Its fun to look back on previous discussions with hindsight.
Sure is
BTW, aub, I'm not supporting the idiotic Boras ideology of a 10 yr deal, but if a creative deal can be worked out for shorter term and big time money like 22-25/yr frontloaded, that's what I'd like Rogers to commit to.
BTW, aub, I'm not supporting the idiotic Boras ideology of a 10 yr deal, but if a creative deal can be worked out for shorter term and big time money like 22-25/yr frontloaded, that's what I'd like Rogers to commit to.
I think it is universally accepted even by me that if a creative somewhat team friendly contract (in terms of options) can be worked out it make's sense. However Boras is not known as the type of agent that will give a team the better deal. His view is that the team simply getting his high priced player makes it a great deal for the team.
His general point is correct though (and why I'm against Oswalt coming here since that would only be a one year max).
With Beltran though, he costs nothing but money and is pretty much just a stopgap until guys like Gose/Marisnick mature, so its not a "win now and screw the future" move, per se. If the Jays traded for a guy like Garza I assume they'd get a window for an extension.
1 quality starter
1 quality reliever
1 quality #4 hitter
- maybe a good #1 or #2 hitter to go with Escobar
Marcum
Downs
----
Scutaro (at the time
they don't like keeping quality veteran players
they like to go for cheap
Fielder would be great obviously
Scutaro chased the money to go to the sox. He was good but had we kept him we wouldn't have Escobar today. I'd take Escobar over Scutaro everyday of the week. Marcum was a good pitcher and we'd all like to still have him but the one thing we have is pitching depth in the system and they figured with guys like Morrow/Drabek/Romero and Cecil on board we could afford to sacrifice him in an effort to sure up a position of weakness for us at 3B. It's simple. Would you rather Lawrie or Marcum? For me it's Lawrie everyday. Downs was a 34 yr old reliever that went for his last big contract. He was great and we all loved having him but at the end of the day a 3 yr deal for an older reliever tends not to work out to well. He also got us great compensation picks which is valuable to a rebuilding team. I'd love to have him today but understand the mentality of letting him walk.
As stated Marcum got Lawrie, you cant have your cake and eat it to, if you dont do that trade you can add 1 quality 3B to the wish list.
Downs: What is the chance a 35 year old reliever wants to spend the rest of his career with a rebuilding club?
Scutaro: 1 year wonder player who netted us a good return via draft picks. He has never been as good with Boston as he did in that 1 and only 1 good year with us.
Furthermore, if those move's arent made you dont see Escobar being traded here. Who I will argue is better then Scutaro and we will be getting more prime years out of him going forward then we would of with Scutaro.
I'm trying to catch up here and just saw this post. I essentially said the same thing so sorry for the sort of double post.
I'm trying to catch up here and just saw this post. I essentially said the same thing so sorry for the sort of double post.
When two posters say basically the exact same thing in arguements it is usually because they are 100% correct. Of course this discounts statements like "we should get fielder because hes fielder" type arguements.
The Halladay trade topic is a fun one to read through, although my constant insistence that Aumont was the key piece heading to the Jays (until a guy I know who worked for the R-Phils told me Drabek was coming to Toronto) was pretty embarrassing.
When two posters say basically the exact same thing in arguements it is usually because they are 100% correct. Of course this discounts statements like "we should get fielder because hes fielder" type arguements.
I think it is universally accepted even by me that if a creative somewhat team friendly contract (in terms of options) can be worked out it make's sense. However Boras is not known as the type of agent that will give a team the better deal. His view is that the team simply getting his high priced player makes it a great deal for the team.
That's what I said a while back. That they could work out a deal of 5 or 6 yrs guaranteed (if the jays would do 6)and give two player and team options for years 7 and 8 and two teams options for years 9 and 10 they could technically give him what he's looking for. Front load it a bit to make it more appealing. I think it would be a matter of the dollar amount of a buy out if the jays wanted to walk away from him.
I just found a copy of Baseball Illustrated's 1994 season preview, which has a recap of the World Series between the "free-spending Blue Jays" and the "budget controlled Phillies" which also has Paul Molitor explaining his move to Toronto with "the Blue Jays pay more in player salaries than the Brewers have in revenues. The playing field isn't fair"
His general point is correct though (and why I'm against Oswalt coming here since that would only be a one year max).
