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12-21-2011, 11:13 AM
  #1
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Secondary Scoring

Our PP is much maligned and our PK has quickly become public enemy number two.

Secondary scoring, however seems to be escaping some much deserved blame.

Raffi Torres and Taylor Pyatt are prime examples. Neither contributes anything.g to either special team. Both have been close to worthless five on five. Each is on pace for less than ten goals and less than twenty points. Completely unacceptable given their veteran status and their handsome salaries. I'm sure Viktor Tikhonov would be happy to be on face for a measily 18pts but actually contribute to the PK and do so for HALF as much as either Torres or Pyatt. Ryan Hollweg can do what Torres does for half the price, too. Hell, he'd be more consistent with it. He's more mean more regularly than either Torres or Pyatt. This team was not counting on contributions from Chipchura or O'Sullivan. We were expecting Pyatt and Torres to step up.

Just thought I'd spread a little blame around. I'm seeing Yandle take heat and our GDTs might as well be called "**** our ****ing PP". It's time Pyatt and Torres take a little heat.

I hope one or both are scratched tonight. Let Bissonnette get in there. At least he won't take it for granted.

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12-21-2011, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Our PP is much maligned and our PK has quickly become public enemy number two.

Secondary scoring, however seems to be escaping some much deserved blame.

Raffi Torres and Taylor Pyatt are prime examples. Neither contributes anything.g to either special team. Both have been close to worthless five on five. Each is on pace for less than ten goals and less than twenty points. Completely unacceptable given their veteran status and their handsome salaries. I'm sure Viktor Tikhonov would be happy to be on face for a measily 18pts but actually contribute to the PK and do so for HALF as much as either Torres or Pyatt. Ryan Hollweg can do what Torres does for half the price, too. Hell, he'd be more consistent with it. He's more mean more regularly than either Torres or Pyatt. This team was not counting on contributions from Chipchura or O'Sullivan. We were expecting Pyatt and Torres to step up.

Just thought I'd spread a little blame around. I'm seeing Yandle take heat and our GDTs might as well be called "**** our ****ing PP". It's time Pyatt and Torres take a little heat.

I hope one or both are scratched tonight. Let Bissonnette get in there. At least he won't take it for granted.
Langkow has really struggled as well. Gordon was playing well when Langkow was away but even his game has dropped a notch or two since Langkow's return.

I'm a long time Pyatt hater so I have nothing new to add. I only expected 10-15 from Torres anyways to be honest.

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12-21-2011, 11:23 AM
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Langkow has really struggled as well. Gordon was playing well when Langkow was away but even his game has dropped a notch or two since Langkow's return.

I'm a long time Pyatt hater so I have nothing new to add. I only expected 10-15 from Torres anyways to be honest.
See, given their limited contributions in any other facet of the game, I feel like both Pyatt and Raffi should be knocking in fifteen MINIMUM to justify their existence.

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12-21-2011, 11:25 AM
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See, given their limited contributions in any other facet of the game, I feel like both Pyatt and Raffi should be knocking in fifteen MINIMUM to justify their existence.
at least Torres will throw a hit.

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12-21-2011, 11:26 AM
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Although Torres has not been putting up points, I think him and Chipchura together actually play a fairly solid game. Yes he doesnt add value through special teams but he is a solid player for a "grinding" line. I never expected him to contribute consistently on the scoresheet.

As for Pyatt........i am with you 100%. Seems like a player thats in the lineup just to fill a spot.

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12-21-2011, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Our PP is much maligned and our PK has quickly become public enemy number two.

Secondary scoring, however seems to be escaping some much deserved blame.

Raffi Torres and Taylor Pyatt are prime examples. Neither contributes anything.g to either special team. Both have been close to worthless five on five. Each is on pace for less than ten goals and less than twenty points. Completely unacceptable given their veteran status and their handsome salaries. I'm sure Viktor Tikhonov would be happy to be on face for a measily 18pts but actually contribute to the PK and do so for HALF as much as either Torres or Pyatt. Ryan Hollweg can do what Torres does for half the price, too. Hell, he'd be more consistent with it. He's more mean more regularly than either Torres or Pyatt. This team was not counting on contributions from Chipchura or O'Sullivan. We were expecting Pyatt and Torres to step up.

Just thought I'd spread a little blame around. I'm seeing Yandle take heat and our GDTs might as well be called "**** our ****ing PP". It's time Pyatt and Torres take a little heat.

I hope one or both are scratched tonight. Let Bissonnette get in there. At least he won't take it for granted.
The fact that we refer to Torres and Pyatt as our "secondary scoring" is disconcerting. The only place where these two may do any secondary scoring is at a gay bar.

Doan is our secondary scoring, Korpi maybe. Lankgow a stretch. Torres and Pyatt ought to be buried on the 4th line and kept there so that they can contribute the occassional goal and occassional check.

