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Are concussions being blown out of proportion?

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Old
12-21-2011, 07:35 PM
  #26
mat_sens
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I think they are just starting to discover the consequences of having multiple concussions...They found out just a few years ago that having 3 concussions or more will increase your chance of having Alzheimer`s by 10 times.

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12-21-2011, 07:40 PM
  #27
Stylizer1
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Originally Posted by thinkwild View Post
There's a lot of doctors and medical evidence to consider lately. Some of these doctors get very upset at the phrase "little concussion" suggesting that is like saying she is just a little bit pregnant. It is a brain injury and it is serious, there arent really gradations.

The alarming thing is how long the culture in hockey has been to suggest that the player got his bell rung, get up, shake it off, man up and get out there. Some players, like Keith Primeau and Lindros used to suggest that Philly trainers in particular were notorious for that and i think were even sued.

There have been some really serious injuries from players forced to play through injury or lose their jobs. Its only now we are starting to realize what the other side of that trade off is. And that surely is not something blown out of proportion, it is very scary.

Unfortunately, the conclusion of much of the evidence as it stands now is that Hockey is very dangerous and should probably be banned. There are as many concussions in womens hockey and they dont even have hitting. And until boxing is banned, why target hockey fights.


The game has definitely hit frantic speeds lately, it is crazy. Perhaps they should try only having 2 lines instead of 4 or prevent changing on the fly, or forcing minimum 5 minute shifts or something. If players have to take longer shifts somehow, the game may become less out of control and safer. Then just hope that safe isnt death.

But it seems to me more likely that our previous notions of concussions have been blown out of the water by new facts, not that concussion are being blown out of proportion.
It's not a new thing that concussions are dangerous. The fact is some people can have there bells rung and shake it off and some can't. The rise in concussions IMO has to do with bringing in the trapezoid and removing the red line.

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12-21-2011, 07:49 PM
  #28
thinkwild
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I cant think of any of the recent concussions that were caused because of that, which ones did you have in mind that could be obviously remedied by that change?

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12-21-2011, 08:11 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by thinkwild View Post
I cant think of any of the recent concussions that were caused because of that, which ones did you have in mind that could be obviously remedied by that change?
Those 2 rule changes along with not allowing obstruction allow for speed to enter into the zone on the forecheck. It increases the speed of the game. Players don't "look out" as much because the defender cannot slow them down or obstruct. Also I would like to know the average age of players who have received concussions since the lockout.

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12-21-2011, 08:15 PM
  #30
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The solution to this problem? 4 on 4 hockey.

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12-21-2011, 08:50 PM
  #31
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How do they explain the big increase in concussions in women's non-contact hockey? Part of it has to be that every injury is receiving big news coverage and analysis. This is good for the players involved in terms of medical treatment, maybe not so much in terms of news coverage. Bringing in the death of the three tough guys as proof of anything is bogus. Where were the three deaths the year before, or every other year in hockey history for that matter?

There are two expressions that are somewhat antiquated today, "getting your bell rung" and "losing a step". Guys would get their bell rung a few times, causing them to lose a step, and they would get cut, their careers over. No fanfare, no news at 11:00.

If you take contact out of hockey, who will watch it? I sure won't. Nobody talks much about concussions in boxing these days, when every time a fighter is knocked out, it is a concussion.

If helmets can be improved, great. same goes for any improvement for all the equipment. But where does the medical community have the right to dictate what happens in sports? If there are risks, the players should know about them from an early age, then chose or have their parents chose for them. I've never heard of doctors saying there shouldn't be any auto racing, where guys get killed from time to time.

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Old
12-21-2011, 09:39 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
The solution to this problem? 4 on 4 hockey.
Terrible idea although would be extremely exciting.

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Old
12-22-2011, 08:28 AM
  #33
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I think we're only scratching the surface with this concussion issue. In the early 1900's, the NFL was nearly abolished after a rash of deaths and tons of serious injuries on the field. They came up with the forward pass rule to prevent deaths and that was the birth of the modern football era.

The players no longer die on the field, they die in their beds in their fifties with broken bodies and brains turned to mush.

When that happens, when retired players start dying in the forties and fifties, hockey will die along with it. It won't happen over night, but surely less parents will send their kids down that death path and the game as a whole will suffer.

Football can't be fixed anymore. How can you possibly take the hitting out of it? Hockey, on the other hand, can still be fixed.

When you're sick, you take measures to make yourself better. Hockey is sick right now, a concussion is not something you can wave off like a cold, it catches up to you big time.

The players are bigger, the game is faster and the rinks remain the same. Something has to give. 4 on 4 hockey or the game dies.

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12-22-2011, 08:35 AM
  #34
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Not remotely so, and LOL at someone saying "go do something else if you don't like concussions".

