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Just make the playoffs...

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Old
12-20-2011, 08:47 PM
  #101
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I noticed that you conveniently left out 07-08...priceless!
And he forgot to put in 1975-76 too.
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
I noticed that too. Selection bias.
If he included the previous season, wouldn't it just show a steeper decline?

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Old
12-20-2011, 10:11 PM
  #102
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I always want to make the playoffs. You never know what can happen once you get there.

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12-20-2011, 10:14 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I always want to make the playoffs. You never know what can happen once you get there.
Yeah remember that time the 8th seeded ... oh right

Sorry that was too easy

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12-20-2011, 10:40 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I noticed that you conveniently left out 07-08...priceless!
You conveniently left out that the Habs were extraordinarily lucky to finish first. They were miraculously free of the major injuries that befell many of their rivals but once they got into the playoffs they were exposed as paper tigers. They barely got by the 8th place Bruins and were manhandled by the Flyers.

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12-21-2011, 01:11 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
You conveniently left out that the Habs were extraordinarily lucky to finish first.
I think our team was pretty decent that year though too. Kovalev, Pleks and Kosty were rocking. Luck aside, we were definitely a top four team in the conference. The Bruins series was tough, but they were a team on an upward trend. A year later they finished 1st. And the Flyers series, I really don't think we got that manhandled. I don't usually like to make excuses, but I thought we geniunely outplayed them in some of our losses in that series. Biron was stopping everything, and both Price and Halak let in a lot of softies.

Nonetheless, I still think I was right to exclude that season, since it was basically another team.


Last edited by andy28: 12-21-2011 at 01:20 AM.
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Old
12-21-2011, 01:16 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
Yeah remember that time the 8th seeded ... oh right

Sorry that was too easy
Fair enough.

But in the same sense... remember that time the #9 team won a playoff round?

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Old
12-21-2011, 01:39 AM
  #107
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the team is a cluster**** now

when martin was canned, i said that we could kiss goodbye to our chances to make the playoffs. i still stand by that.

not because i have no confidence in RC's skills, but because i believe this team over-achieved under JM. let's see if im wrong. then, the language **** storm and now im definitely certain we don't make the playoffs now... how can you expect a team and a coach to perform under these conditions?

so, do i wish we miss the playoffs? hell no!

are we going to miss the playoffs? yup.

so now it's just a matter of failing hard enough to be drafting at least in the top 5.

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Old
12-21-2011, 07:19 AM
  #108
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I want wins and entertainment (meaning awesome play, not boring)

Right now we have none of them so that sums up why I missed to watch so many games this season...

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Old
12-21-2011, 08:03 AM
  #109
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This attitude is what keeps the team in perpetual mediocrity. People nowadays want everything right away. There is no taking a step back to ensure a longer period of bliss. They'd rather mediocre instant returns for some instant gratification only to prolong the suffering of a monotonous existence.

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Old
12-21-2011, 08:34 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
This attitude is what keeps the team in perpetual mediocrity. People nowadays want everything right away. There is no taking a step back to ensure a longer period of bliss. They'd rather mediocre instant returns for some instant gratification only to prolong the suffering of a monotonous existence.
Yeah, let's bomb. That'll teach the kids to compete.

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12-21-2011, 10:06 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Yeah, let's bomb. That'll teach the kids to compete.
We're bombing right now. The kids right now are being taught "compete? get benched. Don't compete? get benched. Campoli, Gill, Moen, Cammy, Gio or Gomez **** up, don't compete, don't perform, cost us goals? Increased ice time."

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:12 AM
  #112
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You are not the first person to mention this. And this will not be the first time I have explained why.

But I will explain again why I left that season out.

That team is no longer here. 07-08 Habs is a different team altogether. I do realize that we did have that same core in 08-09 which I did include. Why did I include that year? Mainly for the purposes of displaying the trend with Boston who has maintained the same core throughout that four year period.

I was using that figure initially because another poster said that the Bruins were a weak team in 2009-2010 and went on to win the cup the next year. I was arguing against his assertion that the Bruins were weak in that season by showing that it was probably just an underachievement season. That same basic club, has gone from 1st, to 6th in that season, to 3rd with a cup, and now to 1st. So 6th place would appear to be the anomaly and just a bad year. For us, our current core is only in its third year, so perhaps it would have been just as well for me to show the Habs since 09-10. But the Bruins core has been around longer. So I included the fourth year back to show that their core has done pretty well.
.

