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Old
05-25-2012, 02:55 PM
  #976
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Renegade Stylings - do you think Justin Hamonic will get drafted?

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05-26-2012, 12:17 AM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
My final WHL draft ranking is up, which covers the top 15 players from the WHL. I have previously ranked players 16-90 as well. Let me know if you have any questions by following me on Twitter or posting them here!

http://whl-from-above.blogspot.ca/20...12-nhl_25.html

You know, from what i've seen and heard from Chevy, Colton Sissons and Dalton Thrower sure seem to be his type of players. Would love to see both of them as Jets - though that's likely impossible.

Sissons would be a stretch at #9 and Thrower likely won't be there at #39.

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05-26-2012, 01:30 AM
  #978
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You know, from what i've seen and heard from Chevy, Colton Sissons and Dalton Thrower sure seem to be his type of players. Would love to see both of them as Jets - though that's likely impossible.

Sissons would be a stretch at #9 and Thrower likely won't be there at #39.
Good call on both players. I do think Sissons will be a heck of a pick for whoever gets him he has boat loads of character but he would be too big a reach for where we pick. I could absolutely see Chevy trying to move up in the second round to get Thrower if he isn't picked up by about 35. I think he has improved allot this season and he is tough as nails and really aggressive.

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05-26-2012, 02:37 AM
  #979
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You know, from what i've seen and heard from Chevy, Colton Sissons and Dalton Thrower sure seem to be his type of players. Would love to see both of them as Jets - though that's likely impossible.

Sissons would be a stretch at #9 and Thrower likely won't be there at #39.
Not a fan of Sissons at all. He is very one-dimensional. People talk about him being good defensively...yet he is one of the worst +/- on his team. He has some physical play, not as much as some others. He has a wicked shot, but that's it. He is a one-dimensional goalscorer, IMO and I am not sure that is enough. I have him rated 34 and seriously would consider dropping him further.

Thrower, IDK. He is undersized, but plays the game with a huge passion. He has some offense, but this guy strikes me again as a guy like Dumba that can dominate the junior game with that but might have lots of trouble adjusting that type of game to the next level. We will see, but he is not one of my favourites, that's for sure.

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05-26-2012, 09:10 AM
  #980
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Not a fan of Sissons at all. He is very one-dimensional. People talk about him being good defensively...yet he is one of the worst +/- on his team. He has some physical play, not as much as some others. He has a wicked shot, but that's it. He is a one-dimensional goalscorer, IMO and I am not sure that is enough. I have him rated 34 and seriously would consider dropping him further.

Thrower, IDK. He is undersized, but plays the game with a huge passion. He has some offense, but this guy strikes me again as a guy like Dumba that can dominate the junior game with that but might have lots of trouble adjusting that type of game to the next level. We will see, but he is not one of my favourites, that's for sure.
Was thinking Sissons is a hard-working, gritty, leadership guy - with a big shot. Works hard on his game, too, always trying to improve. Coachable. Lots of character. Likely a winger at the next level, not a C. Playing him on the wing with Scheifele, in the future, made some sense to me. His skating seems to be a bit of a concern, and the plus/minus. Would need to work on his defensive game, no doubt. That can be taught.

I'm thinking he'll go in 15-25 range. Seems to be a fit with Pittsburgh, to me.

Thrower adds that aggressive element on D, chucks the knuckles, and tries to get others off their game. Chevy played that style in Brandon, if memory serves me correct. I don't think he'd be a big point guy in the NHL, as he is in Jr - for sure - i think he'll be the guy that pisses the other team off and gets under their skin. Needs to play better defensively too. I just thought Chevy might appreciate his style of play, somewhat.

I'm thinking he'll go in 25-35 range. Likely to a team that overvalues his offensive numbers in Jr.

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05-26-2012, 09:54 AM
  #981
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Was thinking Sissons is a hard-working, gritty, leadership guy - with a big shot. Works hard on his game, too, always trying to improve. Coachable. Lots of character. Likely a winger at the next level, not a C. Playing him on the wing with Scheifele, in the future, made some sense to me. His skating seems to be a bit of a concern, and the plus/minus. Would need to work on his defensive game, no doubt. That can be taught.

I'm thinking he'll go in 15-25 range. Seems to be a fit with Pittsburgh, to me.
Honestly, I'd be surprised in Sissons is a first rounder. He just does not have the upside. A grinding, hard shooting third line winger that chips in a goal or two is his upside and I just don't see a team taking a first rounder on him. I'd and I think most teams would rather (especially with this weak draft) swing for the fences for a high upside guy than take a chance on low potential guy like Sissons, IMO.