It's important, there's serious long-term health effects. If you're tried of hearing about it, imagine how tired people are of feeling the symptoms and long-term effects. I'm going to go ahead and support the players who don't want to be the next victim...

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Old
12-22-2011, 08:39 AM
  #35
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Not really. It's a serious issue. Everyone has every right to be concerned.

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12-22-2011, 08:49 AM
  #36
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Hell no. They are very very serious and we need to address it. Steps need to be taken (or continue to be taken) to prevent concussions. Most notably better equipment in my opinion. Taking head shots out is great, but we need to turn the focus on equipment. Helmets need to be far better at protecting against concussions.

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12-22-2011, 09:14 AM
  #37
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I couldn't believe that Todd White had 7 or 8 concussions. He wasn't even sure of the total number. The NHL culture has buried and hidden it for a long time, and is only slowly coming to grips with the problem. Even now, IMHO, the extent of the concussion problem is only at tip of the iceberg stage.

The outcome could be a radical change in how the game is played. Maybe 4 on 4, maybe bigger ice surfaces, not sure. This will be hard for some fans, but at what point do we say we are better than Romans cheering for someone to get killed or severly maimed?

This isn't specifically about fighting, or the instigator rule, it's about the game as a whole and how and why concussions occur, what can reasonably be mitigated and what is a tolerable level.

Burying the facts out of a fear on the impact on youth enrollment is reflecting the old attitude to bury the facts.

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Old
12-22-2011, 09:16 AM
  #38
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I think it is totally overblown tbh. But the Players Association has to take care of its players, and players deserve a healthy life after hockey - so right now there are extraordinary caution going into anything that might be a concussion.

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12-22-2011, 09:48 AM
  #39
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I have a concussion or two from hitting my head a few times on the driveway and the pavement by the slippery conditions yesterday. I have pulled a Colby Armstrong this morning, should I pull a Crosby?

Discuss.

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Old
12-22-2011, 10:23 AM
  #40
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The thing right now is that people are afraid. The pundits, the fans, the players. They're afraid now. They know that the situation can't go on but nobody wants to really admit to the problem because there is no obvious solution right now.

The problem is serious. Brain trauma is serious. It's not cobwebs or ringing bells. It's the thing that runs your entire central nervous system. It's connected to every part of your body and it's fragile.

The soft brain tissue inside your skull is not immune to damage and does not magically repair itself. If that were true, there wouldn't be any paraplegics or quadriplegics because their spinal cords would just heal up. But they don't do they?

Nobody tells a guy in a wheelchair who has had a spinal cord injury to just suck it up, or shake it off. Nobody questions his manhood because he can't just take some tylenol and get back into action.

Suiteness is totally right with his post. The game can be fixed. People just need to admit that there is a problem and start working on solutions rather than pretend that it's just media hype.

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12-22-2011, 10:28 AM
  #41
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And people wonder about concussions but check out the trailer for NHL 12. It glorifies concussion inducing plays, headshots, and guys running the goalies non-stop. That is what kids are being fed as 'cool' right now.

Don't get me wrong, it looks like an awesome game and I have a copy wrapped and ready to go under the tree for my kids, but there are some definite mixed messages being sent to the youth of the sport.


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Old
12-22-2011, 11:16 AM
  #42
mat_sens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamigo View Post
And people wonder about concussions but check out the trailer for NHL 12. It glorifies concussion inducing plays, headshots, and guys running the goalies non-stop. That is what kids are being fed as 'cool' right now.

Don't get me wrong, it looks like an awesome game and I have a copy wrapped and ready to go under the tree for my kids, but there are some definite mixed messages being sent to the youth of the sport.

Kinda ironic that Winchester gets rocked in that video lol

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12-22-2011, 11:22 AM
  #43
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It is not being blown out of proportion...how can it when these cases are clinically diagnosed?

I agree with most here that it is the speed of the game, the size of the player and I am not sure if people mentioned how hard the equipment is that is making contact with the players.

I also think it is part the NHL's fault for taking the blame aware from the players getting hit, allowing them to prance through the neutral zone knowing that the "blindside" hit is now a severe penalty. The NHL has allowed players to turn their back to their opponents a second before impact. It has allowed players to tryand manipulate the game and the referees.

Back in the day, a player never dared to turn their back to their opponent before impact. It is ludicrous. Players were always taught to keep their head up and be aware on the ice, that is out of the game now and you have all these whiplash injuries because players are unaware. They don't have their helmets on tight. Their heads hit the ice.

The pests of the game, the Otts, Derek Roys, the embellishers have made a mockery of the game. Kicking their feet up and creating boarding calls, the stigma of head injuries with players turning their backs near the boards and these players running around protected by the insitgator penalty taking the policing out of their hands and into the incapable hands of Shanahan. Mark Howe said it best on how the game has changed in his HOF pre-speech. You wanna take concussions out of the game? Let Carkner beat the crap out of Gaustad. Look at Engelland killing that guy and the Penguins score on the instigator...is that right?

