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The 2011 Single-A Draft (roster, picks, discussion, everything)

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Old
12-26-2011, 11:22 PM
  #126
chaosrevolver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Do you have the book Kings of the Ice Chaos? They have a little write up for each of those three Soviet guys, and I'd be glad to share the little bits of info it contains if you don't have it yourself.
Can you PM me some of it? I saw it the other day, but no I don't have it.

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Old
12-27-2011, 12:01 PM
  #127
seventieslord
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20+ wins by a goalie in IIHF events, all-time, sorted by wins:

Vladislav Tretiak 103-16-10
Jiri Holecek 49-10-8
Tommy Salo 46-20-6
Vikrot Konovalenko 44-3-3
Vladimir Dzurilla 44-13-4
Dominik Hasek 39-37-13
******** 33-16-7
Sean Burke 30-1-7
Nikolai Puchkov 30-5-4
Peter Lindmark 29-23-11
********** 28-3-0
Arturs Irbe 28-16-9
Petr Briza 27-18-3
Honken Holmqvist 26-18-3
********* 24-4-3
Jiri Kralik 23-8-5
Roman Cechmanek 23-10-0
Bohumil Modry 23-11-6
*********** 23-30-8
Jimmy Foster 21-5-3
*********** 21-8-2
Roman Turek 21-9-3
*********** 21-16-1

we select Petr Briza.

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Old
12-27-2011, 12:02 PM
  #128
seventieslord
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He of 1000+ pro wins as a coach, John Brophy. More to come.

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Old
12-27-2011, 12:07 PM
  #129
Rob Scuderi
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D Amby Moran


Big defenseman who seems to have been more valued for his offense than defense. He didn't make much an impact in the NHL like Matte but he scored a pretty decent amount during his time in the WCHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoH
Amby Moran grew up in Manitoba and played with the Winnipeg Winnipegs in 1919-20 before moving on to play with the Brandon Elks, who played in the Allan Cup in 1921. the next four years of his career was with the Regina Capitals of the WCHL.

Moran saw his first NHL action in 1926-27 when he appeared in 12 games with the Montreal Canadiens who at the time were led by such legends as Howie Morenz and Aurel Joliat.
He scored 5 goals in 5 games during that '21 Allan Cup.

Quote:
It is certain that the boys bearing the big "M" flash fast blades, and with them now is Amby Moran, former terror of the plains, whose furious rushes struck fear into some of the more timid icemen. Moran has been going well since linking up with the Maroons and the Calgary fans will welcome the big boy tonight.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...by+moran&hl=en

Quote:
Amby Moran, stocky defenceman of the Maroons, got in some of his Firpo-like rushes. Boston got an extra two minutes on his penalty for a display of temper.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...by+moran&hl=en
I had no idea what Firpo meant but it seems to refer to Luis Angel Firpo who was a boxer at the time and nicknamed "The Bull of The Pampas".

Quote:
It remained for Moran to drive the nail into the Eskimos' hope chest. He instigated an individual rush straight up the center of the ice, and when just beyond the defense, let go a rifle shot that whizzed past Talbot a mile a minute. It was a wonderful end to a wonderful game. Moran's drive was the fastest of the night, and the twine sagged before its momentum.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...by+moran&hl=en

Quote:
The rambunctious Amby Moran...
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...by+moran&hl=en

Quote:
Amby Moran was at the top of his form, breaking through the squad any time he pleased.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...by+moran&hl=en

Quote:
The ice was remarkable keen and the athletes hit up a dizzy clip, with Charlie McVeigh, Amby Moran, and George Hay providing the electrifying hockey on the Regina side...Then George Hay made it 2-0, following up a rebound one of Moran's bullet drives.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...by+moran&hl=en

He's listed a defenseman in all the articles which included a starting lineup and LoH, Wikipedia, and hockey-reference only have him as a defenseman as well.

Just how good was Moran's offense?

Amby finished second in defensemen scoring with 15-8-23 in the WCHL's 1923 season. That puts him behind only Bullet Joe Simpson's 15-14-29 year and just ahead of Matte's 15-5-20 year.

This was his only top 5 season and the next year he was limited to just six games. The '25 season didn't start well either and after 6 pointless games he was moved to Regina which seemed to be a boon for him finishing the year with 10 goals and 1 assist in 15 games for the Maroons.

He eventually got into 36 total NHL games but produced barely anything at all with just 1-1-2 in those 36 games.


Last edited by Rob Scuderi: 12-27-2011 at 05:36 PM.
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Old
12-27-2011, 12:09 PM
  #130
seventieslord
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Yeah, he got overpaid, but in terms of the points he's put up in his career, the number of games it's taken, and the era, he might be the best offensive defenseman left. Michal Roszival, D.

