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Trade Proposals and Rumors Part XX

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Old
01-02-2012, 09:47 AM
  #276
TeamRenzo
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Originally Posted by Nabokov20 View Post
If the Sens are outof the playoffs heading into the deadline, any J-Bo takers?

Maybe something like: Foligno, Butler and Kuba for J-Bo and a 3rd at the deadline.

We've got the necessary cap space to take on the remaining 2 years of his contract at cap hit of 6.68M (plus Gonchar 5.5M cap hit comes off after 2012-13...and Alfie's 4.875M too )

Post deadline D

Cowen - Karlsson
J-Bo - Lee
Phillips - Gonchar
Carkner

2012-13 forwards

9MM - Spezza - Z-Bad
Filatov - Turris - Alfie
Silfverberg - Smith - Condra
Greening - XXX - Neil

Thoughts?

FYI, I still believe in J-Bo and I don't really like Foligno.
Gomez sucks.
NO!!

Why are people so quick to deal Foligno?

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01-02-2012, 09:50 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by nanuuq View Post
based on the odds, we are not going to make the playoffs.
Someone should let the team know so they don't waste their time playing all these meaningless games. Could save a lot of time and money by just staying home if they aren't going to make it anyways.

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Old
01-02-2012, 10:40 AM
  #278
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I would take J-Bo if it meant giving up zero value in return (i.e not Foligno). It would mean selling off Kuba at the deadline too, but would allow us to compete for a playoff spot while also recouping picks. That being said, I doubt Calgary gives him away for a collection of Ottawa's garbage.

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01-02-2012, 10:44 AM
  #279
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Screw JayBo. Character-less and overpaid by 2 mil.

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01-02-2012, 10:45 AM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
I would take J-Bo if it meant giving up zero value in return (i.e not Foligno). It would mean selling off Kuba at the deadline too, but would allow us to compete for a playoff spot while also recouping picks. That being said, I doubt Calgary gives him away for a collection of Ottawa's garbage.
A Bouwmeester - Karlsson pairing would be unstoppable.

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01-02-2012, 10:49 AM
  #281
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01-02-2012, 10:50 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Screw JayBo. Character-less and overpaid by 2 mil.
$2M is generous. $3M is more like it.

IMO, his impact ranks with a healthy Kuba or Redden. But the guy makes twice as much as Kuba and we can't afford to dispose of $6.8M in the minors.

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01-02-2012, 10:54 AM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeTigre View Post
A Bouwmeester - Karlsson pairing would be unstoppable.
no....no it wouldn't.

It wouldn't be much better then a Cowen-Karlsson pairing, and besides..Bouwmeester has regressed every year since joining the Flames...not exactly the type of player we want our young guys to be around imo.

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Old
01-02-2012, 10:58 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
$2M is generous. $3M is more like it.

IMO, his impact ranks with a healthy Kuba or Redden. But the guy makes twice as much as Kuba and we can't afford to dispose of $6.8M in the minors.
Yeah I sat there and contemplated 3 million

I wouldn't care much to put this guy on the team even if he was being paid correctly. Not exactly a "winner"....and certainly doesn't play like one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
no....no it wouldn't.

It wouldn't be much better then a Cowen-Karlsson pairing, and besides..Bouwmeester plays the right side as well....so I'm not really sure how that would even work.
Even if Cowen was making 6.5 on the cap or whatever...we might even currently be better off with Cowen. At least he's hard to play against.

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01-02-2012, 11:07 AM
  #285
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I think fans are going to need to prepare themselves for the lack of any kind of sell-off at the trade deadline this year. Unless there's a big time nosedive in the next 4-6 weeks, the team will still be considered in the playoff race at the deadline so it's going to be hard for Murray to justify to his players why it would be a good idea to deal off 1 or 2 veterans for picks which would effectively neuter their chances at making a run in the latter part of the season. Based on this reality, it would not be shocking for Kuba (who fans seem to have destined for another postal code/ZIP code by the end of the year) to remain on the team only to leave as a free agent this summer.

The comforting indicator is that very recently Murray did make some statements that seemed to recognize that making rental type moves at the deadline would be counterproductive so we probably wouldn't see picks for rentals happening either. More than likely, not much of anything happens this deadline and the Sens go with what they have to try and make the playoffs. The only exception might be a trade like the Turris one, where a younger player with upside but who is also playing in the NHL now is acquired in exchange for a roster player. But those types of deals don't seem to happen at the trade deadline very often so it's more likely that nothing of consequence ends up taking place.

