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The Management thread 3.0 (All GM/Coaching discussion here)

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Old
12-22-2011, 07:23 PM
  #201
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I would like to add this.. Who is our actual best player? Cole.. Who signing him? Gauthier..

Who would have thought our offense would struggle that much with Cole playing great hockey added to last year line-up? Some guys are more than playing below expectations.. thats the only reasonning..

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12-22-2011, 07:24 PM
  #202
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What you don't understand is that RC is interim. At this point Geoff Molson came out and blatantly said that there will be another coach. A french speaking coach.

All this fuzz just because some people can't see farther than their own nose.

Something had to be done, JM was fired, the habs would've never hired a guy like Carlyle. It takes time when language is a determinant factor in the identity of our new coach. Ao PG did what he had to do and put the most competent guy in the organization in that role. It happens that this guy only speaks english and not french.
Why not? IMO he is the best coach available right now. If this guy is still available this summer and the Habs hire someone less qualified based on 1 ****in criteria, I'm gonna be royally pissed.

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12-22-2011, 07:42 PM
  #203
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Hiring Jacques Martin? no

Signing Gomez Cammalleri Gionta? No
The guy was head of pro scouting when these moves were made. He was the guy who went to Gainey and said "yes, I agree that these players are a good fit". As much as some hate to admit it, Gauthier does share part of the blame for every signing made during the Gainey era.

As for Martin, he was Gauthier's recommendation. They go way back together, it's foolish to think Gauthier didn't have a big part to play in Martin's hiring.

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Trading Halak for Eller and Schultz? Yeah.. and I still like that trade
I like that trade too, though I wonder if he could have gotten more.

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Gauthier has been pretty active since he has been hired, he traded a third round pick for Dominic Moore 2 years ago, a guy who quite stabilized our center line and who has been a big part of the Habs success in what has been one of the most spectacular playoffs race in years.. Thx to Halak, but thx to Gauthier as well for fixing a big hole down the middle.. Last year was the Wiz move, we traded a second round pick away to repair the roof, what gave us the an exciting end of season as well as a great war to our eternal rivals, the Bruins.. We were 1 goal away to stop them..
Those were good moves, I agree, but I don't like how we did not even try to retain those players. Wiz I understand...He was looking for a big payday and it was unlikely he would stay here without big overpayment. But not signing Moore bugged the hell out of me. He was AWESOME for us, and has been very good for Tampa Bay. Why did we not keep him? We paid a very high price for him, and no effort was made to retain him. We ended up signing Halpern the next year instead, who again was good for us and again we made no effort to retain. Then we go into this season with no 4th line centre and thus AGAIN are forced to trade for one. We constantly have to plug the same hole every year, yet we never make any effort to keep the guys that do well here.

I really, really dislike Gauthier. He is too similar to Gainey, except he's not as likeable. He makes strange decisions, his moves have awful timing, and it makes the team look like a Mickey Mouse organization. Agree or disagree with the decision, but the Pearn firing was very poorly executed. The Martin firing as well. And Cunneyworth's promotion and the **** storm that followed that extremely badly handled.

At some point I do place some of the blame on Molson, since I do see some mistakes on his end (the statement after Randy was hired). Ultimately, the loss of Boivin is a much bigger impact than I first thought it would be.

I never liked Boivin that much. He was a great president from a business point of view, though I felt that his mindset was the reason we were always middle of the pack (a very profitable business plan). I was glad when he was gone because I thought it would mean a new direction, whether it be a full rebuild or perhaps something else. But the lack of professionalism since he's been gone is glaring. Couple that with the loss of Lalonde and the marketing staff...There is definitely something different about the team and the Bell Centre this year.

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12-22-2011, 08:02 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Hiring Jacques Martin? no

Signing Gomez Cammalleri Gionta? No

Trading Halak for Eller and Schultz? Yeah.. and I still like that trade

Not resigning papy Hamrlik who has been a healthy scratch for the Caps?

Trading an over hyped physical defenseman for a young promising Quebecer in Bournival? Yeah
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I do not think Gauthier has been as bad as a lot of people are saying. His hands have been tied by previous decisions. And even for those of us who think we need to be sellers now, it would have been unrealistic to expect him to change the core less than two years after a new core was installed. He has been more proactive. And I like some of the moves he has made. He has shown an effort to change. I don't blame him for trying to improve the powerplay with Kaberle, and we didn't trade our future away on him. He had to attempt something. And Wiz was a good signing last year.