Roszival is also 35th in post lockout TOI/GP with 22:33/game. 4th among available players. And 1st among those who have played for teams that were above average. Career average: 21:30.

Roszival has averaged 22 adjESP/season and 12 adjPPP/season in his 700+ games. he is a decent 2nd PP unit guy at the A level.

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Old
12-27-2011, 12:35 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
20+ wins by a goalie in IIHF events, all-time, sorted by wins:

Vladislav Tretiak 103-16-10
Jiri Holecek 49-10-8
Tommy Salo 46-20-6
Vikrot Konovalenko 44-3-3
Vladimir Dzurilla 44-13-4
Dominik Hasek 39-37-13
******** 33-16-7
Sean Burke 30-1-7
Nikolai Puchkov 30-5-4
Peter Lindmark 29-23-11
********** 28-3-0
Arturs Irbe 28-16-9
Petr Briza 27-18-3
Honken Holmqvist 26-18-3
********* 24-4-3
Jiri Kralik 23-8-5
Roman Cechmanek 23-10-0
Bohumil Modry 23-11-6
*********** 23-30-8
Jimmy Foster 21-5-3
*********** 21-8-2
Roman Turek 21-9-3
*********** 21-16-1

we select Petr Briza.
I know a finnish goalie I would rather take but other than that, good choice.

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Old
12-27-2011, 12:57 PM
  #132
Rob Scuderi
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G Frank Stocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander
Frank S. Stocking, who played the 2nd most games among goaltenders in the 1890s. He pitched the idea of a hockey net on a steel frame to the ECHA in 1897 and they implemented the idea immediately, giving up the two poles convention previously used.

How good was the Quebec starter? There were none who beat him out for the job for the better part of a decade in Quebec. More research needed, of course, which is why he's such a B draft candidate
Quote:
Stocking played with the old Quebec Bulldogs of the same era as the Silver Seven and his invention of the nets was the first concrete effort to settle the disputes that invariably came when goals were scored...It isn't important and won't alone get him into the Hall of Fame but Frank Stocking, New York-born and a star with the St. Nicholas club there, was the first American player to make a name for himself in Canadian hockey.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=2215,5877955
This article was claiming that Stocking was deserving of induction into the HHOF.


Last edited by Rob Scuderi: 12-27-2011 at 01:49 PM.
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Old
12-27-2011, 01:12 PM
  #133
chaosrevolver
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The Bursa Janissaries select:

C: Anders Andersson
D: Tom Laidlaw
LW: Earl Balfour

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Old
12-27-2011, 01:13 PM
  #134
Rob Scuderi
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LW Steve Bozek

331 points in 641GP
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoH
Left-winger Steve Bozek was a good skater with a quick release who lasted over 600 games in the NHL. His anticipation and speed made him a dangerous foe on the power play and a useful penalty killer...Bozek was a solid two way forward on the club for four and a half years. In 1986, he contributed eight points in 14 games when Calgary reached the Stanley Cup finals.

Bozek skated briefly with the St. Louis Blues late in 1987-88 season then joined the Vancouver Canucks via trade. He was a fine checker and face-off specialist while adding 46 goals in his three seasons with the club. Following the 1990-91 season, he helped Team Canada win the silver medal at the World Championships.

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Old
12-27-2011, 01:26 PM
  #135
BillyShoe1721
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RW Valeri Bure


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12-27-2011, 01:43 PM
  #136
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One of my favorite hockey names of all time....

LW Valeri Zelepukin


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12-27-2011, 01:50 PM
  #137
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D Paul Mara


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Old
12-27-2011, 02:01 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
20+ wins by a goalie in IIHF events, all-time, sorted by wins:

Vladislav Tretiak 103-16-10
Jiri Holecek 49-10-8
Tommy Salo 46-20-6
Vikrot Konovalenko 44-3-3
Vladimir Dzurilla 44-13-4
Dominik Hasek 39-37-13
******** 33-16-7
Sean Burke 30-1-7
Nikolai Puchkov 30-5-4
Peter Lindmark 29-23-11
********** 28-3-0
Arturs Irbe 28-16-9
Petr Briza 27-18-3
Honken Holmqvist 26-18-3
********* 24-4-3
Jiri Kralik 23-8-5
Roman Cechmanek 23-10-0
Bohumil Modry 23-11-6
*********** 23-30-8
Jimmy Foster 21-5-3
*********** 21-8-2
Roman Turek 21-9-3
*********** 21-16-1

we select Petr Briza.
Over a decade on the Czechoslovakia/Czech Republic national team, but about half of that as Hasek's backup.

Named best player of the playoffs 3 times in Czechoslovakia/Czech Republic.

8 times top 10 in Czech Golden Hockey Stick voting, finishing as high as 3rd 3 times.

In his last season of 2005-06, he won player of the year, top goalie, best player of the playoffs, and finished 5th in Czech Golden Hockey Stick voting (the only player from the CR league in the top 10).