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01-02-2012, 11:10 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
$2M is generous. $3M is more like it.

IMO, his impact ranks with a healthy Kuba or Redden. But the guy makes twice as much as Kuba and we can't afford to dispose of $6.8M in the minors.
Poor comparison. Kuba and Redden are/were offensive specialists. On awful teams in Florida, Bouwmeester put up better numbers than Kuba and totally comparable numbers to prime Redden on a stacked Ottawa team. All the while, he's been superior defensively.

If we subtracted Kuba and added Bouwmeester, we'd be much better off.

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01-02-2012, 11:10 AM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
I think fans are going to need to prepare themselves for the lack of any kind of sell-off at the trade deadline this year. Unless there's a big time nosedive in the next 4-6 weeks, the team will still be considered in the playoff race at the deadline so it's going to be hard for Murray to justify to his players why it would be a good idea to deal off 1 or 2 veterans for picks which would effectively neuter their chances at making a run in the latter part of the season. Based on this reality, it would not be shocking for Kuba (who fans seem to have destined for another postal code/ZIP code by the end of the year) to remain on the team only to leave as a free agent this summer.

The comforting indicator is that very recently Murray did make some statements that seemed to recognize that making rental type moves at the deadline would be counterproductive so we probably wouldn't see picks for rentals happening either. More than likely, not much of anything happens this deadline and the Sens go with what they have to try and make the playoffs. The only exception might be a trade like the Turris one, where a younger player with upside but who is also playing in the NHL now is acquired in exchange for a roster player. But those types of deals don't seem to happen at the trade deadline very often so it's more likely that nothing of consequence ends up taking place.
100% agreed.

Imo, if anything, we will be active on the waiver wire come deadline time.

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Old
01-02-2012, 11:12 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
no....no it wouldn't.

It wouldn't be much better then a Cowen-Karlsson pairing, and besides..Bouwmeester has regressed every year since joining the Flames...not exactly the type of player we want our young guys to be around imo.
He regressed offensively. I'd argue that was due in large part to the system within which he's been placed.

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Old
01-02-2012, 11:13 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by LeTigre View Post
Poor comparison. Kuba and Redden are/were offensive specialists. On awful teams in Florida, Bouwmeester put up better numbers than Kuba and totally comparable numbers to prime Redden on a stacked Ottawa team. All the while, he's been superior defensively.

If we subtracted Kuba and added Bouwmeester, we'd be much better off.
The value in that trade off wouldn't be very good.

JayBo's a very average PP QB.

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01-02-2012, 11:17 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
The value in that trade off wouldn't be very good.

JayBo's a very average PP QB.
I was dealing in hypotheticals.. you're correct insofar as that trade wouldn't go down like that.

And yes, he is an average PP QB.

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01-02-2012, 11:19 AM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeTigre View Post
A Bouwmeester - Karlsson pairing would be unstoppable.
A Kuba/karlsson pairing would be much better.

If Kuba wanted to re-sign for similar money on a shortish deal (1-2 years) I would be all over it.


Also that peca video was pretty funny.

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01-02-2012, 11:20 AM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeTigre View Post
Poor comparison. Kuba and Redden are/were offensive specialists. On awful teams in Florida, Bouwmeester put up better numbers than Kuba and totally comparable numbers to prime Redden on a stacked Ottawa team. All the while, he's been superior defensively.

If we subtracted Kuba and added Bouwmeester, we'd be much better off.
I'd rather keep the $6.5 million we'd spend on J-Bo and try and sign Parise this summer, on D we have our 2 studs and good depth, we don't need a $6.5 million second fiddle D to Karlsson.

We actually need top 6 Winger help, our top 4 D is pretty solid (and young) for the future.

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01-02-2012, 11:21 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by BumperStumper View Post
A Kuba/karlsson pairing would be much better.

If Kuba wanted to re-sign for similar money on a shortish deal (1-2 years) I would be all over it.


Also that peca video was pretty funny.
If you're talking cap-wise or value-wise, maybe you're right. Kuba makes about what he should make while Bouwmeester is undoubtedly overpaid.

On ice performance-wise? Bouwmeester is a better player than Kuba. If you think otherwise, give your head a shake.

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01-02-2012, 11:25 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
I'd rather keep the $6.5 million we'd spend on J-Bo and try and sign Parise this summer, on D we have our 2 studs and good depth, we don't need a $6.5 million second fiddle D to Karlsson.

