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The Philly Retool

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Old
12-20-2011, 10:26 AM
  #1
habs03
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The Philly Retool

I might be one of a few, but I strongly still see this team being a good team having a bad season, example 2007 Flyers. Flyers had a horrible seasons, retooled and were back on track the following year.

I think with some minor retooling, specially to the D-core, the Habs can do just that.

Looking at next season, I think we can be fine, going to a new division where the only team that might be clearly better than us is the Bruins, and I while they might be a better team overall, I think we have the advantage when playing vs each other.

With the right coach, maybe Martin Raymond, Benoit Groulx, or maybe Roy. And if PG is gone, maybe Julien Brisebois as GM )the scout staff is good, so they won't be need for a major overhaul in that department),I think with some minor retooling going into next season with a core of the following below we can be a top 8-12 team in the league.

***I just put names like Gleason,Hecht and Prust that I think would be good as replacement for guys that might not stay like Moen A.Kost, Gill, but the cap structure should be the same.


FORWARDS

Cammalleri ($6.000m) / Plekanec ($5.000m) / Gionta ($5.000m)

Pacioretty ($1.625m) / Desharnais ($0.850m) / Cole ($4.500m)

XXXXX (ex. Hecht) ($3.500m) / Eller ($1.500m) / Leblanc ($1.170m)

xxxx (ex. Prust) ($1.500m) / xxxx (ex. McClement) ($1.500m) / White($0.625m)


DEFENSEMEN

Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($1.000m)

Tim Gleason ($3.500m) / P.K. Subban ($3.750m)

Tomas Kaberle ($4.250m) / Josh Gorges ($3.500m)

Raphael Diaz ($1.000m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($5.000m) / Peter Budaj ($1.150m)


EDIT: Before anyone mentions, IMO Gomez is as good as gone after this season, weather its through a trade, AHL, or buy-out. When Kaberle was acquired, PG got asked about the cap for next season, and when he said it wouldn't be a problem IMO that was as good as saying is Gomez is gone.


Last edited by habs03: 12-20-2011 at 11:15 AM.
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Old
12-20-2011, 10:30 AM
  #2
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Management, and upper management have a philosophy that doesn't work in today's game. Nothing will change until Molson has the balls to wipe out everyone from the top down who think building a team around small players will accomplish anything.

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12-20-2011, 10:32 AM
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I might have missed it but you mentionned something about retooling and all you did was post the same line-up we have right now.

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12-20-2011, 10:33 AM
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We're an okay team but we need to do more than just retool if we want to build a cup contending team. We have some good young players to start building around but the the core of our club currently isn't great.

We're better off scrapping our core and building from the younger guys. Doubt that this happens though...

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12-20-2011, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacklours View Post
I might have missed it but you mentionned something about retooling and all you did was post the same line-up we have right now.
This and i just love our frst line.

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12-20-2011, 10:37 AM
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habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacklours View Post
I might have missed it but you mentionned something about retooling and all you did was post the same line-up we have right now.
Well it might be due to injuries, but that d-core would be alot more different than what have had this season. IMO I see Kaberle being part of that retool, and so does that addition of Markov.

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12-20-2011, 10:37 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I might be one of a few, but I strongly still see this team being a good team having a bad season, example 2007 Flyers. Flyers had a horrible seasons, retooled and were back on track the following year.

I think with some minor retooling, specially to the D-core, the Habs can do just that.

Looking at next season, I think we can be fine, going to a new division where the only team that might be clearly better than us is the Bruins, and I while they might be a better team overall, I think we have the advantage when playing vs each other.

With the right coach, maybe Martin Raymond, Benoit Groulx, or maybe Roy. And if PG is gone, maybe Julien Brisebois as GM )the scout staff is good, so they won't be need for a major overhaul in that department),I think with some minor retooling going into next season with a core of the following below we can be a top 8-12 team in the league.

***I just put names like Gleason,Hecht and Prust that I think would be good as replacement for guys that might not stay like Moen A.Kost, Gill, but the cap structure should be the same.


