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05-15-2012, 11:56 AM
  #901
Hank Chinaski
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Craig Button updated his top 60 'Craig's list':

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

Olli Maata is the big riser, listed at #30 after being omited from his last ranking. Grigorenko continues to fall, he's now listed at #20.

Malcolm Subban at #8 now? I wonder if any teams in the top 10 are seriously considering him.

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05-15-2012, 12:48 PM
  #902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Craig Button updated his top 60 'Craig's list':

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

Olli Maata is the big riser, listed at #30 after being omited from his last ranking. Grigorenko continues to fall, he's now listed at #20.

Malcolm Subban at #8 now? I wonder if any teams in the top 10 are seriously considering him.
I don't really put too much stock into Button's list. He tends to have players all over the place compared to CSS or ISS and others. Dumba seemed to be his favorite guy, and Murray didn't crack the top 10 for most of the year. Other lists seem to be far closer to what actually happens draft day, in terms of who picks whom, than what Craig Button suggests.

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05-15-2012, 01:32 PM
  #903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
I don't really put too much stock into Button's list. He tends to have players all over the place compared to CSS or ISS and others. Dumba seemed to be his favorite guy, and Murray didn't crack the top 10 for most of the year. Other lists seem to be far closer to what actually happens draft day, in terms of who picks whom, than what Craig Button suggests.
Except last year where he pretty much predicted exactly what happened.

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05-15-2012, 03:38 PM
  #904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
Except last year where he pretty much predicted exactly what happened.
Really? Well his mock draft in april 2011 - close to same timeframe as now - had:

1. RNH
2. Huberdeau
3. Landeskog
4. Murphy
5. Strome
6. Larsson
7. Couturier
8. Beaulieu
9. Oleksiak
10. Bartschi
11. Puempel
12. Zibanejad
13. Phillips
14. Hamilton

I guess, 2 for 14 is pretty good. For Button. At least he got RNH right.

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05-15-2012, 03:55 PM
  #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
Really? Well his mock draft in april 2011 - close to same timeframe as now - had:

1. RNH
2. Huberdeau
3. Landeskog
4. Murphy
5. Strome
6. Larsson
7. Couturier
8. Beaulieu
9. Oleksiak
10. Bartschi
11. Puempel
12. Zibanejad
13. Phillips
14. Hamilton

I guess, 2 for 14 is pretty good. For Button. At least he got RNH right.
Thanks for posting his list from 2011. It's interesting that he rated Murphy so highly last year. He values offensive d-men more than NHL scouts do perhaps? Wonder if that's the case of him rating Morgan Rielly so highly this year. I have seen Rielly this year, not seen Murray play, but followed him closely and IMO Murray is a far superior d-man. Talk about "flipping the script" if Murray falls out of the top 7 on draft day. I hope Chevy has an adaptable draft strategy for such a contingency...

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05-15-2012, 04:02 PM
  #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Craig Button updated his top 60 'Craig's list':

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

Olli Maata is the big riser, listed at #30 after being omited from his last ranking. Grigorenko continues to fall, he's now listed at #20.

Malcolm Subban at #8 now? I wonder if any teams in the top 10 are seriously considering him.
What a weird draft year. There's always dramatic risers as the scouting community fleshes out its evaluations during the year. But damn there are some guys coming out of left field here...

Subban in top 10 after no talk all year of any franchise goalies in the CHL?

Grigorenko's big fall but any info on him suggests he likes NA and had mono at the end of the year. Is he the next Logan Couture or, conversely, Angelo Esposito?

Maatta the best d-man, maybe best player, in the CHL playoffs (and not 18 until August) and he warrants only 30th?

This draft year is shaping up as Yakupov>>>>>>everyone else.

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05-15-2012, 04:21 PM
  #907
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This is his Craig's list from June 8th, 2011:

Actual CB Rank Player
1****** 1****** RYAN NUGENT-HOPKINS
3****** 2****** JONATHAN HUBERDEAU
2****** 3****** GABRIEL LANDESKOG
12***** 4****** RYAN MURPHY
6****** 5****** MIKA ZIBANEJAD
5****** 6****** RYAN STROME
8****** 7****** SEAN COUTURIER
4****** 8****** ADAM LARSSON
17***** 9****** NATHAN BEAULIEU
10***** 10***** JONAS BRODIN
13***** 11***** SVEN BARTSCHI
9****** 12***** DOUGIE HAMILTON
14***** 13***** JAMIESON OLEKSIAK
24***** 14***** MATTHEW PUEMPEL
28***** 15***** ZACK PHILLIPS
7****** 16***** MARK SCHEIFELE
58***** 17***** NIKITA KUCHEROV
26***** 18***** PHILLIP DANAULT
16***** 19***** JOEL ARMIA
35***** 20***** TOMAS JURCO
43***** 21***** BRANDON SAAD
19***** 22***** OSCAR KLEFBLOM
27***** 23***** VLADISLAV NAMESTNIKOV
30***** 24***** RICKARD RAKELL
23***** 25***** JOSEPH MORROW
20***** 26***** CONNOR MURPHY
39***** 27***** JOHN GIBSON
25***** 28***** STUART PERCY
32***** 29***** TY RATTIE
18***** 30***** MARK MCNEILL

This year, there is no way Murray falls to #12. He's playing well at the World's as a 18 yr old - against men. Does not look out of place. How he didn't move up on Button's list is laughable.