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Thrower adds that aggressive element on D, chucks the knuckles, and tries to get others off their game. Chevy played that style in Brandon, if memory serves me correct. I don't think he'd be a big point guy in the NHL, as he is in Jr - for sure - i think he'll be the guy that pisses the other team off and gets under their skin. Needs to play better defensively too. I just thought Chevy might appreciate his style of play, somewhat.

I'm thinking he'll go in 25-35 range. Likely to a team that overvalues his offensive numbers in Jr.
That's the thing. He is under 6 feet, less than 190lbs and projects as a hitting defenseman. That just will not work. His defensive game has holes, his offensive game does not translate to the next level, his hitting/"dymanicness" style will be greatly diminished at the next level (especially at his size). I just am not seeing where he projects as an NHLer, it is looking like at best a 6/7 shot blocking depth hard working depth defenseman, IMO.


Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 05-26-2012 at 10:24 AM.
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05-26-2012, 10:33 AM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Honestly, I'd be surprised in Sissons is a first rounder. He just does not have the upside. A grinding, hard shooting third line winger that chips in a goal or two is his upside and I just don't see a team taking a first rounder on him. I'd and I think most teams would rather (especially with this weak draft) swing for the fences for a high upside guy than take a chance on low potential guy like Sissons, IMO.



That's the thing. He is under 6 feet, less than 190lbs and projects as a hitting defenseman. That just will not work. His defensive game has holes, his offensive game does not translate to the next level, his hitting/"dymanicness" style will be greatly diminished at the next level (especially at his size). I just am not seeing where he projects as an NHLer, it is looking like at best a 6/7 shot blocking depth depth defenseman, IMO.
I think teams will like Sissons leadership, and aggressive play. Hard to tell where he would go. But #9 is too big a stretch, for sure.

I've seen stats for Thrower that are 6', 195 lbs. He'd have to fill out to 210ish to be a physical player.

Read this in one of his draft write-ups:

From an offensive standpoint, some NHL scouts are divided on Thrower, however.

“I love his toughness and character, but I don’t see him as a point producer at the NHL level,” said one Western Canada-based NHL scout. “He brings a lot of the characteristics you want on your hockey club including smarts, tenacity and a will to win. That isn’t enough for him to be in play for us in the first round, but he is the kind of player you win with.”

Another NHL scout for a Western Conference team sees similarities to Kevin Bieksa, defenseman for Thrower’s favorite NHL team, the Vancouver Canucks.

“He’s got some Bieksa in him and I think Thrower’s offensive abilities are underrated,” the scout said. “He’s still developing, but put him in the right system and I think he’s capable of being a top-three defender capable of giving you 40 to 50 points one day. Some will say that he’s not skilled enough to be a natural point producer, but he’s a smart, hard-working kid who looked pretty effective to me this season.”



Bit of a wild card, no doubt, but could go in 1st round. Regardless, seems like a Chevy type player.

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05-26-2012, 10:45 AM
  #983
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I don't remember the last time there was so little consensus on the ranking in the top-10. Outside of the top-3 (tier 1 in Holden's list), there's almost no agreement on rankings. Most probably consider Rielly and Dumba among the tier 2 players in that list. Spots 4-11 are pretty wide open.
I agree with this. Almost every mock draft and rankings there are considerable differences. So what are the chances of Galchenyuk, with all his injury problems last year dropping down to 9th. I know a lot of people are high on Faksa, but I can't believe Chevy would pass up Galchenyuk if he miraculously dropped to us. IMO our dreams of landing a true 1st line centre would be answered.

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05-26-2012, 11:25 AM
  #984
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I agree with this. Almost every mock draft and rankings there are considerable differences. So what are the chances of Galchenyuk, with all his injury problems last year dropping down to 9th. I know a lot of people are high on Faksa, but I can't believe Chevy would pass up Galchenyuk if he miraculously dropped to us. IMO our dreams of landing a true 1st line centre would be answered.
Would we draft him? I think they would. Grigorenko? Not sure, I'd say likey no. But, Galchenyuk, yes, i think they would.

There are a few teams that really need a center prospect picking before us - Montreal, Toronto and Carolina, maybe Anaheim and CBJ, too. I'm thinking we'll see Forsberg (CBJ), Grigorenko (Habs), Galchenyuk (Leafs) and Faksa (Canes) taken before we draft.