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Old
12-27-2011, 03:10 PM
  #139
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Quebec selects LW Jaroslav Pouzar



1976 World Championship Gold Medal
1977 World Championship Gold Medal
1978 Czech Extraliga Leading Scorer
1984 Stanley Cup Champion
1985 Stanley Cup Champion
1987 Stanley Cup Champion

Oilers Legends:
Quote:
When Jaroslav Pouzar was brought over to the Edmonton Oilers from his native Czechoslovakia, much fanfare was made about the Oiler's newest gunner.

Pouzar came over in 1982, and was expected to finally fill the whole on Wayne Gretzky's and Jari Kurri's left wing.

"When he came over in 1982, they made a big deal out of it in Edmonton, boasting they had brought in this great, strong left winger from Czechoslovakia who was going to score 50 goals with Wayne Gretzky and Jari Kurri" said Gretzky.

However there was a small problem. Pouzar, who was a veteran of international hockey at age 30, had trouble adapting to the Oilers style of play, which differed greatly from his many years of training in Czechoslovakia.

"I always tell people that Jaroslav Pouzar brought the left-wing lock to the NHL" jokes Gretzky. "With the Oilers we always forechecked the first two guys in, the third guy high. This guy (Pouzar) came to our team, and we had no sense of where he was going to be. It took us 40 or 50 games to realize that the reason he was in the positions he was in was that he was playing in a Czechoslovakian left-wing lock. It took us a whole year to catch on to this!"

Pouzar also had tremendous difficulty adjusting to North American life as well. He spoke next to no English and was undoubtedly homesick for much of his stay in the NHL.

That first year in the league Pouzar, who Gretzky described as "the physically strongest player I ever played with"
RW Horace Gaul



1905 Stanley Cup Champion
7th in NHA Scoring, 1910
1911 Stanely Cup Champion

Hockey Historysis
Quote:
Horace Gaul was never much of a scorer. He was never near the league lead in offence, even with the leagues he played in being very small and having only a few forwards on each team to compete with. He did score a team-leading 20 goals in 12 games for Haileybury in 1909/10, which was seventh in the NHA (but only just over half of Newsy Lalonde's league-leading total of 38), so he certainly wasn't hopeless with the puck. He was noted as being a clever and tricky stickhandler, but there must have been more than this to his game; otherwise he wouldn't have been in such demand every year.

Gaul's real talent was on defence. He was noted as being an excellent defensive player, a diligent checker. That's why there was always a team ready to insert him into the lineup. He was never a star, just a hard-working, professional player. He checked his way into a contract every season.

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Old
12-27-2011, 03:18 PM
  #140
BenchBrawl
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Montreal select Ethan Moreau LW

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Old
12-27-2011, 03:33 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Quebec selects LW Jaroslav Pouzar
Here's an excellent blog post by an Oilers fan remembering Pouzar.

http://oildroppings.blogspot.com/2008/09/pouzar.html

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Old
12-27-2011, 03:33 PM
  #142
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Montreal select Brad May LW

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12-27-2011, 03:40 PM
  #143
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Montreal select Sean Avery

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Old
12-27-2011, 04:12 PM
  #144
VanIslander
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Love these picks today.

Amby Moran - The bio shows him to be a good rushing defenseman, worthy of at least Double-A draft duty.

Horace Gaul He was on my radar. Enough info backs up the pick but more would be nice.

Frank Stocking A columnist in 1951 mentioned Stocking as someone who should have been inducted?! That just makes me want to learn more about him than ever! There's that essay about him I mentioned last year: "Quebec's Gallant Goalie--Frank Stocking, 1873-1961," which was distributed in printed form by Bill Fitsell at a 2008 SIHR meeting; Fitsell apparently told the story to Marc Durand of the Radio-Canada (CBC's French network). Anyone with information as to its whereabouts is again urged to let us know! That essay might hold the key to his promotion to the AA or even AAA, hell, the MLD! It's not inconceivable, given the dearth of info we've uncovered about Quebec Bulldogs hockey history on this subboard.

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12-27-2011, 04:48 PM
  #145
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The Minutemen select 6'1 198 lbs. Kevin Bieksa, the 7-year NHL defenseman who led all Canucks skaters in ice time in their 2010 Stanley Cup Finals run, demonstrating competitiveness as well as scoring 10 points that postseason, leading the club's blueliners in postseason goals scored, plus-minus and penalties. He was arguably the team's most important defenseman on a playoff drive that came one game short of the cup. He has 23 career playoff points in 53 NHL playoff games. He has had two 40+ point regular seasons and in another season he was 2nd in league plus-minus on a president's trophy winning team. After the cup run he signed a 5-year contract that paid him $7 million in the first year, $23 million overall, to make him the club's highest paid defenseman in terms of cap hit per season for 2011/2012, signifying his value to the organization.