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12-22-2011, 11:34 AM
  #44
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Main factor here is impoved imaging technology which clearly shows massive changes to brain function.

People's brains were being destroyed by this game before (Eric Nesterenko, anyone?),but never has it been so clear and indisputable that getting hit in the head or having your head snapped back is really,reallybad for you.

Quote:
You wanna take concussions out of the game? Let Carkner beat the crap out of Gaustad.
That's not taking concussions out of the game ,it's changing who gets them.

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12-22-2011, 12:48 PM
  #45
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And another thing, coming back too early from a concussion and sustaining another blow soon is what's really causing problems. I think this has a lot do with why Sid sat out a whole year. He took two blows in a week.
I can attest to this. Back in high school I took a pretty mean blow to the head in practice, felt dizzy, confused, threw up when I got home and ultimately realized I had a concussion (after playing through a very physical practice). So, I took a few day off and felt fine. Went to the gym 3-4 days after sustaining the blow, started doing weights and all those feelings came right back. Took another few days off then I went right back to practice, feeling pretty good. I didn't even bother tell my coach I had a concussion and ended up with another one within a week. That put me on the shelf for about 8 months.

I could barely look at a computer screen or do any homework, let alone exert myself physically. It was so much worse after that 2nd blow. I would have probably been fine if I waited another week before getting back into action. I recovered from one when I was younger playing basketball in about a week and change.

That's exactly what happened to Crosby, so I can relate. I'm now 100% better I never get headaches or anything. Gotta make sure players don't go out there and get that 2nd concussion in a space of short time. These stricter guidelines are a positive step in that light but players will still be macho like Armstrong and play through it. Concussions are never going away but we can minimize the short and long term damage.

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Old
12-22-2011, 12:52 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nnynetpotato View Post
Main factor here is impoved imaging technology which clearly shows massive changes to brain function.

People's brains were being destroyed by this game before (Eric Nesterenko, anyone?),but never has it been so clear and indisputable that getting hit in the head or having your head snapped back is really,reallybad for you.



That's not taking concussions out of the game ,it's changing who gets them.
LOL, you are right!

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Old
12-22-2011, 01:33 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
The only way to get rid of concussions is to get rid of fighting and body contact. I think the ice surface is too small for today's NHL player but the result of a concussion have little to do with that.
Comments like this just perpetrate the myth that the reason for the rise in concussions, and injuries in general, is all to do with the size and speed of the players.

Concussions are on the rise for several reasons, two of which the NHL/NHLPA are in complete control.

First the equipment, it needs to be changed immediately. Players can argue all they want about the need for protection, but the protection they demand is one of the leading causes of injury. Teams' injury lists are overflowing, makes one wonder what the NHL/NHLPA are thinking.

Second, the removal of the red line for the purpose of off-sides, has created way more speed through the neutral zone, leading to checks thrown with greater force due to momentum.

In the NHL's quest for more scoring, rule changes were implemented without consideration for the undesirable consequences, now they face the reality.

Larger ice surfaces would alleviate the problem to some degree, but the owners won't consider that for a second. Thirty teams aren't going to build bigger rinks, so the only alternative would be to remove seating. Just isn't going to happen.


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Old
12-22-2011, 01:47 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
The solution to this problem? 4 on 4 hockey.
The concussion problem will reach a natural equilibrium as concussed players sit out and reduce the roster sizes of their teams, either leading to 4-on-4 hockey, or forcing teams to use slower players. Either way, rates of player concussions will drop. No need to interfere with the negative feedback mechanism.

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12-22-2011, 01:48 PM
  #49
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I think it is totally overblown tbh. But the Players Association has to take care of its players, and players deserve a healthy life after hockey - so right now there are extraordinary caution going into anything that might be a concussion.
It is NOT overblown, it is very serious issue.

Every contact sport, lead by the NFL, has been attempting to find ways to minimize the immediate and long term damage to the players. The NHL was the exception.

Now faced with indisputable evidence, the league is reluctantly taking steps, but are still foot dragging. The one positive for hockey, is David Branch has been leading the way to remove the senseless violence, and his actions have typically lead the NHL to follow suit.

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12-22-2011, 01:58 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
It's not a new thing that concussions are dangerous. The fact is some people can have there bells rung and shake it off and some can't. The rise in concussions IMO has to do with bringing in the trapezoid and removing the red line.
The truth is nobody can shake it off, some players (like Armstrong) feel they need to play through it, or they risk staying in the game.

It would be interesting to know how many third or fourth line players hide how they feel after a severe hit, yet didn't end up on wozzy street like Winchester.

The NHL implemented a quiet room strategy, yet I have seen numerous hits where the player was helped to the bench, then immediately returned to play.

The NHL needs to get a lot more diligent IMO.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 12-22-2011 at 02:03 PM.
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