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Old
12-20-2011, 10:20 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by MillerFan1 View Post
Gotcha. I didnt see it, just saw a tweet about it. Either way, he shouldn't back track on it.
Here's the clip of said statement.

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12-20-2011, 10:20 PM
  #52
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Gotcha. I didnt see it, just saw a tweet about it. Either way, he shouldn't back track on it.
I wonder if NO other NHL owner EVER criticized the team publicly? I can see a vocal owner also being a negative.

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12-20-2011, 10:26 PM
  #53
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I wonder if NO other NHL owner EVER criticized the team publicly? I can see a vocal owner also being a negative.
Don't want him being Jerry Jones but him speaking out when the team performs like that? Nothing wrong with that.

At the very least mayyyyybe it Shows that he isnt as hep on his no negativity outcries from last year.

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12-20-2011, 10:34 PM
  #54
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Here's a first this season: the Sabres are in 10th place and out of the playoffs.

I'm not saying panic, but then again, sitting on our ***** twiddling our thumbs doesn't make sense either. Regier is no fool; he must see there is something fundamentally wrong with this team. But he is cautious to a fault, so I expect little in terms of him finding an antidote to our current malaise. Then again, maybe he'll surprise us all and actually acquire a pivot with talent.

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12-20-2011, 10:47 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by slip View Post
Here's a first this season: the Sabres are in 10th place and out of the playoffs.

I'm not saying panic, but then again, sitting on our ***** twiddling our thumbs doesn't make sense either. Regier is no fool; he must see there is something fundamentally wrong with this team. But he is cautious to a fault, so I expect little in terms of him finding an antidote to our current malaise. Then again, maybe he'll surprise us all and actually acquire a pivot with talent.
It's a tough market for skilled pivots, nobody wants to part with them, and if they do they want a skilled center in return. SO I would be surprised on many levels if he made that happen.

Also, I kind of like that the Sabres have most of their talent stacked on their wings. I just think they need to get faster at center, and more physical. I'd like to see the system tweaked so that the center is first on the puck to bang and start the fore-check, and then cycle up with to provide support along the half boards, so he can be the first one out of the zone to back check. Oshie could play that style, and maybe Stoll but he might be a little slower then they need.

I think the wingers need to keep their d-game simplified (in charge of the points) and have them create more with the puck.

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12-20-2011, 11:39 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by slip View Post
Here's a first this season: the Sabres are in 10th place and out of the playoffs.

I'm not saying panic, but then again, sitting on our ***** twiddling our thumbs doesn't make sense either. Regier is no fool; he must see there is something fundamentally wrong with this team. But he is cautious to a fault, so I expect little in terms of him finding an antidote to our current malaise. Then again, maybe he'll surprise us all and actually acquire a pivot with talent.
Something to think about.

Group A: Vanek, Pommer, Stafford and Roy
Group B: Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, and Selanne


If I took a poll of this board and asked which group they would rather have to anchor their forwards. I would imagine group B would win in a landslide. Yet that group is currently in 29th place in the NHL.

I compared the groups because we've basically only had those 4 in the lineup during the weeks of tough times in the win loss column.

The difference between the teams is we have a lot more total talent. Its just out injured at the moment. We will be getting a lot of reinforcements as players return from injury.

The point being is, no matter how good your top guys are, you need a well built team with depth of talent to have sustained success.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-20-2011 at 11:55 PM.
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Old
12-20-2011, 11:51 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Something to think about.

Group A: Vanek, Pommer, Stafford and Roy
Group B: Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, and Selanne


If I took a poll of this board and asked which group they would rather have to anchor their forwards. I would imagine group B would win in a landslide. Yet that group is currently in 29th place in the NHL.

I compared the groups because we've basically have only had those 4 in the lineup during the weeks of tough times in the win loss column.

The difference between the teams is we have a lot more total talent. Its just out injured at the moment. We will be getting a lot of reinforcements as players return from injury.

The point being is, no matter how good your top guys are, you need a well built team with depth of talent to have sustained success.
That is a very interesting point of view.

