-out contracts or what?
Yes, if they are not your property, they are signed to PTO's (professional try-out contracts).

Quote:
Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
I kinda wondered myself...they probably draw from the ECHL, who draws from...?
The CHL (Central Hockey League) or wherever they can find someone with any hockey experience, basically.
DIII or any lower level European league will do (I'm talking like second and third divisions).

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12-21-2011, 03:51 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
Whale Pack...I...like it!

Seriously, changing the name midsession last year was so wtf-eriffic. Only with Howard Baldwin. You know, the guy that torpedo'd the Penguins 10 years ago. I don't want him around any hockey team, much less so for any potential rebirth of the Whalers
I'm starting to get the impression that his son is doing more for the current AHL organization anyways. But if he loved the Whalers so much as he claimed he shouldn't have parted ways with the franchise to Karmonos to begin with. I "love" the Brass Bonanza as much as the next person, but it's obvious at this point the NHL won't be coming to an XL Center near you. Right now I really miss the affiliation with the Portland Pirates...dah well. Go IceBergs in the East or whatever St. John's is called?

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12-21-2011, 05:11 PM
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Here's tonights roster which should answer some questions in this thread:

http://amerks.com/media/pdf/20111221-vsLE.pdf

Gongalski and Campbell are on tryout contracts.

Morrisonn and Finley are injured as well as Ryan. So there's 3 scratches off the list...yeah...


Last edited by TakeThatTootoo: 12-21-2011 at 05:17 PM.
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12-21-2011, 07:27 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProngersEyeball View Post
Here's tonights roster which should answer some questions in this thread:

http://amerks.com/media/pdf/20111221-vsLE.pdf

Gongalski and Campbell are on tryout contracts.

Morrisonn and Finley are injured as well as Ryan. So there's 3 scratches off the list...yeah...
Finley is playing and Morrisonn is suspended.

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12-21-2011, 10:24 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Teams in the AHL are affiliate teams.
They exist to serve their parent club and wouldn't exist without a parent club.
Every single affiliate club will play shorthanded at some point because the needs of the parent club are more important.

How could any parent club stockpile enough players so that 10+ injuries occurring concurrently would have no effect on the affiliate club?
It's not possible.
There is a limit on the number of contracts an organization can have (50), so there's room for about four extra players (23 + 23).
Even if you circumvent the contract limit by using AHL contracts, you're not going to get incredibly talented players most of the time, so you're solving one problem and creating another ("WHY DO THEY GIVE US SUCH ****** PLAYERS!?!?!1").

Fans of AHL teams need to accept this reality.
You're not at the top of the food chain, so it's just the way it is.
Deal with it.
So go out and sign some guys to AHL tryout deals. The Amerks just played 3 games in 3 nights in fricking Texas shorthanded. Then the Sabres were forced to call up Whitmore and Foligno who both were coming off tough travel with a depleated roster. Now Foligno is back with the Amerks playing in his 5th game in 6 nights stemming from Texas to Ottawa and back to Rochester. And ya wonder how injuries happen and how players **** the bed down the stretch.

I understand there is an un written rule the the AHL is a developmental league for NHL teams, but that doesnt mean you have to completely **** on the fans and players of a team you own.

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12-21-2011, 10:41 PM
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Foligno showed huge guts playing today. 5th game in 6 days. probably hasn't gotten much sleep. Got an assist and an empty netter.

Gongalski has got some size and likes to use it. Looked serviceable. Didn't notice Campbell at all.

Turnbull looked great tonight. Brennan was the best skater on the ice.

Rankin is make a hell of a case for a contract.


Last edited by Revelate: 12-21-2011 at 10:46 PM.
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12-21-2011, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MillerFan1 View Post
The Amerks just played 3 games in 3 nights in fricking Texas shorthanded.
What am I missing here? As far as I can tell from the boxscores, the Amerks dressed 18 skaters and 2 goalies for all 3 games in Texas.

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12-21-2011, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MillerFan1 View Post
So go out and sign some guys to AHL tryout deals. The Amerks just played 3 games in 3 nights in fricking Texas shorthanded. Then the Sabres were forced to call up Whitmore and Foligno who both were coming off tough travel with a depleated roster. Now Foligno is back with the Amerks playing in his 5th game in 6 nights stemming from Texas to Ottawa and back to Rochester. And ya wonder how injuries happen and how players **** the bed down the stretch.

I understand there is an un written rule the the AHL is a developmental league for NHL teams, but that doesnt mean you have to completely **** on the fans and players of a team you own.
You're just flat out wrong here. So I guess I won't broach that topic.

As far as Whitmore and Foligno coming off tough travel, what the hell do you want the Sabres to do? They can't predict injuries, should they play shorthanded just to avoid Whitmore and Folingno having tough travel days? And again, they get a guy back and so they send Foligno back to Rochester to play tonight. What exactly do you expect?

Would signing guys to AHL tryout deals solve any of this? Absolutely not. Foligno and Whitmore still would've had a tough travel day, and FOligno would still be playing 5 games in 6 nights.