But while he has been better, is this really the guy to build the team we want? Analyzing it, I certainly do see some valid excuses for many of the things people complain about from him. But is this the best GM for the job. The fact that we can't blame him for some things, and that his hands may be tied, does that prove he is a good GM? He was originally installed as an interim. And what about his past record with other teams?

And I know it's speculation, but if there is any truth to the stories about the particulars of Martin's firing or the way Spacek found out about his trade (and I don't see why he would make that up).........that's definitely a concern as well.


Last edited by andy28: 12-22-2011 at 08:12 PM.
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12-22-2011, 08:14 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
The guy was head of pro scouting when these moves were made. He was the guy who went to Gainey and said "yes, I agree that these players are a good fit". As much as some hate to admit it, Gauthier does share part of the blame for every signing made during the Gainey era.

As for Martin, he was Gauthier's recommendation. They go way back together, it's foolish to think Gauthier didn't have a big part to play in Martin's hiring.

I like that trade too, though I wonder if he could have gotten more.

Those were good moves, I agree, but I don't like how we did not even try to retain those players. Wiz I understand...He was looking for a big payday and it was unlikely he would stay here without big overpayment. But not signing Moore bugged the hell out of me. He was AWESOME for us, and has been very good for Tampa Bay. Why did we not keep him? We paid a very high price for him, and no effort was made to retain him. We ended up signing Halpern the next year instead, who again was good for us and again we made no effort to retain. Then we go into this season with no 4th line centre and thus AGAIN are forced to trade for one. We constantly have to plug the same hole every year, yet we never make any effort to keep the guys that do well here.

I really, really dislike Gauthier. He is too similar to Gainey, except he's not as likeable. He makes strange decisions, his moves have awful timing, and it makes the team look like a Mickey Mouse organization. Agree or disagree with the decision, but the Pearn firing was very poorly executed. The Martin firing as well. And Cunneyworth's promotion and the **** storm that followed that extremely badly handled.

At some point I do place some of the blame on Molson, since I do see some mistakes on his end (the statement after Randy was hired). Ultimately, the loss of Boivin is a much bigger impact than I first thought it would be.

I never liked Boivin that much. He was a great president from a business point of view, though I felt that his mindset was the reason we were always middle of the pack (a very profitable business plan). I was glad when he was gone because I thought it would mean a new direction, whether it be a full rebuild or perhaps something else. But the lack of professionalism since he's been gone is glaring. Couple that with the loss of Lalonde and the marketing staff...There is definitely something different about the team and the Bell Centre this year.
Yeah, but nobody really know how much was Gauthier involved in those decisions.. At the end, it was Gainey who retooled that team.. As for not keeping Moore, I agree a bit with you, I was really surprised to not see the Habs at least make him a decent offer but I think the Halak Eller trade was the turning point of that decision.. A Plekanec Gomez Eller Halpern center line wasnt too bad looking..

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12-22-2011, 08:28 PM
  #206
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We still suck because of Martin ?

But its not that surprising, especially here, you dont know what you have until it's gone. We had a solid and experienced coach, with a structure, and we fired him. Why ? I dont even know, considering the circumstances.
Simply because he is boring and called "defensive" ? What a shame.

Each time i'm coming on the boards, i'm scared. Scared of a new terrible decision hockey-wise, scared by the incredibly stupid knee-jerk reactions of way too many posters and people involved in the medias, which are actually not that far from the ones made by the team and as long as Gauthier and Molson (that part should absolutely not be forgotten) are going to take the decisions (at least until who is the most responsable of that current mess is known), we are certainly not going to be successful. Yakupov or not.

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12-22-2011, 08:31 PM
  #207
Nashy
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What "piss poor" decision is that?
The one where Gauthier....

Fires a coach a week before Christmas....classy.

Installs an interim....(read lame duck), anglophone coach....brilliant.

Causes a **** storm that takes everyone's focus off the games and onto the sideshow that is now the Montreal Canadiens.

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12-22-2011, 08:41 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
We still suck because of Martin ?

But its not that surprising, especially here, you dont know what you have until it's gone. We had a solid and experienced coach, with a structure, and we fired him. Why ? I dont even know, considering the circumstances.
Simply because he is boring and called "defensive" ? What a shame.