With Beltran though, he costs nothing but money and is pretty much just a stopgap until guys like Gose/Marisnick mature, so its not a "win now and screw the future" move, per se. If the Jays traded for a guy like Garza I assume they'd get a window for an extension.
I would like Oswalt here on a one year deal. It would solidify our starting rotation a little and not force to the jays to rush pitchers but let them find their game. With Alvarez/Cecil/Drabek/McGowan we have some big question marks there. Having Roy for one year allows us to see who can step up this year and take the roll and run with it. Worst case scenario Roy has a great year and we as a team don't we could move him at the deadline for a one really nice piece or two good pieces. Adds a good veteran leader. I just really see a lot of positives to it.
I just found a copy of Baseball Illustrated's 1994 season preview, which has a recap of the World Series between the "free-spending Blue Jays" and the "budget controlled Phillies" which also has Paul Molitor explaining his move to Toronto with "the Blue Jays pay more in player salaries than the Brewers have in revenues. The playing field isn't fair"
Good times!
That's just insane to read. Well, with any luck in the next couple years we'll be able to get back to those glory days with a 4 million attendance and a great team to watch.
there's a reason I didn't respond to the post you responded to. Can you figure out why?
Oh oh OHHH!! PICK ME!! You put him on your ignore list so you didn't see it!
On a Blue Jays related note, don't go after Beltran. He doesn't fit in with what AA is doing at all... and he's old. Now THAT would be just spending money to spend money IMO.
Oh oh OHHH!! PICK ME!! You put him on your ignore list so you didn't see it!
On a Blue Jays related note, don't go after Beltran. He doesn't fit in with what AA is doing at all... and he's old. Now THAT would be just spending money to spend money IMO.
Yet SOMEhow he knew it was related to something I said.... curious. I guess after 3 years he hasn't figured out how to use the multi-quote button, instead cluttering the thread. Shows the brainpower I'm up against.
Anyways, Beltran to me would be a waste of a good chunk of cash and would be inline with the theories about spending needlessly. Why would we need him if we're not contenders and we have Thames/Snider?
Oh oh OHHH!! PICK ME!! You put him on your ignore list so you didn't see it!
On a Blue Jays related note, don't go after Beltran. He doesn't fit in with what AA is doing at all... and he's old. Now THAT would be just spending money to spend money IMO.
10) Brett Lawrie
Analysis: He may not hit like he did in 2011 for a full season (.953 OPS in 171 PAs), but his first taste of the majors was pretty impressive for a 21-year-old coming off a hand injury and jumping into baseball's toughest division.
Lawrie had a big off-season before 2011, changing organizations and agents, and concerns about his coachability disappeared. With Toronto, he showed he can murder a fastball, added value on the bases (he's a plus runner despite his muscular build), and played a surprisingly strong third base. He's going to see a lot more off-speed stuff in 2012, and will have to improve his recognition of and/or ability to hit those pitches. But the ceiling here just keeps going up, and a peak with a .400 OBP, 30-plus homers, and 20-plus steals is within reach, with above-average or better defense at third.
43) Colby Rasmus
Analysis: Freed from a situation in St. Louis he's acknowledged was hurting his on-field production, Rasmus was traded to Toronto, got hurt, and didn't exactly produce when he was healthy (.517 OPS in 140 PAs with the Jays).
He has a good eye and a short, simple swing with good leverage to produce power, but his lower half became very busy in 2012, and he struggled getting his front leg down for proper timing. Toronto can afford to be patient, and an athletic outfielder with his kind of plate discipline is rare enough that they were smart to pounce on him when he fell out of favor with the Cardinals.
Other notes:
- Travis Snider was listed as "just outside the top 50"
- top 5 was Upton/McCutchen/Stanton/Posey/Kershaw
- Mat Latos was ranked #25, in between Jaime Garcia and Neftali Feliz
- Trevor Cahill was ranked #28
- Jon Niese is another guy just outside the top 50