Of course the 07-08 team is no longer here. Neither are any other versions of the habs teams you listed. Ditto for the Boston and Philly teams. Over the past 5 seasons there have been major personnel overhauls as well as new young talent brought in. I bet I can name you at least 5 player changes in each of the last 5 seasons. So, again, your cross section intentionally leaves out the 1st place 07-08 season.

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12-21-2011, 10:18 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
Of course the 07-08 team is no longer here. Neither are any other versions of the habs teams you listed. Ditto for the Boston and Philly teams. Over the past 5 seasons there have been major personnel overhauls as well as new young talent brought in. I bet I can name you at least 5 player changes in each of the last 5 seasons. So, again, your cross section intentionally leaves out the 1st place 07-08 season.
I would argue that we changed our core drastically in 2009, while Boston refined theirs. We are on the third year with our current core. In any case, if we include 2008 that only shows a steeper decline for us.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:18 AM
  #114
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Some fans believe that the Habs are the only ones who "rely on Price to win games or they'd be nothing". I can tell you the mighty Boston Bruins would be nothing without Tim Thomas. Everyone seems to think when other teams win (even great teams) it's because they dominated their opposition. I suggest everyone start watching some Bruins games on non-hab nights. You should have watched the game against Ottawa where Ottawa absolutely dominated Boston with close to 50 shots. Boston won 5-3 because of Thomas. Tim Thomas came out publicly and stated that his team has to stop with the defensive let downs and cut back on the shots against. Without Thomas Boston doesn't win the cup. Without Thomas I would venture to say they don't make it past the first round last season. You get my point.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:25 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
Some fans believe that the Habs are the only ones who "rely on Price to win games or they'd be nothing". I can tell you the mighty Boston Bruins would be nothing without Tim Thomas. .
Certainly, I don't think the Bruins are as mighty as some might think they are either. Or that we have a club that totally sucks. I was not posting that four year trend to show that the Habs totally suck, and that the Bruins are totally awesome. Another poster said that the Bruins had a weak team in 2009-2010 and went on to win a cup, so why can't we. I was arguing that their team was not so weak either. That their team had went 1st the year before that, then 6th in that bad year (which is also our best finish in that time period), 3rd with a cup, and so on. In that time they have made changes that have gradually changed the face of the team, but there was no major blowup.

I really don't think it would take that much to make us more competitive, but I think we have to be willing to be sellers if we are still looking up at 8th by February. I know we have been rocked by injury, and bad luck, and there are always valid excuses for less than ideal results, but after finishing 8th, then 6th and the playoffs being doubtful this year, we have to be willing to assess this team if nothing changes.

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Old
12-21-2011, 10:31 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by jefferiah View Post
Certainly, I don't think the Bruins are as mighty as some might think they are either. Or that we have a club that totally sucks. I was not posting that four year trend to show that the Habs totally suck, and that the Bruins are totally awesome. Another poster said that the Bruins had a weak team in 2009-2010 and went on to win a cup, so why can't we. I was arguing that their team was not so weak either. That their team had went 1st the year before that, then 6th in that bad year (which is also our best finish in that time period), 3rd with a cup, and so on. In that time they have made changes that have gradually changed the face of the team, but there was no major blowup.

I really don't think it would take that much to make us more competitive, but I think we have to be willing to be sellers if we are still looking up at 8th by February. I know we have been rocked by injury, and bad luck, and there are always valid excuses for less than ideal results, but after finishing 8th, then 6th and the playoffs being doubtful this year, we have to be willing to assess this team if nothing changes.
Also keep in mind that Boston didn't tank to win a cup. They retooled much like Philly did. They went the free-agency and trade route. They acquired Peverley, Ryder, Horton, Kelly, etc who all played dominant roles in their cup victory. They traded Kessel to acquire Seguin and had young talent int heir system (Lucic). Shame on those who expect their team to tank and finish last, sell the farm, and rebuild. Philly didn't do it and neither did Boston. And I don't believe the Habs should either. The Habs have great young talent in their system already (Subban, Price, Pacioretty, Emelin, Desharnais) who are now part of the core of this team. It's just a matter of some tweaking and minor retooling. They can start with ridding of the Gomez contract and getting Markov back.