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12-20-2011, 11:55 PM
  #58
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This team has problems and I now fear its composition is flawed. TV and Roy do not play well together yet we are back to that pairing. Personally, I would like to see mgmt dangle Roy on the market mid season and see who may be interested in biting. I think he plays a selfish, me first style that may have worked when he was younger but increasingly results in bad decisions as he gets older (and slower).

It's interesting to recall how Vanek and Stafford played later half of last season while Roy was out.

Stafford's confidence is at zero and it shows in his game. The strategy seems to be to play him until he comes around. But he's just going from bad to worse. Which limits options to either play him, sit him or trade him because I don't see them sending him down to Rochester to see if he can get his game back there.

I asked Santa last night to send either Kopitar, Getzlaf, Datsyuk, Ryan or Staal to the Sabres for Xmas. He replied, in your dreams a**hole.

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12-20-2011, 11:58 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by littletonhockeycoach View Post
This team has problems and I now fear its composition is flawed. TV and Roy do not play well together yet we are back to that pairing. Personally, I would like to see mgmt dangle Roy on the market mid season and see who may be interested in biting. I think he plays a selfish, me first style that may have worked when he was younger but increasingly results in bad decisions as he gets older (and slower).

It's interesting to recall how Vanek and Stafford played later half of last season while Roy was out.

Stafford's confidence is at zero and it shows in his game. The strategy seems to be to play him until he comes around. But he's just going from bad to worse. Which limits options to either play him, sit him or trade him because I don't see them sending him down to Rochester to see if he can get his game back there.

I asked Santa last night to send either Kopitar, Getzlaf, Datsyuk, Ryan or Staal to the Sabres for Xmas. He replied, in your dreams a**hole.

The only difference between Vanek/Stafford with Roy -vs- without him was Vanek became a better playmaker because he handled the puck more.


Stafford played well all of last season and had a lot of success with Roy when he was in the lineup.

Vanek had roughly the same goal scoring pace with Roy as he did without him last year. What changed was his playmaking due to him carrying the puck more. It led to a jump in assists. Vanek also really came into his own with Pommer. That needs to be remembered by more posters. Many seem to think it happen with Vanek doing it all on his own.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-21-2011 at 12:17 AM.
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Old
12-21-2011, 01:29 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Something to think about.

Group A: Vanek, Pommer, Stafford and Roy
Group B: Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, and Selanne


If I took a poll of this board and asked which group they would rather have to anchor their forwards. I would imagine group B would win in a landslide. Yet that group is currently in 29th place in the NHL.

I compared the groups because we've basically only had those 4 in the lineup during the weeks of tough times in the win loss column.

The difference between the teams is we have a lot more total talent. Its just out injured at the moment. We will be getting a lot of reinforcements as players return from injury.

The point being is, no matter how good your top guys are, you need a well built team with depth of talent to have sustained success.
Anaheim was a playoff team last year with pretty much the same roster.... Hiller being off his game is a much bigger reason for their struggles IMO. Their core is so much better then ours but 4 players does not make a team. What bothers me is that our callups from Rochester have been our best players night after night and the core have been invisible.

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12-21-2011, 02:26 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
The only difference between Vanek/Stafford with Roy -vs- without him was Vanek became a better playmaker because he handled the puck more.


Stafford played well all of last season and had a lot of success with Roy when he was in the lineup.

Vanek had roughly the same goal scoring pace with Roy as he did without him last year. What changed was his playmaking due to him carrying the puck more. It led to a jump in assists. Vanek also really came into his own with Pommer. That needs to be remembered by more posters. Many seem to think it happen with Vanek doing it all on his own.
Eh. I'd say Vanek handling the puck did more for both his game and the overall team than pad stats. Agreed with Stafford though.

Also, for the record, the two guys to benefit most from Roy's injury besides Vanek were Ennis and Gerbe.

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12-21-2011, 08:03 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by SECRET SQUIRREL View Post
Anaheim was a playoff team last year with pretty much the same roster.... Hiller being off his game is a much bigger reason for their struggles IMO. Their core is so much better then ours but 4 players does not make a team. What bothers me is that our callups from Rochester have been our best players night after night and the core have been invisible.
exactly this. Derek Whitmore shouldn't be the only guy in everybody's Good column.