If he gets by the Leafs, i'd be surprised.

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05-26-2012, 11:34 AM
  #985
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Would we draft him? I think they would. Grigorenko? Not sure, I'd say likey no. But, Galchenyuk, yes, i think they would.

There are a few teams that really need a center prospect picking before us - Montreal, Toronto and Carolina, maybe Anaheim and CBJ, too. I'm thinking we'll see Forsberg (CBJ), Grigorenko (Habs), Galchenyuk (Leafs) and Faksa (Canes) taken before we draft.

If he gets by the Leafs, i'd be surprised.
Habs won't take Grigorenko. Head Scout is well known to dislike Grigorenko alot. They will take Galyenchuk over him, but if CBJ take Forsberg instead of Murray/Grigorenko (which I doubt), MTL will take Murray/Galyenchuk before Girgorenko. But I doubtmGrigorenko makes it past TOR, he has way too much upside, much more than Galyenchuk/Forsberg, IMO. Not a Galyenchuk fan myself, I see too much Sam Gagner in him. But still don't see him lasting till 9.

What will be really interesting is seeing if Carolina takes Faksa. They will have scouted Kitchener hard with last year's first rounder Ryan Murphy playing for them. I really think Carolina takes Faksa personally.

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05-26-2012, 12:45 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Habs won't take Grigorenko. Head Scout is well known to dislike Grigorenko alot. They will take Galyenchuk over him, but if CBJ take Forsberg instead of Murray/Grigorenko (which I doubt), MTL will take Murray/Galyenchuk before Girgorenko. But I doubtmGrigorenko makes it past TOR, he has way too much upside, much more than Galyenchuk/Forsberg, IMO. Not a Galyenchuk fan myself, I see too much Sam Gagner in him. But still don't see him lasting till 9.

What will be really interesting is seeing if Carolina takes Faksa. They will have scouted Kitchener hard with last year's first rounder Ryan Murphy playing for them. I really think Carolina takes Faksa personally.
I hear ya. Grigs has been rumored to be going to Mtl for so long, I guess i've bought into the hype. Thanks for the reminder about the Canadiens head scout not liking him.

I just don't see Columbus taking Murray. Should they, probably. But they are sooo thin at forward, they will need more forward prospects. On D they have Johnson, Wis, Methot and Tyutin all signed long-term. Now they could move one or more of them to make room for d prospects, but looking at the forward cupboard - it's pretty bare. If they 'don't like Russian players' - then Forsberg or TT would be the highest rated forwards.

I'd really like Faksa to slip to #9. I don't think he will. I think Carolina has him in their sights. But Anaheim might grab him at #6.

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05-26-2012, 01:15 PM
  #987
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I hear ya. Grigs has been rumored to be going to Mtl for so long, I guess i've bought into the hype. Thanks for the reminder about the Canadiens head scout not liking him.

I just don't see Columbus taking Murray. Should they, probably. But they are sooo thin at forward, they will need more forward prospects. On D they have Johnson, Wis, Methot and Tyutin all signed long-term. Now they could move one or more of them to make room for d prospects, but looking at the forward cupboard - it's pretty bare. If they 'don't like Russian players' - then Forsberg or TT would be the highest rated forwards.

I'd really like Faksa to slip to #9. I don't think he will. I think Carolina has him in their sights. But Anaheim might grab him at #6.
I think Carolina takes TT. Just a guess, but that's who I think they'll pick if he's available.

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05-26-2012, 01:27 PM
  #988
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I think Carolina takes TT. Just a guess, but that's who I think they'll pick if he's available.
you might be right. I was thinking a big center, but a winger could work for them too. I just don't see Carolina taking a dman, which means, it's guaranteed they will take a dman now.

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05-26-2012, 01:49 PM
  #989
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you might be right. I was thinking a big center, but a winger could work for them too. I just don't see Carolina taking a dman, which means, it's guaranteed they will take a dman now.
Yup, the Canes have way too many d-men in their system.

I'm also a firm believer that the Habs will take Grigorenko. Even if the head scout doesn't like him, doesn't mean the GM has the same opinion. Being a huge fan of the NFL draft, that whole process is all about smoke screens. The NHL isn't much different. So saying a head scout doesn't like a certain player could also be an intentional lie to try and throw other teams off.