Quote:
Initiates contact from the back end. Owns a good shot from the point. Is defensively responsible and able to log big minutes. Can fight, too.
http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.cgi?2544

Quote:
Bieksa is known as a two-way defenceman with the Canucks, capable of playing in all situations. Throughout his NHL career, he has been placed on shutdown pairing with such defensive partners as Willie Mitchell and Dan Hamhuis. Offensively, he regularly jumps into the rush and has led the Canucks in defensive scoring in 2006–07 and 2008–09. His play is characterized by aggressive and competitive components. He also earned a reputation as a fighter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Bieksa

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12-27-2011, 05:29 PM
  #146
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The Minutemen select 6'2, 223 lbs. Andrej Meszaros, the 7-year NHL defenseman who won the Flyers best blueliner award at the end of the 2010-11 regular season on a team that featured Pronger and Timonen. That very year he went on in the postseason to lead all Philly skaters in playoff minutes played (26:01) in an 11-game playoff run that he scored 6 points in. He had 7 points in a Stanley Cup Finals run with Ottawa in 2007. He has had four 30+ point seasons and twice has been top-5 in NHL plus-minus. He has been a solid second pairing guy on a couple of very good teams. He has a long history of respect and solid play. The WHL all-star has a banner hanging at Pacific Coliseum in honour of a junior career there which saw him become a 1st round NHL pick. He has also captained his country's world juniors team. The 2006 NHL all-rookie team selection scored two goals in the Young Guns all-star team in his sophomore season. He was the youngest Slovak ever at the 2004 world championships as an 18 year old and the second youngest Olympian at the 2006 Games behind only Malkin, scoring two points in the tourney and a plus plus-minus. He played in the 2010 Olympics, helping beat Russia and Sweden before losing the Bronze medal game to Finland.



Quote:
Owns the ability to lead the rush and move the puck with swift passing skills. Can fire the puck from the point and has ideal size for an NHL defenseman. Is willing to play the body. Is quite adept at playing on his off-side (right).
http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.cgi?4699


Last edited by VanIslander: 12-27-2011 at 08:03 PM.
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12-27-2011, 07:42 PM
  #147
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The Minutemen select Top-6 role winger Martin Erat, who has averaged 50+ points per season over a 7-year span in the NHL despite a series of nagging injuries. In 2006 he scored a goal and an assist in winning an Olympic medal, won another medal in the 2006 world championships with 8 points in 9 games, then began his career year in the NHL 2006/07 in which he would score 57 points in just 68 games. He scored 6 points in 6 games in the 2008 world championships and represented his country in the 2010 Olympics as well. He has 425 points in 644 NHL games.



Quote:
Has offensive creativity and excellent playmaking skills. Has a low center of gravity, tremendous quickness, shiftiness and a flair for spectacular goals. Great in open ice, he can play either wing position.
http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.cgi?2268

Quote:
... known for his wrist shot and his speed.

Erat played for the Czech Republic at the World Junior Championships in 2001. He helped the team to win the gold medal. In 2006, Erat played for the bronze medal winning Czech national team at the Turin Olympics. In the same year, Erat was a member of the silver medal winning team from the IIHF World Championships in Riga, Latvia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Erat

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12-28-2011, 12:10 AM
  #148
seventieslord
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of last years's draftees:

- 9 remain from the MLD
- 6 remain from the AAA
- 5 remain from the AA
- 7 remain from the mock A draft, or at least my portion of it.

Of those 27, I would say I am at least semi-interested in 12 of them. I wonder who else is. because i can't have them all.

**By the way, about Bob Woytowich, I just wanted to mention that in addition to being huge for his expansion teams, he did hold down an NHL job for two full seasons prior to expansion, when there were only 36 such jobs. I like this pick. **

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Didn't you click his link? It's a knitting technique.

Have you canucks really never heard of ribbing haha? I swear you're just joshing with us at this point.
no, I was joking, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Armytage was a Hedberg 2010 B-draft pick we never considered last draft; if we had, we would have nabbed him I'd like to think, though it was a process of discovery: the more I researched him, the better he looked!
Interesting point of comparison, since we have to have some way to try to gauge his offensive worth:

Dan Bain had 100 points in 35 career manitoba league games. Armytage also played 35 games and had 56 points. It could be said that he has an offensive value somewhere around 50% of Bain. (I say 50% and not 56, because he played on the same team and was likely the beneficiary of playing with a superstar). People's opinions on Bain really vary, but he typically ranges from a poor man's 2nd liner or a good 4th liner.

Think of a good sampling of some guys from the past four decades who are 3rd-4th liners and the offense they provided in the NHL. Take 50% of that, and that's what you might say Armytage could have provided, for 7-8 years.