We actually need top 6 Winger help, our top 4 D is pretty solid (and young) for the future.
If it came down to one or the other (I have a sneaking suspicion that it will be neither) I'd take Parise any day.

However, while we need top six winger help for sure, you can't say our top 4 D is solid while we're floating around last place in the league for goals against, can you?

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01-02-2012, 11:29 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by LeTigre View Post
Poor comparison. Kuba and Redden are/were offensive specialists. On awful teams in Florida, Bouwmeester put up better numbers than Kuba and totally comparable numbers to prime Redden on a stacked Ottawa team. All the while, he's been superior defensively.

If we subtracted Kuba and added Bouwmeester, we'd be much better off.

Uh, no. Neither Redden or Kuba were offensive specialists... both have been two-way D-men throughout their entire careers.

And no, Jay-Bo isn't any sort of shutdown specialist or defensive wizard. On an average team he'd probably be on the shutdown pairing, but not the 1st PK unit... because he's very good in transition but relatively weak down low.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeTigre View Post
He regressed offensively. I'd argue that was due in large part to the system within which he's been placed.
No, he's regressed offensively because the Flames probably aren't pushing him offensively the way the Panthers did to try to develop him as an all-round D-man. The Flames simply realize that a lot of D-men are better offensively than he is because offensive creativity/instincts come naturally to them... whereas they'll probably have to constantly prod Jay-Bo to get more involved.

He's a grossly overrated Bret Hedican right now.

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01-02-2012, 11:34 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by LeTigre View Post
If it came down to one or the other (I have a sneaking suspicion that it will be neither) I'd take Parise any day.

However, while we need top six winger help for sure, you can't say our top 4 D is solid while we're floating around last place in the league for goals against, can you?
I think our goals against has a lot more to do with goaltending and having a young team - our overall team D will be much better once guys like Turris, Greening, Cowen and Karlsson, Lee get better with age -

but that being said I don't know if Bouwmeester is the answer - throw that money at Shea Webber or Ryan Sutter and I'm all for it, Bouwmesster doesn't add anything we don't have already, I'd rather keep Kuba for $3 million to be honest and sign Tuumo Ruutu with the other $3.5 million it would cost to get J-Bo into our Cap at $6.5.

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01-02-2012, 11:39 AM
  #297
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I wouldn't trade ANYONE on our roster for Jay-Bo.

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01-02-2012, 11:41 AM
  #298
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Jbo is 3, 4 D man at best. Can't believe people haven't caught on to this guy yet. He could very well go down as the player to play the most regular season games in NHL history without playing a game in the playoffs.

In 10 years he's proven he's a soft, overpaid, underachieving D man who plays with next to no passion. I'll take Kuba, Gonchar, Karlsson, Phillips, and Cowen over him every single day of the week, even if all were making the same cash.

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01-02-2012, 12:06 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Uh, no. Neither Redden or Kuba were offensive specialists... both have been two-way D-men throughout their entire careers.

And no, Jay-Bo isn't any sort of shutdown specialist or defensive wizard. On an average team he'd probably be on the shutdown pairing, but not the 1st PK unit... because he's very good in transition but relatively weak down low.



No, he's regressed offensively because the Flames probably aren't pushing him offensively the way the Panthers did to try to develop him as an all-round D-man. The Flames simply realize that a lot of D-men are better offensively than he is because offensive creativity/instincts come naturally to them... whereas they'll probably have to constantly prod Jay-Bo to get more involved.

He's a grossly overrated Bret Hedican right now.
Jay-Bo's SH TOI rankings 05/06-11/12 among defencemen: 16, 10, 14, 34, 5, 13, 7
Redden's SH TOI rankings 05/06-11/12 among defencemen: 107, 126, 152, 128, 109, /, /
Kuba's SH TOI rankings 05/06-11/12 among defencemen: 56, 132, 55, 98, 69, 72, 13

Jay-Bo has consistently been a number one unit shut-down guy. He's done that while often putting up 12-15 goal, 40-plus point seasons, while playing all 82 games, and while typically leading the NHL in minutes played.

He isn't a comparable to either Redden or Kuba. While all three are/were first unit PP guys, neither Kuba nor Redden are/were solid first unit PK guys (until this year for Kuba).

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01-02-2012, 12:09 PM
  #300
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Jay bo is a smooth skater, and I think that somehow makes people think he is an offensive defenseman. He's soft as butter and in no way should he be worth what Sutter paid for him. With Karlsson getting a huge raise this summer why would we saddle our team with Bouwmeester's albatross?

Also he has as much NHL playoff experience as Jared Cowen

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