We need more out of Boedker. This is plain and simple. He should be banned from being able to pass the puck back. The amount of times he circles the corner and passes to the point for a useless shot that usually gets blocked is astounding. He should never be allowed to pass the puck backwards. Throw the puck on net, send the puck in the direction of the net, force a lead pass - whatever - but don't send the puck in the opposite direction of the net.

We're at a point now where without adding any additional pieces. Vrbata and Whitney are our go-to guys, like it or not. On this team, they MUST play 20+ min per game. We will never score more than two goals a game unless they play more around the 20 min mark. Enough of this Doan getting 19min crap. He hasn't earned it (points wise) and he represents our secondary scoring, plus he's getting older and is looking like he can't manage that much ice time with the rugged way he plays the game.

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Old
12-21-2011, 11:37 AM
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I'm ready to move on from Pyatt. He threw a nice hit last night, but other than that, it's been a while since I even noticed him. I think they should give him until the end of the roster freeze and if there's still nothing there, trade or waive him.

I want to keep Torres around. He was signed because of the way we were embarrassed by the Wings in the playoffs. I want him around for that and I'm not that concerned if he doesn't produce much in his 10 min/game during the reggie season.

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12-21-2011, 11:44 AM
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I want to keep Torres around. He was signed because of the way we were embarrassed by the Wings in the playoffs. I want him around for that and I'm not that concerned if he doesn't produce much in his 10 min/game during the reggie season.
This. Torres will earn his keep if and when the Coyotes make the playoffs. I feel similarly about Pyatt.

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12-21-2011, 12:20 PM
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The fact that we refer to Torres and Pyatt as our "secondary scoring" is disconcerting. The only place where these two may do any secondary scoring is at a gay bar.

Doan is our secondary scoring, Korpi maybe. Lankgow a stretch. Torres and Pyatt ought to be buried on the 4th line and kept there so that they can contribute the occassional goal and occassional check.

We need more out of Boedker. This is plain and simple. He should be banned from being able to pass the puck back. The amount of times he circles the corner and passes to the point for a useless shot that usually gets blocked is astounding. He should never be allowed to pass the puck backwards. Throw the puck on net, send the puck in the direction of the net, force a lead pass - whatever - but don't send the puck in the opposite direction of the net.

We're at a point now where without adding any additional pieces. Vrbata and Whitney are our go-to guys, like it or not. On this team, they MUST play 20+ min per game. We will never score more than two goals a game unless they play more around the 20 min mark. Enough of this Doan getting 19min crap. He hasn't earned it (points wise) and he represents our secondary scoring, plus he's getting older and is looking like he can't manage that much ice time with the rugged way he plays the game.
I'm souring a little bit on Pyatt, too. He normally does start off the year rather slowly, and while he does have the bull in a china shop mentality, it isn't used often enough.

I'm still not sure why people expect more from Boedker, at least more than he has given right now. He often looks like the best forward when paired with Langkow and Doan. If his biggest issue is that he is not great at either drop passes, or sending the puck out in front, so be it. He's a Euro with stick skills, and just like OEL/Rundblad, he is going to wait for something to open up. It gives us the best chance to get a scoring chance, even if the opposing defense backs into the slot areas and are able to block shots.

Our secondary scoring is what it is, in fact, I think it has just as much to do with our defense, too. Our defense doesn't put as many pucks on net as previous years, and again, we don't do well getting pucks through traffic.

My thoughts on secondary scoring are to send Summers and Pyatt to Carolina for Jussi Jokinen. Whitney or Jokinen can line up with Hanzal/Vrbata or Doan/Langkow. Korpi/Gordon/Boedker on 3rd line. Torres/O'Reilly/Chip on 4th line, with a sprinkling of Biz with Chip moving to center. Bring O'Sullivan or Miele back up every so often....

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Old
12-21-2011, 03:24 PM
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Haha this is so true.. All Coyotes games:

Vrbata goal
Whitney goal
One of Doan/OEL/Hanzal goal.

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12-21-2011, 05:36 PM
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There is no secondary scoring to speak of.Its about time Tip shuffled the deck. I know, how about giving Sully more than 9 minutes with the plumbers,and actually play him with someone that has cracked the 50 point barrier..

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12-21-2011, 05:54 PM
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I have been calling Pyatt worthless all year. He does not belong on our team, waste of ****ing space.

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12-21-2011, 05:58 PM
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Schlemko might be our best trade chip. With Yandle and Runblad in the mix, I think we need to hang on to a defensive d-man like Summers and shop Schlemko. Plus he is better known so may fetch more in a return.

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12-21-2011, 06:00 PM
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Trade him to EDM b/c they got to see the best game of his career. Maybe they'll offer something worthwhile.

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Old
12-25-2011, 05:58 PM
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Ladislav Nagy is only 32.

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Old
12-25-2011, 06:47 PM
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Ladislav Nagy is only 32.
And Patrik Stefan is only 31. At a certain point, one must simply let go.

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Old
12-25-2011, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
This. Torres will earn his keep if and when the Coyotes make the playoffs. I feel similarly about Pyatt.
As long as Pyatt and Torres are relied upon for secondary scoring, the playoffs may be out of reach.