Dumba at #2 seems impossible too.


Last edited by Bob E: 05-15-2012 at 07:26 PM.
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Old
05-15-2012, 04:29 PM
  #908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintin's Ghost View Post
What a weird draft year. There's always dramatic risers as the scouting community fleshes out its evaluations during the year. But damn there are some guys coming out of left field here...

(....)

This draft year is shaping up as Yakupov>>>>>>everyone else.
Agreed. This strikes me as a year where it's pretty much a toss-up after Yakupov. This seems like a year where you'll get one or two Scheifele-type picks in the top 10, guys who ascend rapidly and overtake 'consensus' guys. Also, I'd look for some guys who aren't mentioned by a single Top 60 list to go first round, an under the radar guy like Matej Beran, for example.

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05-15-2012, 07:23 PM
  #909
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Reminds me of 2004 - Ovechkin, Malkin and everyone else. Lots of surprises after the first few picks.

Wonder who went #4 and #5 that year?

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05-15-2012, 07:44 PM
  #910
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Ladd went #4 & Wheeler went #5 - you knew that, didn't you Bob E?

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05-15-2012, 07:56 PM
  #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
I guess, 2 for 14 is pretty good. For Button. At least he got RNH right.
Keep in mind that Button isn't trying to predict draft order. He's ranking the value of these players as prospects.

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05-15-2012, 08:43 PM
  #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanky View Post
Keep in mind that Button isn't trying to predict draft order. He's ranking the value of these players as prospects.
On TSN's website, it states:

Craig's List
TSN Scout Craig Button produces 10 monthly rankings (September-June) of the top players eligible for the 2012 NHL Entry Draft. Craig's monthly rankings represent his individual assessment of where players are slotted in the NHL draft.


I read that as he's ranking players in the order he feels they should be drafted as prospects. Or in a perfect world - according to Button's BPA - that would be his draft order, no? If he thinks Rielly is a better prospect than Murray, then he's suggesting Rielly should be drafted before Murray, etc.

I get that he isn't taking into account team needs or draft tendencies, but he's suggesting Ryan Murray is not as good a prospect as 11 other draft eligible players. That's just crazy.

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05-15-2012, 08:55 PM
  #913
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Button ranks them as to how he feels they will develop in 3-5 years

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05-15-2012, 08:55 PM
  #914
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All things considered, this year will likely be all over the map after selection 2 or 3, so it will be great fun watching it this year.

Who knows which player will be available at #9. Could be lots of surprises. I wonder if a guy like Ceci or Gaunce jumps up and goes in top 6 or 7?

In a draft year like this, where teams/GMs might go off-the-board with their pick starting early, is it better to move up to get a player you want - even if he's rated later, or sit and wait to see who is available at your pick?

For instance, if the Jets like Koekkoek or Sissons, do they stay at 9, move up or move back? You might think, he'll be there, but if picks are off the charts early - who knows.

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05-15-2012, 09:02 PM
  #915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
Button ranks them as to how he feels they will develop in 3-5 years
Isn't that what everyone who ranks draft eligible players - scouting services, scouts, gms, Bob Mackenzie, etc. - is doing?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but you wouldn't draft player 'x', if you think player 'y' will be a much better player in 3 to 5 yrs. You'd take player 'y'.

If he's ranking Murray #12, he thinks he'll be the 12th best prospect in the draft in 3-5 yrs. Everyone else has him as the best dman prospect in the draft.

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05-15-2012, 09:18 PM
  #916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
Reminds me of 2004 - Ovechkin, Malkin and everyone else. Lots of surprises after the first few picks.

Wonder who went #4 and #5 that year?
Google? Wiki?

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05-15-2012, 09:52 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
Google? Wiki?
You might need that, i don't. Some folks remember things like that. Guess you don't.

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05-16-2012, 08:31 AM
  #918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Craig Button updated his top 60 'Craig's list':

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

Olli Maata is the big riser, listed at #30 after being omited from his last ranking. Grigorenko continues to fall, he's now listed at #20.

Malcolm Subban at #8 now? I wonder if any teams in the top 10 are seriously considering him.
Craig Button is nothing but a paid troll. He throws the names in a hat, picks them out and makes his rankings to stir up controversy. Him and Redline (Woodlief) like to do that, just to mess with people's heads and get people talking which gets them hits on their website. Garbage. Subban is not even the best goalie in the draft, hell, many many scouts will tell you he is not even the SECOND best goalie in the draft. What a joke. Grigorenko at 20 Not gonna even click it, what a joke.