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12-21-2011, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MillerFan1 View Post
So go out and sign some guys to AHL tryout deals. The Amerks just played 3 games in 3 nights in fricking Texas shorthanded. Then the Sabres were forced to call up Whitmore and Foligno who both were coming off tough travel with a depleated roster. Now Foligno is back with the Amerks playing in his 5th game in 6 nights stemming from Texas to Ottawa and back to Rochester. And ya wonder how injuries happen and how players **** the bed down the stretch.
They do sign guys to PTO's, but it's a crapshoot.
All you can expect is a warm body, which will still lead to complaints.
We still constantly hear that we need to make some sort of trade that involves us giving up assets to get a veteran that has zero NHL upside.
There's also the classic "sign a veteran", which would work if we could just magically pull one out of thin air.

As already mentioned, they didn't play shorthanded this weekend.
Were they injury riddled?
Yes, but they played with a full bench in each of those games.

Quote:
I understand there is an un written rule the the AHL is a developmental league for NHL teams, but that doesnt mean you have to completely **** on the fans and players of a team you own.
It's not really unwritten when the league brands itself as such and states that development is it's primary goal:
Quote:
The AHL serves as the top development league for the National Hockey League
Quote:
In the AHL, player development is a top priority.
http://theahl.com/faq-p137653

I don't get how the Sabres are ******** on the Amerks fans or players.
Sorry we've suffered an inordinate amount of injuries and have had to recall the players that are our property that have their salaries paid by us.

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12-22-2011, 12:27 AM
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I'm starting to get the impression that his son is doing more for the current AHL organization anyways. But if he loved the Whalers so much as he claimed he shouldn't have parted ways with the franchise to Karmonos to begin with. I "love" the Brass Bonanza as much as the next person, but it's obvious at this point the NHL won't be coming to an XL Center near you. Right now I really miss the affiliation with the Portland Pirates...dah well. Go IceBergs in the East or whatever St. John's is called?
The Whalers were a victim of different times for NHL franchises. The Whalers would have been more successful under the current CBA and salary cap/revenue. They were a goon team for a reason...and that reason sounds like what little birdies make in the trees, if you catch my drift

I can't believe Baldwin's plan is to -renovate- the old as ballz XL Center (Hartford Civic Center for those who can only think of 96-97 when the Sabres last played the Whalers). So not worth it. Then again, the red tape and hilarious corruption of city politics, combined with a city that hasn't done well in recent years due to the recession, there's no way a new arena is going to be built. And with no new arena, no team will want to play in Hartford, unless the XL Center is simply a stopgap while a new building is being constructed.

To be honest, the AHL is a good fit for Hartford. The Whale draws an average AHL attendance, I feel like, based on the games I've gone to. It just always looks like no one's at the games cause it's a comparatively huge arena.

As a random non-sequiter: I have a ticket stub for the 2nd to last Whalers home game against...The Buffalo Sabres! My kid self remembers the Primeau brothers fighting each other. Whalers won 4-2. Hasek was in goal. Somehow, that happened. Oh wait, look at the box score...

http://www.hockey-reference.com/boxs...704070HAR.html

Hasek faces 41 shots, stops 37. Burke stops 22 out of 24. The more things change...

And in typical Whaler fashion, after winning that game, they lose their next two on the road to be eliminated from the playoffs just in time for game 82 at home!

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12-22-2011, 05:16 AM
  #20
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Sorry i was wrong about tue shorthanded this past weekend thing, but in probably 7 games so far this season they have played 1-2 guys short. Darcy did the same thing in Portland and the same thing a few years ago before the affiliation ended. Don't tell me they sign guys to PTOs because usually when they do its after the team has played shorthanded.

Bottom line is tue Sabres aren't doing **** for the Amerks. The worst part? They own the ****ing team. I cant say im surprised though because they arent doing **** to help themselves either.

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12-24-2011, 12:09 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
The Whalers were a victim of different times for NHL franchises. The Whalers would have been more successful under the current CBA and salary cap/revenue. They were a goon team for a reason...and that reason sounds like what little birdies make in the trees, if you catch my drift

I can't believe Baldwin's plan is to -renovate- the old as ballz XL Center (Hartford Civic Center for those who can only think of 96-97 when the Sabres last played the Whalers). So not worth it. Then again, the red tape and hilarious corruption of city politics, combined with a city that hasn't done well in recent years due to the recession, there's no way a new arena is going to be built. And with no new arena, no team will want to play in Hartford, unless the XL Center is simply a stopgap while a new building is being constructed.

To be honest, the AHL is a good fit for Hartford. The Whale draws an average AHL attendance, I feel like, based on the games I've gone to. It just always looks like no one's at the games cause it's a comparatively huge arena.

As a random non-sequiter: I have a ticket stub for the 2nd to last Whalers home game against...The Buffalo Sabres! My kid self remembers the Primeau brothers fighting each other. Whalers won 4-2. Hasek was in goal. Somehow, that happened. Oh wait, look at the box score...

http://www.hockey-reference.com/boxs...704070HAR.html

Hasek faces 41 shots, stops 37. Burke stops 22 out of 24. The more things change...

And in typical Whaler fashion, after winning that game, they lose their next two on the road to be eliminated from the playoffs just in time for game 82 at home!
Haha, good stuff. Here's been my idea for a couple years now for anyone really crazy and delusional enough with the bucks to go for it. Pitch Pratt & Whitney an offer they can't refuse for their land in East Hartford. Put up a state-of-the-art arena complex in unison to go with Rentschler Field and with the parking spots make it comparable to what Philly has or the old Meadowlands. Woolah! Second coming of the Hartford Whalers! ......

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