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05-27-2012, 12:31 PM
  #990
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Maybe. At #3 there would be talented kids to pick, so they would have options to take a player they feel is 'just as good' if not better than Grigs.

I'm wondering if their new GM tries to move up a couple of spots to take Yakupov. He seems like a Mtl Canadien to me.

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05-28-2012, 12:05 PM
  #991
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Buffalo has 2 picks this year in first round. Wonder if there is a trade possibility there.

How about:

To Sabres:

Toby Enstrom or Dustin Byfuglien
1st rd pick 2012 (#9)
2nd rd pick 2013

To Jets:
Drew Stafford
1st rd pick 2012 (#12)
1st rd pick 2012 (#21)

With 2 first rd picks - a fwd and dman prospect could be grabbed.

Would depend on who was available at #9 - if Jets wanted to keep the pick to pick player 'x', or if Sabres weren't to interested in moving up 3 spots to get a particular player.

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05-28-2012, 12:31 PM
  #992
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Buffalo has 2 picks this year in first round. Wonder if there is a trade possibility there.

How about:

To Sabres:

Toby Enstrom or Dustin Byfuglien
1st rd pick 2012 (#9)
2nd rd pick 2013

To Jets:
Drew Stafford
1st rd pick 2012 (#12)
1st rd pick 2012 (#21)

With 2 first rd picks - a fwd and dman prospect could be grabbed.

Would depend on who was available at #9 - if Jets wanted to keep the pick to pick player 'x', or if Sabres weren't to interested in moving up 3 spots to get a particular player.
no thank you.

I just don't value 1st round picks the way a lot of people do. Sure, i think you should never trade yours unless your for sure drafting 20-30 and trying to "win now", but i also don't think you should be trying to horde them.

Generally their way too overvalued for how big of a gamble they are. Even in the top half of the first round, they've got roughly a 75% of being a career NHLR, NOT a top liner/impact player, i mean a 75% chance of playing 200+ games in the NHL including 3rd -4th liners.

Furthermore, I think you could probably just swing the 9th + 2nd (and take/leave spare parts)for both of buffs first rounders, especially if their was someone they were really after available at 9.

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05-28-2012, 12:34 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
Buffalo has 2 picks this year in first round. Wonder if there is a trade possibility there.

How about:

To Sabres:

Toby Enstrom or Dustin Byfuglien
1st rd pick 2012 (#9)
2nd rd pick 2013

To Jets:
Drew Stafford
1st rd pick 2012 (#12)
1st rd pick 2012 (#21)

With 2 first rd picks - a fwd and dman prospect could be grabbed.

Would depend on who was available at #9 - if Jets wanted to keep the pick to pick player 'x', or if Sabres weren't to interested in moving up 3 spots to get a particular player.
Complete pass. Not even close, IMO. Stafford is horribly inconsistent, not even close the value that Enstrom or Byfuglien bring. Stepping back from 9 to 12 is HUGE step, IMO as I see a huge talent drop off after player 11. 21st pick in this draft will not hold much value from me either, starting at around 16-40 all the players are very very close. Then were ADDING a 2nd. No. Change Enstrom/Byfuglien to Hainsey and change the 2nd to a 3/4th round next year and I MIGHT consider it, but that's it.

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05-28-2012, 01:06 PM
  #994
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Complete pass. Not even close, IMO. Stafford is horribly inconsistent, not even close the value that Enstrom or Byfuglien bring. Stepping back from 9 to 12 is HUGE step, IMO as I see a huge talent drop off after player 11. 21st pick in this draft will not hold much value from me either, starting at around 16-40 all the players are very very close. Then were ADDING a 2nd. No. Change Enstrom/Byfuglien to Hainsey and change the 2nd to a 3/4th round next year and I MIGHT consider it, but that's it.
Ya, wasn't sure about adding the 2nd. But I don't think you get Stafford out of Buffalo for just Hainsey. But then again, would we want him?

He does add size and 30 g potential. When he's 'on' he's pretty good. But I agree, he's off and on - a lot. Would be an upgrade of what we have - though at $4 mill/yr - I don't know if that's good value.

Just bored. Looking to debate the value of 2 top 20ish picks. If Faksa or another top guy is there at #9, its a non-discussion anyway.

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05-28-2012, 01:10 PM
  #995
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Ya, wasn't sure about adding the 2nd. But I don't think you get Stafford out of Buffalo for just Hainsey. But then again, would we want him?