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05-16-2012, 09:03 AM
  #919
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And from the Prospect board, here's ISS top 30 for May...

http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.ca/2...-rankings.html

The top 15 are

(1). Nail Yakupov (RW) - Sarnia (OHL)
(2). Filip Forsberg (C) - Leksands (SWE) *above
(4). Ryan Murray (LD) - Everett (WHL)
(3). Mikhail Grigorenko (C) - Quebec (QMJHL)
(5). Jacob Trouba (RD) - US-NTDP (USHL)
(6). Mathew Dumba (RD) - Red Deer (WHL)
(8). Morgan Rielly (LD) - Moose Jaw (WHL) *above
(8). Teuvo Teravainen (LW) - Jokerit (FIN)
(9). Cody Ceci (RD) - Ottawa (OHL)
(10). Griffin Reinhart (LD) - Edmonton (WHL)
(11). Brendan Gaunce (C) - Belleville (OHL)
(13). Olli Maatta (LD) - London (OHL)
(12). Sebastian Collberg (RW) - Vastra (SWE)
(14). Alex Galchenyuk (C) - Sarnia (OHL)
(22). Nicholas Kerdiles (C/LW) - US-NTDP (USHL)

ISS scouts have Galchenyuk falling to 14th and Reinhart still available 10th. That would be awesome.

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05-16-2012, 09:11 AM
  #920
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[QUOTE=Tintin's Ghost;49766911]And from the Prospect board, here's ISS top 30 for May...

http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.ca/2...-rankings.html

The top 15 are

(1). Nail Yakupov (RW) - Sarnia (OHL)
(2). Filip Forsberg (C) - Leksands (SWE) *above
(4). Ryan Murray (LD) - Everett (WHL)
(3). Mikhail Grigorenko (C) - Quebec (QMJHL)
(5). Jacob Trouba (RD) - US-NTDP (USHL)
(6). Mathew Dumba (RD) - Red Deer (WHL)
(8). Morgan Rielly (LD) - Moose Jaw (WHL) *above
(8). Teuvo Teravainen (LW) - Jokerit (FIN)
(9). Cody Ceci (RD) - Ottawa (OHL)
(10). Griffin Reinhart (LD) - Edmonton (WHL)
(11). Brendan Gaunce (C) - Belleville (OHL)
(13). Olli Maatta (LD) - London (OHL)
(12). Sebastian Collberg (RW) - Vastra (SWE)
(14). Alex Galchenyuk (C) - Sarnia (OHL)
(22). Nicholas Kerdiles (C/LW) - US-NTDP (USHL)

ISS scouts have Galchenyuk falling to 14th and Reinhart still available 10th. That would be awesome.[/QUOTE

Wow, Kerdiles up to 15 and Faksa out? this is going to be a VERY interesting draft

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05-16-2012, 09:19 AM
  #921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Craig Button is nothing but a paid troll. He throws the names in a hat, picks them out and makes his rankings to stir up controversy. Him and Redline (Woodlief) like to do that, just to mess with people's heads and get people talking which gets them hits on their website. Garbage. Subban is not even the best goalie in the draft, hell, many many scouts will tell you he is not even the SECOND best goalie in the draft. What a joke. Grigorenko at 20 Not gonna even click it, what a joke.
Grigs at 20 is ridiculous, I totally agree. I think that's Button trying to play up the whole 'Russian factor', even though there's been nothing credible to suggest he's a flight risk.

That's strange though, I've seen very few reports with Dansk and/or Vasilevski ahead of Subban.

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05-16-2012, 09:38 AM
  #922
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Gaunce's draft rankings/projections are reminding me of Scheifele last year. Button has him at 37, ISS has him at 11.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if we call Gaunce's name at the no. 9 spot.

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05-16-2012, 09:54 AM
  #923
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Quote:
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Gaunce's draft rankings/projections are reminding me of Scheifele last year. Button has him at 37, ISS has him at 11.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if we call Gaunce's name at the no. 9 spot.
I'd personally be happy with Reinhart or Faksa at 9 (assuming guys like Murray etc, won't be available), but wouldn't be unhappy with Gaunce. Not sure he's got the same upside though.

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05-16-2012, 09:55 AM
  #924
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Gaunce's draft rankings/projections are reminding me of Scheifele last year. Button has him at 37, ISS has him at 11.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if we call Gaunce's name at the no. 9 spot.
Yes and he's a character guy with size. Sounds like Chevy created a player on NHL 12. I hope some one takes Rielly and TT early so we get a couple more guys dropping to us for consideration.

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05-16-2012, 10:41 AM
  #925
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Originally Posted by Tintin's Ghost View Post
Yes and he's a character guy with size. Sounds like Chevy created a player on NHL 12. I hope some one takes Rielly and TT early so we get a couple more guys dropping to us for consideration.
I agree. Not that those two aren't good prospects, I just think the Jets would take them. So if another 'highly ranked' guy dropped, that works for me.

Gaunce does provide that big, physical center that teams covet. Has some offensive ability, and defensive awareness. Pretty good kid from all accounts.

This year might be the most interesting in years. No clear top 10.

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