Quote:
Jiri Novak, however, we decided against early on in the AA, due in part to positioning. He's a C whereas Eduard is a RW, our team had McLea at center when we made the decision. We went with Jonsson for 2nd line C, and Drobny and Dey as extra forwards, so really the only mistake we could have made was choosing Jonsson over Jiri Novak for the 2nd line role, and Jiri is small and been injured by the rough international play of Canadians whereas Jonsson brought leadership. In hindsight, I'd draft Jiri over Jonsson, not over Eduard, if anything.
Fair enough, I wasn't thinking about positions. I think Jiri is a far more accomplished player than Eduard though, all things considered.

Quote:
Doak is a longtime defensive defenseman on one of the top teams of the decade, with a boatload of intangibles and playoff experience, and quality references, not to mention great plus-minus. What is there not to like? I dunno his ice time, but it's the only statistic that could possibly explain why he isn't a MLD-comparable pick in a defensive defenseman 5/6 and pk role. He is comparable to several top-1000 picks stay-at-home defensemen.
Doak averaged 17.74 minutes a game in his 735 post-expansion games. His career path is actually pretty weird.

Prior to expansion, he had to fight for every minute he got, as he was young and establishing himself, and there weren't very many jobs.

In the 1968, 1969 and 1970 seasons, Doak averaged 18.03 minutes a game but also averaged just 41 games over those three years. In 1970 he was briefly in the CHL but I am not sure why. he appears to have ranked #5, 6, 5 in terms of icetime and importance to the team in these years.

In 1971 Doak was a canuck, and of course, the team was terrible. he did get more minutes for them, 21.17. Most of this was because he took on a greater PK role than he ever had. He was still their #4 in total TOI, behind Tallon, Quinn and an undrafted.

In 1972 Doak was very little-used for 5 games with the Canucks prior to being moved to the Rangers. With the Rangers, Doak was the clear #5 with 16.85 minutes a game, behind their awesomely deep top-4 of Park, Neilson, Seiling and Rolfe.

Doak spent most of 1973 with Detroit, playing 15.91 minutes a game for 44 games. Despite this really low figure (typically a low-end #6 would play these minutes), he was their #5 guy, behind the Bergmans, Stackhouse and an undrafted, who all played at least 22.

Doak went back to Boston for the 1974 and 1975 seasons, and though they were deep, they weren't any deeper than the Rangers. yet, they played him for a measly 12.3 minutes per game for 109 games. He was the clear #6 both seasons, behind the same top-5 of Orr, Vadnais, D.Smith and two undrafteds.

Amazing what losing Bobby Orr does to a defense corps. Orr was injured most of 1976 and was a non-factor. Doak, with 21.85 minutes a game, picked up much of that slack, and was their clear #3 after Park and Dallas Smith. Boston was a 113-point, 3rd-overall team. This is probably Doak's high water mark.

The next three seasons, Doak averaged 20.25 minutes a game and the Bruins averaged 106 points a season. He ranked #5, 4, 6 on the team in these seasons.

In 1980 and 1981, Doak was getting old and just hung on as a #7, getting 13 minutes a game.

It is really the 1968-1979 seasons that define him, not the two seasons before or after. I would say he's a better player than Gord Lane - he had five seasons where he got more icetime than Lane's career high of 19.0 minutes a game, achieved with a brutal Capitals team.

What can his TOI tell us? He did play on some deep teams. During his career, his teams were 29% better than average at even strength and 4% better on special teams. Avoiding the obvious players, it looks clear he was not as highly regarded as the likes of Dallas Smith, Rick Smith, Mike Milbury, Don Awrey, Pat Quinn, Dale Tallon, Dale Rolfe. Thommie Bergman, but also a half-dozen undrafteds - although it should be said that none of these undrafteds would be glaringly bad picks if taken right now. I would definitely not call him a steal or a potential MLD player because he does belong a tier under guys like R. Smith and Quinn. I would hesitate to "pan" this pick too, because based on his bio he had attributes that were appreciated, and in a Butcher/Marchment kind of way, can be a "niche" player to fill a specific role. He probably belongs right where you took him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Sometimes bad picks deserve to fall through the floor in subsequent years. Three MLD 2010 picks have just been taken in the 2011 Single-A draft, and their worth is still questionable.

Two of these three made their ATD sub-board debut last year on papershoes' Soviet-themed Cornwall Royals, a squad I had assassinated as having good, interesting, bad and ugly picks.