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12-21-2011, 10:36 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
Also keep in mind that Boston didn't tank to win a cup. They retooled much like Philly did.
I agree with you. I am not advocating a total fire sale and rebuild. But I think if we are still looking up at 8th in February it would be wise to do a little selling. And not just scrubs either. One or two players who might have some value. We would not get a high pick out of that, but we get picks, and the immediate result would likely be a fall in the standings which would move our pick up. I would keep all those guys you mentioned. Along with Pleks.

I would consider moving one of Cammy or Gionta, plus Gill, Kostytsin, Campoli, and Moen. We are mostly going to get second round picks from that, but second rounders have been gold for us. And I would anticipate our own pick moving up due to the immediate impact on the team.

I would also see what we can do about Gomez.

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12-21-2011, 10:40 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by jefferiah View Post
I agree with you. I am not advocating a total fire sale and rebuild. But I think if we are still looking up at 8th in February it would be wise to do a little selling. And not just scrubs either. One or two players who might have some value. We would not get a high pick out of that, but we get picks, and the immediate result would likely be a fall in the standings which would move our pick up.
I think a huge move would be to rid the Gomez contract and free up that cash for other players who can impact the team positively. Combine that with getting Markov back and the team would be better. Keep in mind as poorly as everyone thinks Montreal is playing right now, they're losing games by one goal. Only a matter of time before the team starts coming out on the winning end of those one goal games. Like I said before, the habs win 3 or 4 of those OT/So games and they're in 5th place, Martin doesn't get fired, and we're sitting pretty.

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12-21-2011, 10:43 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
I think a huge move would be to rid the Gomez contract and free up that cash for other players who can impact the team positively. .
Definitely. Having more cap space would allow us to recover from a retool more quickly.

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12-21-2011, 10:54 AM
  #120
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I fear a playoff berth would give people the wrong idea about this team. If we do make them, it will be because of a random hot streak, but it won't mean much (see: 09-10 Senators and what happened to them the year after). We need to rebuild and start the rebuild sooner rather than later.

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12-21-2011, 10:58 AM
  #121
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Caution, guys, it's not easy to finish last. There are all those %#@&^ teams in the way, doing 30 mph on a 65 mph highway.

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12-21-2011, 11:01 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Caution, guys, it's not easy to finish last. There are all those %#@&^ teams in the way, doing 30 mph on a 65 mph highway.
Yes, let's go the route of the perennial last place Ny Isles. Yep, they got Tavares. Good for them. Where has that gotten the Isles? Finishing last and getting a high draft pick doesn't guarantee anything unless they're anomalies like Crosby or Ovechkin.

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12-21-2011, 11:02 AM
  #123
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I've never supported tanking and I never will. But right now we're in a position to get a top 5 pick if the teams behind us win their games in hand. I wouldn't tank but I wouldn't change a thing. We may finally have an opportunity to draft the franchise forward we've been looking for. And then we'll actually win something and this French thing will suddenly disappear.

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12-21-2011, 11:12 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
Some fans believe that the Habs are the only ones who "rely on Price to win games or they'd be nothing". I can tell you the mighty Boston Bruins would be nothing without Tim Thomas. Everyone seems to think when other teams win (even great teams) it's because they dominated their opposition. I suggest everyone start watching some Bruins games on non-hab nights. You should have watched the game against Ottawa where Ottawa absolutely dominated Boston with close to 50 shots. Boston won 5-3 because of Thomas. Tim Thomas came out publicly and stated that his team has to stop with the defensive let downs and cut back on the shots against. Without Thomas Boston doesn't win the cup. Without Thomas I would venture to say they don't make it past the first round last season. You get my point.
The Bruins might not be competing for the cup but they'd still be a pretty good team. Rask looks like he'll be a pretty good goalie himself and would be starting if he wasn't stuck behind the best goalie in the league.

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12-21-2011, 11:14 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
Combine that with getting Markov back and the team would be better. Keep in mind as poorly as everyone thinks Montreal is playing right now, they're losing games by one goal.
That is true. And you never know. I am a fan so I am not cheering for a loss. I would love to see this club turn it around. But I also think we have to have a plan in place if we don't. And we have gone a long time without selling, I would hate to miss the opportunity yet again. So I really hope management assesses some stuff in February.

The games are close, but we do keep losing them. Price does a good job of keeping the scoring low for the other team, while we are not doing much scoring. My other fear is that while this team is capable of doing amazing things at times, they never seem to do it on a consistent basis.

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