Each time i'm coming on the boards, i'm scared. Scared of a new terrible decision hockey-wise, scared by the incredibly stupid knee-jerk reactions of way too many posters and people involved in the medias, which are actually not that far from the ones made by the team and as long as Gauthier and Molson (that part should absolutely not be forgotten) are going to take the decisions (at least until who is the most responsable of that current mess is known), we are certainly not going to be successful. Yakupov or not.
I'm still having a hard time thinking that the decision to fire Martin came from Gauthier. Doesn't make sense....

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12-22-2011, 08:51 PM
  #209
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Jacques Martin should get votes for this year's Jack Adams trophy for the success he had with this sorry bunch.

This is what happens when owner/GM make a knee-jerk reaction. This also exemplifies of how little the majority of media and HF posters (all wanted Martin's head on a platter) know about hockey.

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12-22-2011, 08:58 PM
  #210
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looks like it was Martin's defensive system wasn't so bad afterall.

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12-22-2011, 09:01 PM
  #211
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looks like it was Martin's defensive system wasn't so bad afterall.
I'm sure people are finding this a lot more exciting.

Hey, look at the bright side. Instead of risking blowing a (EDIT: third period) lead, they have an opportunity for an heroic comeback!


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12-22-2011, 09:04 PM
  #212
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I'm sure people are finding this a lot more exciting.

Hey, look at the bright side. Instead of risking blowing a 3-goal lead, they have an opportunity for an heroic comeback!
Or instead of heart wrenching 1 goal games, we can relax since we loose the game in the first period.

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12-22-2011, 09:09 PM
  #213
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Or instead of heart wrenching 1 goal games, we can relax since we loose the game in the first period.
Very true, watching the Habs now, is like when I quit smoking...I have a ton of extra free time.

Only have to watch 1 period, instead of 3.

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12-22-2011, 09:12 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Jacques Martin should get votes for this year's Jack Adams trophy for the success he had with this sorry bunch.

This is what happens when owner/GM make a knee-jerk reaction. This also exemplifies of how little the majority of media and HF posters (all wanted Martin's head on a platter) know about hockey.
Not all of us man. There was a solid contingent, albeit vastly outnumbered, that had a lot of respect for the guy.

I have never been so against a move the Habs have made ever.

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12-22-2011, 09:14 PM
  #215
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I'm still having a hard time thinking that the decision to fire Martin came from Gauthier. Doesn't make sense....
Thats the real problem of the current situation.
Molson did play a role in that mess, and that bizarre message he throw the other day is not here to calm the situation.

But how is he involved, and to what extent ?...
I do realize that we have different conceptions of the "job" of owning a sports club/franchise, especially since im a Euro and that i dont have the same approach, but as far as i know, its never positive when the owner start to make decisions related to the "sports" part of the operations, instead of the "business" ones.

Martin was bashed, unfairly, by a lot of people. In a way, the horrible results we have are interesting. A lot of people are just clueless.
If they can shut their mouth before saying something stupid (A : Eller is misused because of Martin ; B : We're sitting back way too much, we are built for being a run and gun team ; C : I want more emotion behind the bench...and there is more, sadly), now, that would be cool, but thats unfortunately not going to happen.

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12-22-2011, 09:15 PM
  #216
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I'm still having a hard time thinking that the decision to fire Martin came from Gauthier. Doesn't make sense....
Whoever made the decision was probably aware that replacing him with an assistant would not make us win. His being an interim means changes are coming.

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12-22-2011, 09:18 PM
  #217
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Not all of us man. There was a solid contingent, albeit vastly outnumbered, that had a lot of respect for the guy.

I have never been so against a move the Habs have made ever.
Yes indeed. That's why I said majority. I'm also willing to bet the majority of that majority of naysaying armchair coaches can't skate. The best is that same majority honestly thought this Habs team should open things up and abandon the structured defensive system of Jacques Martin. LOL!!! Hilarious how badly they misread the make-up/abilities of this roster.

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12-22-2011, 09:20 PM
  #218
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Martin was bashed, unfairly, by a lot of people. In a way, the horrible results we have are interesting. A lot of people are just clueless.
If they can shut their mouth before saying something stupid
To be fair, most people calling for a coaching change, wanted a replacement not a an inexperienced assistant. In any case, those people are not why Martin was fired.
I was scratching my head that day when I heard Cunneyworth was appointed. While I wanted a coaching change myself, I did like Martin, and I was not woohooing about it.