Wingers Kuzin and Krylov were among the 'ugly' picks:

Ukolov I'd deemed 'interesting':

I really, really look forward to it when chaosrevolver says "bios still to come". I found nothing more on these guys when I had researched them. I think so many Soviets had been underappreciated (we've come a long way to giving them their due), but average Soviet internationals of the fifties were not great, and any one or two seasons of play in the 1950s Soviet domestic league is not even equivalent to citing today's ECHL in supporting a present day pick. So if a single Soviet league all-star selection from the 50s and three years on the national team is all they've got, they're fool's gold, even at this level, material for the Undrafteds thread or a B-draft or at least the bench as extra skaters.
All these guys deserved to fall far, and they did. Not sure what else you are looking for there. There should be a steady stream of soviet players selected right from pick #1 to now. There's no "invisible line" separating the good ones from the "fool's gold". If someone looks like the next best soviet and there's reason to believe they have as much potential valie as the next best NHLer, then take them!

Krylov was by far my #1 choice for a spare in this draft because he was such a team man, multi-positional, and so old school:

RW/D Yuri Krylov



- A 1956 USSR All-Star, this versatile player represented the Soviets in 70 International games, 37 of which were significant, and scored 15 goals. He scored 140 goals in 344 Russian League games, and placed 5th and 6th in scoring in 1955 and 1956. See what Kings Of the Ice has to say about him: "...immediately caught the attention of Soviet hockey fans when he stepped onto the ice in the Dynamo lineup and showed off his explosive starting speed and extraordinary stability on the ice. Although not very tall, he was strong and had broad shoulders. It was a rare bodycheck that could knock him off his feet. He had teriffic maneuverability and could stop on a dime. It was common to see him streaking away from his pursuer and then all of a sudden put on the brakes. The unprepared pursuer would zip past him, then he gained a couple of seconds to pass to his partner... a formidable forward, though not a natural scorer... powerful, and often unexpected, shot... didn't shun tough body contact and often seemed to seek it out. Tossing caution to the wind, he would thinkl nothing of crashing into tough defensemen who were barring his way to the net... played without shoulder pads for a long time... was one of the few forwards who worked as hard at defense as at offense. Meeting his opponents at the blueline, he was ingenious at taking away the puck, and he would block shots with his body. When he lost some of his speed due to age, he switched over to defense...even in his new position, his performance was exceptional... a never-say-die player... when other players facing a hopeless score would go through the motions, Krylov maintained a professional approach, came out on the ice and never allowed himself to take it easy...gave his all right to the end of every game, never holding back or settling for second best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Quebec selects C Tim Taylor



1997 Stanley Cup Champion (only 2 playoff games)
2004 Stanley Cup Champion
Captain of the Tampa Bay Lightning 2006-2008
You forgot this:

http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2010/...faceoff-takers

58.0% on faceoffs, 4th-best since 1998 among players with 5000+ faceoffs. The rest of the top-10 were all drafted eons ago.

Legends of Hockey

Quote:
C Carl Voss



1933 Calder Trophy Winner
1938 Stanley Cup Champion
9th in Assists 1934

Maple Leaf Legends
Back to those percentage scores I've been talking about for all these pre-WW2 centers. here are Voss':

66, 54, 52, 30, 22

Probably identical in value to DeMarco. Lacks that one big season, but better consistency. (three 50+ seasons as opposed to two)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
The Bursa Janissaries select:
C: Russ Blinco
58, 57, 50, 40, 38 = Blinco's top-5 percentage scores.

He may not have the "star factor" that Voss, DeMarco, and Gallinger earned with one big season, but he sustained his production much longer. His 4th & 5th best seasons are much better than theirs (his 6th is a 34% as well!)

see loh.net, he appears to have been a decent two-way player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
D Amby Moran


Big defenseman who seems to have been more valued for his offense than defense. He didn't make much an impact in the NHL like Matte but he scored a pretty decent amount during his time in the WCHL.

He scored 5 goals in 5 games during that '21 Allan Cup.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...by+moran&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...by+moran&hl=en
I had no idea what Firpo meant but it seems to refer to Luis Angel Firpo who was a boxer at the time and nicknamed "The Bull of The Pampas".

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...by+moran&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...by+moran&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...by+moran&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...by+moran&hl=en

He's listed a defenseman in all the articles which included a starting lineup and LoH, Wikipedia, and hockey-reference only have him as a defenseman as well.

Just how good was Moran's offense?

Amby finished second in defensemen scoring with 15-8-23 in the WCHL's 1923 season. That puts him behind only Bullet Joe Simpson's 15-14-29 year and just ahead of Matte's 15-5-20 year.

This was his only top 5 season and the next year he was limited to just six games. The '25 season didn't start well either and after 6 pointless games he was moved to Regina which seemed to be a boon for him finishing the year with 10 goals and 1 assist in 15 games for the Maroons.

He eventually got into 36 total NHL games but produced barely anything at all with just 1-1-2 in those 36 games.
I was suspicious of his offense that one year in the WCHL, mainly because of how many goals he had compared to assists, so I went looking into it, and it looks like it's all legit, he was most likely a defenseman all along.