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Old
12-21-2011, 08:26 AM
  #63
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exactly this. Derek Whitmore shouldn't be the only guy in everybody's Good column.
He was in the good column because the expectation level for him was zero.

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12-21-2011, 09:14 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by SECRET SQUIRREL View Post
Anaheim was a playoff team last year with pretty much the same roster.... Hiller being off his game is a much bigger reason for their struggles IMO. Their core is so much better then ours but 4 players does not make a team.
Yeah they were a playoff team last year and lost in the first round just like we did. The year before that they didn't even make the playoffs. Now they are one of the worst teams in the league. You want to attribute this year to Hiller struggling? Thats fine. But is that any different than Miller struggling for us? The answer is no its not.


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What bothers me is that our callups from Rochester have been our best players night after night and the core have been invisible
Not really.

On defense McNabb has been better than Grags and Weber but not the regulars.

Up front none of the callups have been near the level of play Vanek/Pommer. Not that Roy or Stafford have been world beaters or anything but none of the callups are really outperforming them. Kassian is the only one that came close. He had a stretch of good play in his first 6gms (3g 2a 5pts) but has cooled off considerably in the last 6 games (0g 1a 1pt).

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12-21-2011, 09:17 AM
  #65
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Not really.

On defense McNabb has been better than Grags and Weber but not the regulars.

Up front none of the callups have been near the level of play Vanek/Pommer. Kassian had a stretch of good play in his first 6gms (3g 2a 5pts) but has cooled off considerably in the last 6 games (0g 1a 1pt).

Not that Roy or Stafford have been world beaters or anything but none of the callups are really outperforming them. Kassian is the only one that came close during the first half of his callup.
Agreed on the defense.

Offense I generally agree but I think Kassian has overall been our 3rd or 4th best forward since he was called up. Even not showing up on the scoresheet much in the last 6 games, I thought he had an off-game last night but he's been very good ever since being called up.

Like you said, nobody is touching Pominville or Vanek but you could make a case for Kassian being right behind them since he's been called up. Tropp was better than a lot of our "regulars" when he was up and healthy as well.

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12-21-2011, 09:20 AM
  #66
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Agreed on the defense.

Offense I generally agree but I think Kassian has overall been our 3rd or 4th best forward since he was called up. Even not showing up on the scoresheet much in the last 6 games, I thought he had an off-game last night but he's been very good ever since being called up.

Like you said, nobody is touching Pominville or Vanek but you could make a case for Kassian being right behind them since he's been called up. Tropp was better than a lot of our "regulars" when he was up and healthy as well.
He was better than some of our regulars but the previous poster was refering to the core in his post. I think you would agree Tropp's play wasn't at that level.

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12-21-2011, 01:33 PM
  #67
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Kassian is the only one that came close. He had a stretch of good play in his first 6gms (3g 2a 5pts) but has cooled off considerably in the last 6 games (0g 1a 1pt).
Putting him with Gaustad is the latest on the long list of Lindy's blunders this season. That line is simply too slow to be effective, especially with Adam becoming Foligno last night. I can't remember who it was against, but I remember Kass getting a shift with Ennis and Roy, and looking good because his size/strength was creating space for his linemates, and their speed made things easier in transition.

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12-21-2011, 01:46 PM
  #68
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The only difference between Vanek/Stafford with Roy -vs- without him was Vanek became a better playmaker because he handled the puck more.
Precisely. The problem is Roy not TV. TV is a better player w/o Roy.

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Stafford played well all of last season and had a lot of success with Roy when he was in the lineup.
I don't know about the contract year label that gets assigned to these guys. They are professional athletes and down performance times happen. It's all about confidence and Stafford doesn't have any right now and throwing him out on the ice expecting him to just turn things on isn't working. He's not where he should be on the ice, frequently not ready for the pass or shot with his stick down, is making terrible mental errors (blind behind the back passes to no one) and loosing the confidence of his teammates. Ruff needs to change his approach with Stafford, not necessarily trade him. But he and Roy are in a downward spiral as things stand and in a negative feedback loop.