But I think it kind of makes sense now. As Molson said, this guy is an interim. I think its pretty much decided. Change is coming, we won't make any further additions to try to make the playoffs.

We were sucking before. Martin might very well have been our best chance to make 9th place.

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12-22-2011, 09:20 PM
  #219
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Martin was bashed, unfairly, by a lot of people. In a way, the horrible results we have are interesting. A lot of people are just clueless.
If they can shut their mouth before saying something stupid (A : Eller is misused because of Martin ; B : We're sitting back way too much, we are built for being a run and gun team ; C : I want more emotion behind the bench...and there is more, sadly), now, that would be cool, but thats unfortunately not going to happen.
That paragraph (especially the part that I bolded) says it all perfectly!

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12-22-2011, 09:23 PM
  #220
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Whoever made the decision was probably aware that replacing him with an assistant would not make us win. His being an interim means changes are coming.
Then with that in mind, whoever made the decision decided to pull the plug on the season WAY too early.

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12-22-2011, 09:28 PM
  #221
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To be fair, most people calling for a coaching change, wanted a replacement not a an inexperienced assistant. In any case, those people are not why Martin was fired.
I was scratching my head that day when I heard Cunneyworth was appointed. While I wanted a coaching change myself, I did like Martin, and I was not woohooing about it.

But I think it kind of makes sense now. As Molson said, this guy is an interim. I think its pretty much decided. Change is coming, we won't make any further additions to try to make the playoffs.

We were sucking before. Martin might very well have been our best chance to make 9th place.
Giving up in December is sad, actually it's beyond sad.

If that's the message the organization is sending to the fans, then there's no point in watching the Habs anymore this year.

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12-22-2011, 09:29 PM
  #222
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To be fair, most people calling for a coaching change, wanted a replacement not a an inexperienced assistant. In any case, those people are not why Martin was fired.
I was scratching my head that day when I heard Cunneyworth was appointed. While I wanted a coaching change myself, I did like Martin, and I was not woohooing about it.

But I think it kind of makes sense now. As Molson said, this guy is an interim. I think its pretty much decided. Change is coming, we won't make any further additions to try to make the playoffs.

We were sucking before. Martin might very well have been our best chance to make 9th place.
Again, the team is so badly shorthanded that during such a difficult stretch, absolutely not representative of the actual ability of the team, taking such an important decision, that far of the 82nd game, is absolutely stupid.
Without any replacement, to make things worse. You take that decision, without a replacement.

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12-22-2011, 09:29 PM
  #223
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I just never understood the move from the moment I heard about it.

Why fire Martin when he is giving you .500 hockey with a completely devastated lineup? The guy gave you nothing but results for the first two years, the least you could do is throw him a bone and fire him in the off season if that is the move you want to make.

To top it off, there is no replacement, it's just some guy that has been a lapdog all around the league and has no track record of success anywhere in the NHL as a coach.

So the team loses a couple games because they gave up the lead in the third a couple times? Cry me a freaking river.

One of the only strengths of the Habs this season was the coaching, now they have nothing.

I usually don't write off seasons before the mid-point (usually not at all), but I can't see how Cunneyworth can give you the same product (even close in fact) as Martin, and that means a sub-par .500 record, which won't cut it.

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12-22-2011, 09:31 PM
  #224
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We were sucking before. Martin might very well have been our best chance to make 9th place.
He just had to keep the Habs there until he got healthy and charge from there.

Instead, PG sacked the season.

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12-22-2011, 09:32 PM
  #225
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I just never understood the move from the moment I heard about it.

Why fire Martin when he is giving you .500 hockey with a completely devastated lineup? The guy gave you nothing but results for the first two years, the least you could do is throw him a bone and fire him in the off season if that is the move you want to make.

To top it off, there is no replacement, it's just some guy that has been a lapdog all around the league and has no track record of success anywhere in the NHL as a coach.

So the team loses a couple games because they gave up the lead in the third a couple times? Cry me a freaking river.

One of the only strengths of the Habs this season was the coaching, now they have nothing.

I usually don't write off seasons before the mid-point (usually not at all), but I can't see how Cunneyworth can give you the same product (even close in fact) as Martin, and that means a sub-par .500 record, which won't cut it
.
There's just no way. I've heard tank cries for 3 years and this is the only time I've supported it. Well...not like we have a choice now do we? lol

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