He does add size and 30 g potential. When he's 'on' he's pretty good. But I agree, he's off and on - a lot. Would be an upgrade of what we have - though at $4 mill/yr - I don't know if that's good value.

Just bored. Looking to debate the value of 2 top 20ish picks. If Faksa or another top guy is there at #9, its a non-discussion anyway.
one will be.

i have about 10 -11 guys that are "top". If Faksa is taken, it means Reinhart, Trouba, or even TT(...I guess i'd be ok with him) is available, so i really can' see the point. Especially moving back to 12th, becuse, to me, thats sort of where the big drop off is.

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05-28-2012, 01:28 PM
  #996
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one will be.

i have about 10 -11 guys that are "top". If Faksa is taken, it means Reinhart, Trouba, or even TT(...I guess i'd be ok with him) is available, so i really can' see the point. Especially moving back to 12th, becuse, to me, thats sort of where the big drop off is.
I suppose it depends on where the Jets see guys like Brendan Gaunce, Zemgus Girgensons, Cody Ceci, Olli Maata, Slater Koekkoek or even Colton Sissons (Holden's going to rip me a new one for adding him. ), in comparison to the others in top 9. They might not be as high on Reinhart or TT as others might be.

If 'their guy' has gone by 9, getting 2 of the above guys might make sense.

With such an even talent pool after about #6 or #7 - if that - having two eggs in the basket might increase the chances one of them working out.

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05-28-2012, 01:29 PM
  #997
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Buffalo has 2 picks this year in first round. Wonder if there is a trade possibility there.

How about:

To Sabres:

Toby Enstrom or Dustin Byfuglien
1st rd pick 2012 (#9)
2nd rd pick 2013

To Jets:
Drew Stafford
1st rd pick 2012 (#12)
1st rd pick 2012 (#21)

With 2 first rd picks - a fwd and dman prospect could be grabbed.

Would depend on who was available at #9 - if Jets wanted to keep the pick to pick player 'x', or if Sabres weren't to interested in moving up 3 spots to get a particular player.
I like the thinking here, just don't know if we are getting a good deal or not.

9th > 12th
Enstrom + 2nd in 2013 > Stafford + 21st (IMO)

I wonder if Stafford would have been available before the TD last year. If HF is any indication (which its not), Sabre's fans were ready to send him packing for next to nothing. With his play after the deadline, I wonder if that ship has sailed.

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05-28-2012, 01:52 PM
  #998
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I like the thinking here, just don't know if we are getting a good deal or not.

9th > 12th
Enstrom + 2nd in 2013 > Stafford + 21st (IMO)

I wonder if Stafford would have been available before the TD last year. If HF is any indication (which its not), Sabre's fans were ready to send him packing for next to nothing. With his play after the deadline, I wonder if that ship has sailed.
He did have a good last month or so playing with Ennis. They may see him as a key guy again for them, no doubt. The 2nd is likely too much. Maybe a 4th.

My thought was, if you come out of the draft with:

Stafford, a center prospect (gaunce or Girgensons) and d prospect (koekkoek or Finn) for... Enstrom, a top 9 pick (say, TT or Reinhart) and a later year pick (more likely a 4th, now) - that made some sense to me.

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05-28-2012, 02:14 PM
  #999
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He did have a good last month or so playing with Ennis. They may see him as a key guy again for them, no doubt. The 2nd is likely too much. Maybe a 4th.

My thought was, if you come out of the draft with:

Stafford, a center prospect (gaunce or Girgensons) and d prospect (koekkoek or Finn) for... Enstrom, a top 9 pick (say, TT or Reinhart) and a later year pick (more likely a 4th, now) - that made some sense to me.
Possibly. I just think in this proposal that Enstrom's value is getting underrated. Maybe it's just me, and I could be wearing homer goggles, but I think IF Enstrom gets dealt, that he would return a lot. Elite PMD are highly coveted. I would probably put them up right below #1C's.

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05-28-2012, 02:22 PM
  #1000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Possibly. I just think in this proposal that Enstrom's value is getting underrated. Maybe it's just me, and I could be wearing homer goggles, but I think IF Enstrom gets dealt, that he would return a lot. Elite PMD are highly coveted. I would probably put them up right below #1C's.
You're probably right.

Sabres have a ton of money tied up in erhoff and myers too. Unless they try to move them, enstrom likely has very little interest to them.

I prefer the enstrom to pens for staal, but that's not happening either. Hope toby signs soon, to end all this speculation.

Bob E is offline  
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