FORWARDS

Cammalleri ($6.000m) / Plekanec ($5.000m) / Gionta ($5.000m)

Pacioretty ($1.625m) / Desharnais ($0.850m) / Cole ($4.500m)

Kostitsyn/Jochen Hecht ($3.750m) / Eller ($1.500m) / Leblanc ($1.170m)

Moen OR Prust($1.500m) / Nokelainen ($0.550m) / White($0.625m)


DEFENSEMEN

Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($1.000m)

Tim Gleason OR Bryan Allen ($3.500m) / P.K. Subban ($3.750m)

Tomas Kaberle ($4.250m) / Josh Gorges ($3.500m)

Raphael Diaz ($1.000m) / Yannick Weber ($0.850m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($5.000m) / Peter Budaj ($1.150m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,020,000; BONUSES: $300,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,480,000
Over payment for Price and PK, Price 4 mill and 2.75 for PK. neither one has proven anything yet. 2 million to spend on another need,
Cammy or Gionta has to go, or maybe both, 11 million to be spent on size. Move gomaz "anywhere" and you have 19 million to spend on "good" players

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12-20-2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
Over payment for Price and PK, Price 4 mill and 2.75 for PK. neither one has proven anything yet. 2 million to spend on another need,
Cammy or Gionta has to go, or maybe both, 11 million to be spent on size. Move gomaz "anywhere" and you have 19 million to spend on "good" players
Its would be very heard to move guys like Cammy and Gionta without getting big contracts back, and I think both deserve atleast one more season with the Habs.

But I see the main issues with the D which needs most of the work. We started the season with (in no order)

Campoli-Gorges
Gill-Daiz
Spacek -Subban

And we have a chance to go forward with

Markov-Emelin
Gleason/Allen-Subban
Kabrle-Gorges

IMO that has a chance to go from being one of the worst D-core to a very good one.

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12-20-2011, 10:45 AM
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They made big moves, they didn't bring back the same lineup like you're doing

They traded Zhitnik to Atlanta for Coburn, in the off season acquired Timonen and Hartnell from Nashville. They also drafted JVR 2nd overall

Keeping the same team next year will have us fighting for 8th again, and yes including a healthy Markov

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12-20-2011, 10:46 AM
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Yeah I'd be down for a one year tank. This is a better year to do it than 2007, as well. Grigorenko/Yakupov/Forsberg are way better than James Van Riemsdyk. Not that Philly's success had much to do with that draft, anyways, it had much more to do with the 2003 and 2006 draft.

But looking at the first round this year, maybe this is the year to finally get an impact forward prospect. There are more than a few in the first round this year.

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Old
12-20-2011, 10:51 AM
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habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
They made big moves, they didn't bring back the same lineup like you're doing

They traded Zhitnik to Atlanta for Coburn, in the off season acquired Timonen and Hartnell from Nashville. They also drafted JVR 2nd overall

Keeping the same team next year will have us fighting for 8th again, and yes including a healthy Markov
While they might not be at the same level, but Karble for Spacek, and if we keep going the way we are we can get a top 10 pick in a strong draft, a bit similar IMO.

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12-20-2011, 10:55 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
They made big moves, they didn't bring back the same lineup like you're doing

They traded Zhitnik to Atlanta for Coburn, in the off season acquired Timonen and Hartnell from Nashville. They also drafted JVR 2nd overall

Keeping the same team next year will have us fighting for 8th again, and yes including a healthy Markov
Considering we are fighting for 8th without Markov, Gionta, Gomez and White, you'd think we'd be exactly right we are today with them in the line up?

You've been pretty critical all year, but no need to be over dramatic. Having those guys in over Leblanc, Blunden and Markov would help, a lot.

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12-20-2011, 10:58 AM
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For those wondering what the Philly retool was:

2007-02-15 Flyers Ryan Parent, Scottie Upshall, 2007 first round pick (#23-Jonathon Blum), 2007 third round pick (#84-Phil Desimone) Peter Forsberg trade with Predators
2007-02-24 Flyers Braydon Coburn Alexei Zhitnik trade with Thrashers
2007-02-26 Flyers Lasse Kukkonen, 2007 third round pick (#66-Garrett Klotz) Kyle Calder 3-team trade with Blackhawks & Red Wings
2007-02-27 Flyers Martin Biron 2007 second round pick (#31-T.J. Brennan) trade with Sabres
2007-03-27 Flyers Martin Biron re-signed to a 2-year contract extension
2007-05-11 Flyers Scottie Upshall re-signed to a 2-year contract
2007-05-14 Flyers Ben Eager re-signed to a 2-year contract
2007-06-14 Flyers Antero Niittymaki re-signed to a 2-year contract
2007-06-18 Flyers Kimmo Timonen signed to a 6-year contract
2007-06-18 Flyers Kimmo Timonen, Scott Hartnell 2007 first round pick (#23-Jonathon Blum) trade with Predators
2007-06-18 Flyers Scott Hartnell signed to a 6-year contract
2007-06-22 Flyers James van Riemsdyk first round pick (#2 overall)
2007-06-23 Flyers 2007 second round pick (#41-Kevin Marshall) 2007 third round pick (#84-Phil Desimone), 2008 second round pick (#58-Dmitri Kugryshev / Dmitry Kugryshev) trade with Capitals
2007-07-01 Flyers Scott Hartnell re-signed to a 6-year contract
2007-07-01 Flyers Daniel Briere / Danny Briere signed unrestricted free agent to an 8-year contract
2007-07-01 Flyers Jason Smith (M.), Joffrey Lupul Joni Pitkanen, Geoff Sanderson, 2009 third round pick (#82-Cameron Abney) trade with Oilers
2007-07-01 Flyers Kimmo Timonen re-signed to a 6-year contract

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Old
12-20-2011, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Considering we are fighting for 8th without Markov, Gionta, Gomez and White, you'd think we'd be exactly right we are today with them in the line up?