Not sure who the better overall player was between he and Matte. both have the same games at the big levels, Matte brought much more offense, Moran assumedly size/strength/physicality. no all-star recognition for either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
D Gerald Diduck

Big physical defender will pair up with Kaberle. They should compliment each other nicely with Diduck's physicality and Kaberle's puck-moving abilities.
One note on this. I don't think Pelletier has this right when he says Diduck played a bigger role in Vancouver than anywhere else. He had 22 and 23-minute seasons with the Isles before coming to the Canucks, then played 19.20 minutes for the next 4 years as Vancouver's # 7, 6, 5, 5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
C Dan Daoust



3x 50 Point Scorer
Killed 42.4% of team's penalties, 84-85 to 89-90(except 86-87)
254 points in 522 career games
Why not just download that file that I posted earlier on for Reen, so that you don't have to calculate these numbers yourself and get them wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
C Archie McNaughton

28 goals in 20 career AHAC games, 1888-1891
I have 21 in 19 games according to SIHR, but that could be wrong, too.

I wish I could dig up some numbers for you to use as a point of reference, but the stats are just so sparse for back then.

I can tell you that Jack Findlay had 12 goals in 19 games at the same time, so McNaughton was definitely more potent. But, Findlay was an ATD pick for his (supposed) defensive ability so this doesn't really prove much. I'm lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
Montreal select Jeff Hackett G

Finished top 5 in save percentage 3 years in a row and another top 10.
In his career he averaged 3 sv% points over the league average, for 500 points. Not too bad.

He was helped, though, by the fact that he was a backup for all but three seasons. backups tend to get easier starts. He was considered one of the league's best backups, usually, and actually made the Hawks foolishly think Belfour was expendable. Hackett was something like 8th-10th on the THN's top goalies list in 1998 and I remember being very happy to see his name there. I thought he'd break out and be a star but alas, he couldn't sustain it. This is about where he belongs.

There might be more, but there is only one NHL goalie who I can say I'm 100% sure was better. the rest of the goalies on my shortlist are european, WHA, and early.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
Montreal select James Wisniewski D
he has potential, but don't think he belongs here yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
The Minutemen select 6'1 200 lbs. Al Smith, a standup goalie who likes to handle the puck and roam from his crease area. "The Bear" won the trophy for top netminder in the WHA in 1977-78 after already having played in three WHA all-star games. He had four 30+ win regular seasons (1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd in WHA wins those years), going 12-3 in the 1973 playoffs to win the championship. He is known to be physical and funny, useful intangibles.



http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=18699

http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/smitha.html
I think he's the only goalie to have three legitimate NHL stints!
thanks to the WHA, of course.

Smith was below the NHL average in sv% every time he played more than 7 games. But, of course, we're pretty much done selecting anyone who was above average in the NHL for any sustained period. In the WHA, Smith placed 4th, 5th, 8th and 10th in sv% (the pool of goalies was typically about 25), having just one poor year there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Do you have the book Kings of the Ice Chaos? They have a little write up for each of those three Soviet guys, and I'd be glad to share the little bits of info it contains if you don't have it yourself.
I posted the stuff on Krylov, please feel free to post for Ukolov and Kuzin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
I know a finnish goalie I would rather take but other than that, good choice.
I know who you mean, and you may be right. He does have a much better W/L record internationally, and he has more team success. He's also got a decent amount of personal achievements, but I don't think it's anywhere near Briza's overall. Please select him and correct me if you believe that's wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
The Bursa Janissaries select:

D: Tom Laidlaw
Throw him in the Carkner, Zombo, Cirella, Wells, Watters pile... your guess as to who is better, is as good as mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
Over a decade on the Czechoslovakia/Czech Republic national team, but about half of that as Hasek's backup.

Named best player of the playoffs 3 times in Czechoslovakia/Czech Republic.

8 times top 10 in Czech Golden Hockey Stick voting, finishing as high as 3rd 3 times.

In his last season of 2005-06, he won player of the year, top goalie, best player of the playoffs, and finished 5th in Czech Golden Hockey Stick voting (the only player from the CR league in the top 10).
thanks for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
RW Horace Gaul



1905 Stanley Cup Champion
7th in NHA Scoring, 1910
1911 Stanely Cup Champion

Hockey Historysis
You saw that too, hey? Yeah, I was really tempted to just throw him on a 4th line to get him some exposure and see where he went next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
Montreal select Ethan Moreau LW
Moreau = Lowry

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Amby Moran - The bio shows him to be a good rushing defenseman, worthy of at least Double-A draft duty.
Nothing for Matte?

they played the same number of big league games, and Matte put up 50% more points. I don't have any passages entered yet (good on BBS for doing that for Moran) but with 50% more points you have to think the guy could move the puck himself, too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
The Minutemen select 6'1 198 lbs. Kevin Bieksa,
Not bad. He just needs more GP at this point.

bieksa is 39th post-lockout with 22.43 minutes per game, but has just 380 games so far. He was 7th in TOI/GP mong availables heading into this draft and 5th when you drafted him. If Career GP are ignored, the fact that he posted these minutes for the most successful team probably makes him more attractive than perhaps all of them aside from Beauchemin.