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Vanek had roughly the same goal scoring pace with Roy as he did without him last year. What changed was his playmaking due to him carrying the puck more. It led to a jump in assists. Vanek also really came into his own with Pommer. That needs to be remembered by more posters. Many seem to think it happen with Vanek doing it all on his own.
Agree with you about the Vanek/Pommer combination. Too bad Adam didn't work out or Leino. But Roy is not the answer.

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12-21-2011, 01:53 PM
  #69
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Eh. I'd say Vanek handling the puck did more for both his game and the overall team than pad stats. Agreed with Stafford though.

Also, for the record, the two guys to benefit most from Roy's injury besides Vanek were Ennis and Gerbe.
Good point about Ennis and Gerbe. Too bad injuries have shot that plan to heck.

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12-21-2011, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Something to think about.

Group A: Vanek, Pommer, Stafford and Roy
Group B: Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, and Selanne


If I took a poll of this board and asked which group they would rather have to anchor their forwards. I would imagine group B would win in a landslide. Yet that group is currently in 29th place in the NHL.

I compared the groups because we've basically only had those 4 in the lineup during the weeks of tough times in the win loss column.

The difference between the teams is we have a lot more total talent. Its just out injured at the moment. We will be getting a lot of reinforcements as players return from injury.

The point being is, no matter how good your top guys are, you need a well built team with depth of talent to have sustained success.
Very interesting point. Although I will say this... The difference between the two is that Group B has already won a Cup (minus Ryan). The same can not be said about Group A.

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12-21-2011, 02:05 PM
  #71
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Someone might want to put the stats for teams making the playoffs based on record at the Christmas break in front of Ted and Terry. They're in 10th as of today....

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12-21-2011, 02:23 PM
  #72
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Someone might want to put the stats for teams making the playoffs based on record at the Christmas break in front of Ted and Terry. They're in 10th as of today....
What's that going to do after last year, when they overcame even greater odds? They truly think that the playoffs won't be an issue once they get healthy. I'm not saying they're wrong or right, but it's definitely their though process.

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12-21-2011, 02:34 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Something to think about.

Group A: Vanek, Pommer, Stafford and Roy
Group B: Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, and Selanne


If I took a poll of this board and asked which group they would rather have to anchor their forwards. I would imagine group B would win in a landslide. Yet that group is currently in 29th place in the NHL.

I compared the groups because we've basically only had those 4 in the lineup during the weeks of tough times in the win loss column.

The difference between the teams is we have a lot more total talent. Its just out injured at the moment. We will be getting a lot of reinforcements as players return from injury.

The point being is, no matter how good your top guys are, you need a well built team with depth of talent to have sustained success.
To be honest Josh, I have no idea what ails Anaheim, although I would venture to guess it has a lot more to do with their defense corps rather than who mans the third and 4th lines. The core group of forwards you mention won Anaheim the cup, but they also had Pronger and Niedermayer anchoring the blue line back then, not old man Loods and a banged up Visnovovsky.

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12-21-2011, 02:38 PM
  #74
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Quote:
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What's that going to do after last year, when they overcame even greater odds? They truly think that the playoffs won't be an issue once they get healthy. I'm not saying they're wrong or right, but it's definitely their though process.
It seems both plausible that they would expect to get back into it with near-complete heath AND faulty to expect them to overcome the same sort of hole they were in last season and make an inprobable run. There is nothing to say they can get back to near complete good health and honestly, is there any sort of external emotional wave to ride like they had with the Pegula rumors and eventual ownership change? I'd say no.

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12-21-2011, 02:49 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by SECRET SQUIRREL View Post
Anaheim was a playoff team last year with pretty much the same roster.... Hiller being off his game is a much bigger reason for their struggles IMO. Their core is so much better then ours but 4 players does not make a team. What bothers me is that our callups from Rochester have been our best players night after night and the core have been invisible.
Vanek and Pominville have been invisible?

Really?

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