You've been pretty critical all year, but no need to be over dramatic. Having those guys in over Leblanc, Blunden and Markov would help, a lot.
Injuries happen to every team not just us. Markov was signed injured by our incompetent GM. The GM is also responsible to make sure the team has depth which he hasn't (forward wise). You know me Kriss I love the Habs just as much as the next guy but Pierre Gauthier needs to go and he needs to go before the trade deadline or we are ****ed for even more years to come

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12-20-2011, 11:03 AM
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I would build around:

XXXXX - Plekanec - Gionta
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
XXXXX - Eller - Leblanc
XXXXX - White - XXXXX

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Kaberle - XXXXX

Price
Budaj

Time to trade Cammalleri, Gomez, Kostitsyn, Moen, Darche, Nokelainen, Campoli, Diaz, Weber to get younger, cheaper and BIGGER!!!

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12-20-2011, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
Over payment for Price and PK, Price 4 mill and 2.75 for PK. neither one has proven anything yet. 2 million to spend on another need,
Cammy or Gionta has to go, or maybe both, 11 million to be spent on size. Move gomaz "anywhere" and you have 19 million to spend on "good" players
Your posts always brighten up my day bro.

No way Price gets 4 or lower.

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12-20-2011, 11:08 AM
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habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
I would build around:

XXXXX - Plekanec - Gionta
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
XXXXX - Eller - Leblanc
XXXXX - White - XXXXX

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Kaberle - XXXXX

Price
Budaj

Time to trade Cammalleri, Gomez, Kostitsyn, Moen, Darche, Nokelainen, Campoli, Diaz, Weber to get younger, cheaper and BIGGER!!!
Man, this is what I was pretty much saying, expect that you made it a lot simpler lol.

Main msg was that there is a good core to start with, and more importantly the cap will not be an issue

With the line you mentioned (I would like to keep Cammy), we would have room to sign a 3-4Million top 9 player (Stoll/Stempniak/Hecht), a 3-4 Million stay at home d-men (Gleason/Stuart), and 2 very good 4th line players (McClement/ Prust).

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12-20-2011, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Management, and upper management have a philosophy that doesn't work in today's game. Nothing will change until Molson has the balls to wipe out everyone from the top down who think building a team around small players will accomplish anything.
this

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12-20-2011, 11:13 AM
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Diaz and Weber are young and cheap, why get rid of them ?

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12-20-2011, 11:13 AM
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Lol at the moving of Diaz. Seriously, I don't understand the hate this guys gets. As it stands right now he is clearly above Emelin in terms of overall play. The only thing he doesn't have is the physical play.

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Old
12-20-2011, 11:17 AM
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Philly also had Richards and Carter in the system/breaking out. We don't have that. I still say we need to work on getting a REALLY good top-3 forward, probably a guy with size. I think you have to do it through the draft, but if its though the trade, the only untouchables have to be Subban, Patches and Price. Everything else is negotiable.

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12-20-2011, 11:20 AM
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Subban for Staal

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12-20-2011, 11:21 AM
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habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackZap View Post
this
To reply to you and "Habs"

The only one really left from a few years ago in regards to management is PG, and maybe Gainey if you want associate the two. Since Molson can in, pretty much everything has changed from Team President to most of the scouting, and it seems as though most of the acquisitions through trade and draft have been guys with size.

But like I said, If PG is replaced in the summer, that would actually bring a whole change to the organisation since Molson took over.

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12-20-2011, 11:21 AM
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Management, and upper management have a philosophy that doesn't work in today's game. Nothing will change until Molson has the balls to wipe out everyone from the top down who think building a team around small players will accomplish anything.
I agree with your statment. I think it is no coincidence that our best line has been the Pacorietty-Dehranais-Cole line. There are two big bodies there that cause nothing but problems for the opposition. Cole has really impressed this season with his 13 goals thus far; he has gotten them because of skill and playing like a mack truck. We need more of these type of players in the lineup, especially that big number one centre who can score 80+ points a season!!

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12-20-2011, 11:21 AM
  #25
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Subban for Staal
Hello salary cap!

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