Quote:
After the cup run he signed a 5-year contract that paid him $7 million in the first year, $23 million overall, to make him the club's highest paid defenseman in terms of cap hit per season for 2011/2012, signifying his value to the organization.
honestly, the way salaries go, it might mean nothing more than he was the last one to sign a contract!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
The Minutemen select 6'2, 223 lbs. Andrej Meszaros, the 7-year NHL defenseman who won the Flyers best blueliner award at the end of the 2010-11 regular season on a team that featured Pronger and Timonen. That very year he went on in the postseason to lead all Philly skaters in playoff minutes played (26:01) in an 11-game playoff run that he scored 6 points in. He had 7 points in a Stanley Cup Finals run with Ottawa in 2007. He has had four 30+ point seasons and twice has been top-5 in NHL plus-minus. He has been a solid second pairing guy on a couple of very good teams. He has a long history of respect and solid play. The WHL all-star has a banner hanging at Pacific Coliseum in honour of a junior career there which saw him become a 1st round NHL pick. He has also captained his country's world juniors team. The 2006 NHL all-rookie team selection scored two goals in the Young Guns all-star team in his sophomore season. He was the youngest Slovak ever at the 2004 world championships as an 18 year old and the second youngest Olympian at the 2006 Games behind only Malkin, scoring two points in the tourney and a plus plus-minus. He played in the 2010 Olympics, helping beat Russia and Sweden before losing the Bronze medal game to Finland.




http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.cgi?4699
Not so much a fan of this one. He's 92nd in post-lockout TOI. Hasn't done much special at the NHL level (his 2nd pairing +/- is deceptive), and not sure how he beat out Timonen for top Flyers D-man. Billy might be able to shed some light on that.

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Old
12-28-2011, 01:12 AM
  #149
Rob Scuderi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
All these guys deserved to fall far, and they did. Not sure what else you are looking for there. There should be a steady stream of soviet players selected right from pick #1 to now. There's no "invisible line" separating the good ones from the "fool's gold". If someone looks like the next best soviet and there's reason to believe they have as much potential valie as the next best NHLer, then take them!

Krylov was by far my #1 choice for a spare in this draft because he was such a team man, multi-positional, and so old school:

...I posted the stuff on Krylov, please feel free to post for Ukolov and Kuzin.
I had the same thing in mind with Krylov. He seems to be a very similar version of Stanislav Petukhov who I snagged on the Mallards in the AAA. You don't see many Soviets with the skillset he has, especially in Krylov's era with a lot of technicians learning hockey after playing bandy. I PM'd the stuff about Kuzin and Uvarov to Chaos last night so I'm sure he'll post it up.

Also your booklist made a great reference for Christmas ideas . I may just have to send a PM your way next time I'm interested in bookshopping rather than getting them from 800 different vendors on amazon, assuming of course you have some left.

Quote:
I was suspicious of his offense that one year in the WCHL, mainly because of how many goals he had compared to assists, so I went looking into it, and it looks like it's all legit, he was most likely a defenseman all along.

Not sure who the better overall player was between he and Matte. both have the same games at the big levels, Matte brought much more offense, Moran assumedly size/strength/physicality. no all-star recognition for either.
Yeah like I said everything I've seen has him at defense and he started next to Puss Traub during his time in Regina. I think Matte is probably better though, you had him with 4 top 5-10 seasons right? Moran's overall finishes aren't overly impressive aside from that second place finish. Matte produced better in the NHL as well so he's probably the right guy to be taken first. Moran's scoring didn't seem to translate over to the NHL and without knowing his value defensively I have a hard time finding a reason to put him over Matte. I'll still take Moran though, he scored a good number of goals for a defender and his big body and rushing style will compliment Scuderi's weaknesses well.

Quote:
One note on this. I don't think Pelletier has this right when he says Diduck played a bigger role in Vancouver than anywhere else. He had 22 and 23-minute seasons with the Isles before coming to the Canucks, then played 19.20 minutes for the next 4 years as Vancouver's # 7, 6, 5, 5.
Thanks, I really didn't look back at the TOI to check it out. After the Killer Kaleta fiasco I definitely take Pelletier with a grain of salt. Unless Pelletier just means he was most effective in Vancouver, but that'd sure be an awkward way of putting it.

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Old
12-28-2011, 02:35 AM
  #150
seventieslord
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- yep, my booklist should be accurate, once I remove the 18 I sold to someone just the other day.

- I keep flip flopping on Diduck vs. Nylund. You have Diduck. Care to make a case?

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