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12-25-2011, 08:00 PM
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Speaking of this I feel like Korpi isn't as good as last year. We were all hoping that he broke out offensively. I haven't looked at the stats, but this is going off of the many games I've watched. Anybody agree?

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12-25-2011, 08:22 PM
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I'm not hear to defend Torres and Pyatt, but you have to understand that there are more contributions that a player can make than putting up offense (points/PP) and playing the PK. I would rather see guys contributing in significant roles at each position as well, but guys like Torres and Pyatt are depth players that are typically not counted on for their offense and if they are defensive specialists then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

In theory you have guys like Whitney, Doan, Langkow, Korpi, Hanzal and Vrbata (at forward) who are points/PP contributors. You have guys like Gordon who are defensive specialists or have other intangibles like taking faceoffs. Everyone else falls into this category of "secondary scoring" as you call it. That includes guys like Boedker, Pyatt, Torres, O'Reilly, Chipchura, Bissonnette, etc. You always hope to get more out of those players, and those contributions can make the difference between good teams and great teams.

Boedker has helped the most out of that group for secondary scoring. Chipchura has been pretty good in the dot. O'Reilly might end up being a good secondary scoring contributor as the season continues as well. In theory a guy like Torres or Bissonnette contributes to team toughness.

For the most part, I would say that guys are playing to their expectations. The problem is when you are counting on that top group to score and carry the team offensively if the defense/goaltending cannot carry it's end of the game.

In the end, this team has scored 92 goals and allowed 92 goals, that's a .500 team and that's basically the record they have. These overtime points non-sense really throw off evaluations of a team. It makes the Coyotes look like a team 4 games over .500, but that's really a team like the Wild or Devils (not accounting for the loser point).

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12-25-2011, 10:50 PM
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Gripe on Torres when Torres has been slightly more productive than Boedker in terms of points per minutes played? I know Torres has not been having the season he wanted but he's been placed on the 4th line in a checking role while other guys like Boedker have been given good minutes with little production. I know people are going to say "watch Boedker play" but i have seen him play and his speed makes him look better than he actually is. Remember when everyone on this board thought Enver Lisin was going to be a star? I'm just saying don't give a selected player a free pass and gripe on other players for the same thing.

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12-25-2011, 11:21 PM
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You do need to watch Boedker play. Several times he has been our most dynamic forward this season. People seem to bothered that his highlight reel rushes don't end up in goals all the time. He's creating a ton of chances out there. This team just lacks finish outside of Vrbata. Torres coughs up the puck more than any Coyote. Hell Bissonette has better puck possession than him. He has been IMO the most disappointing Coyote so far this season. It's a shame because I saw him tear it up for Vancouver and Edmonton on those cup runs. I think the new hitting rule has really neutered him.

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12-25-2011, 11:24 PM
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And Patrik Stefan is only 31. At a certain point, one must simply let go.
It was a joke. Injuries ruined his north American career. He's only effective on the larger ice surface now.

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12-26-2011, 12:33 AM
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You do need to watch Boedker play. Several times he has been our most dynamic forward this season. People seem to bothered that his highlight reel rushes don't end up in goals all the time. He's creating a ton of chances out there. This team just lacks finish outside of Vrbata. Torres coughs up the puck more than any Coyote. Hell Bissonette has better puck possession than him. He has been IMO the most disappointing Coyote so far this season. It's a shame because I saw him tear it up for Vancouver and Edmonton on those cup runs. I think the new hitting rule has really neutered him.
So Boedker gets a free pass while others with lesser roles get scrutinized? To be honest, that doesn't make sense. Boedker is on this team as a top six forward to put points on the board, correct? Meanwhile, Torres and Pyatt have different roles on the team in the bottom six.

It's nice that Boedker creates chances with his speed but he usually plays with playmaking centers like Daymond Langkow and Cal O'Reilly. What we really need from him as a top six winger is for him to finish otherwise we will keep seeing the same results on the stat sheet regardless if he's creating chances. Look, I like Boedker because he's a hard working, positive minded player. But, if people want to point figures at who to blame for the lack of secondary scoring, I'd look at an underachieving player like Boedker who's role is to score.

As for Torres, I wouldn't be worried about his inability to have superb puck possession. His main value is his effective forecheck and his ability to battle in front net to chip in the rebounds. I feel that he should be utilized a bit more in terms of more ice time, but hell, I'd take Tippett's word over mine.

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12-26-2011, 03:19 AM
  #24
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I lobe Patty as a person and his play over the last few years wasn't awful, but this tear I am left disappointed. I feel it is time we upgrade if possible. Maybe even give Maclean his due, its worth at least one more shot.

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12-26-2011, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AndrewYotes View Post
Speaking of this I feel like Korpi isn't as good as last year. We were all hoping that he broke out offensively. I haven't looked at the stats, but this is going off of the many games I've watched. Anybody agree?
Don't look now... but he has 4 goals and 7 points over his last nine games.

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