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8 ways to legally circumvent salary cap

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Old
12-22-2011, 05:08 PM
  #1
LadyStanley
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8 ways to legally circumvent salary cap

http://thehockeywriters.com/8-ways-t...hl-salary-cap/

Quote:
1. Put a player on the Long Term Injury Reserve (LTIR):
...
2. Bury a player’s contract into the minors (AHL):
...
3. Sign a player to a front-loaded multi-year contract:
...
4. Loan a player to an independent team overseas:
...
5. Dress less players than the mandatory minimum imposed by the league:
...
6. Sign a recently drafted player to an entry level contract and make him spend years outside the NHL:
...
7. Sign a free agent for a “reasonable” deal, and all of a sudden the same player signs a huge endorsement deal with a team sponsor:
...
8. Acquire a player with no intention of ever playing him and then buy him out to get salary-cap relief:


I will say that some of those border on illegality, especially the last, if circumventing collusion is found.


Last edited by LadyStanley: 12-22-2011 at 05:13 PM.
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12-22-2011, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
the only one on this list id say circumvents the cap is the team endorsement deal. And not only is that circumvention, but its illegal and covered by the CBA.

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12-22-2011, 06:16 PM
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5 can only happen in an emergency, right?

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12-22-2011, 06:39 PM
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Doesn't the league have to approve players being put on LTIR?

Most of these teams cannot do without help from players, agents, or the league.

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12-22-2011, 06:45 PM
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The league cannot mandate certain players must be played.

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12-22-2011, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shorton724 View Post
Doesn't the league have to approve players being put on LTIR?

Most of these teams cannot do without help from players, agents, or the league.
I do believe players on the LTIR must have sort of doctor's visit or something along those lines to qualify. The Penguins couldn't just make up something about Steve MacIntyre having a broken finger and stash him on the LTIR for a month just because we don't intend on playing the guy. I forget the official language of it, but I've heard Errey talk about it a few times.

And I'm 95% sure that #7 is covered by the CBA as it is and would be considered circumvention (in the punishable sense).

I'm not so certain about the language on #5, either...but I know the Devils have played a few games the past couple years with only 20 players on the roster and an injury or two causing fewer players to actually dress for games...I'm not sure if it's only allowed in 'emergency' situations or if it's just something that is unenforceable. I'm sure the Devils would have been able to recall a player from Trenton, if nothing else, if they had needed to meet a mythical mandatory number considering at least once (I'm thinking twice) the Devils played with 19 players last year knowing that the 20th player wasn't going to be able to play a day in advance. I really have no issue with that...I mean if a team is willing to give up the roster spot then it's a pretty self-governing problem. When you're entering a game with only 5 defenseman you're already putting yourself on thin ice...if I'm not mistaken they also lost another defenseman fairly early in one of those games, meaning they basically had 4 guys playing 30 minutes. It's hard to win games like that.

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Old
12-22-2011, 07:39 PM
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LadyStanley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shorton724 View Post
Doesn't the league have to approve players being put on LTIR?

Most of these teams cannot do without help from players, agents, or the league.
AFAIK a player cannot be put on "LTIR" (only IR) unless you know that a player will be out 10+ games and/or 24+ days. (Players can be put on LTIR retroactively if they end up being out long enough.)

What the actual "mechanism" is (between team/league) to put a player on the IR or LTIR I do not know. I would suspect that for an immediate placement on LTIR there has to be some medical evidence (doctor's report, more than just a trainer's word; etc.).


Now, if a player felt he was being kept on the IR/LTIR when he was healthy, he/agent/union could file a grievance against the team.

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12-22-2011, 08:43 PM
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Won't it be nice when this archaic nonsense is gone after this yer?

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12-22-2011, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Fehr Time View Post
Won't it be nice when this archaic nonsense is gone after this yer?

I want to see retroactive contracts applied to to teams

example

Luongo has a cap hit of 5.33 untill 2021/2022


if he retires before that that say after the 17/18 season(when he will and his contract will be 3.3, 1.6, 1, 1)) that would add 2mill to the nucks cap hit for 10 years to cover the 10 years his 5.33 was on the books

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12-22-2011, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
What the actual "mechanism" is (between team/league) to put a player on the IR or LTIR I do not know. I would suspect that for an immediate placement on LTIR there has to be some medical evidence (doctor's report, more than just a trainer's word; etc.).
In order to put a player on LTIR, the team physician must certify that the player is expected to be out for a minimum of 24 days and 10 games.

The League may challenge that determination - which is what happened with the Devils & Mogilney. In that case, the League & NHLPA confer and appoint an independent 3rd party physician to examine the player, review medical records, and make the final determination of whether the player is unfit to play due to a hockey related injury.

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Old
12-22-2011, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fehr Time View Post
Won't it be nice when this archaic nonsense is gone after this yer?


It's not going anywhere. If anything, it's going to get tougher. NBA and NFL unions just lost ground.

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12-22-2011, 11:29 PM
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NVM, figured it out!


Last edited by MarkMM: 12-22-2011 at 11:37 PM. Reason: Brainfart.
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Old
12-22-2011, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fehr Time View Post
Won't it be nice when this archaic nonsense is gone after this yer?
This "yer" is about as good as it's going to get, from your perspective. What makes you think that the players have more leverage than they had last time around?

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12-23-2011, 02:41 PM
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What I've been curious is how strict the CBA is.

Is it like the NCAA where if Daniel Sedin goes to dinner at some fancy restaurant in downtown Vancouver and the owner says he'll take care of the bill, he'll get the books thrown at him (I'm guessing not)

Can hockey players have a "second job". I assume if the Canucks signed Burrows as a pro scout for 3 million over 3 years it would be frowned upon... but what if some third party does this? Obviously if this was done overtly it would be put to a grinding halt.

You know the best way the Canucks circumvent the cap? Spend money on the team. State of the art everything.

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Old
12-23-2011, 03:56 PM
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Only 8 ways?

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Old
12-23-2011, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
In order to put a player on LTIR, the team physician must certify that the player is expected to be out for a minimum of 24 days and 10 games.

The League may challenge that determination - which is what happened with the Devils & Mogilney. In that case, the League & NHLPA confer and appoint an independent 3rd party physician to examine the player, review medical records, and make the final determination of whether the player is unfit to play due to a hockey related injury.
What happens long-term though?

Does anyone really think that Marc Savard is not effectively retired? By having him stay on LTIR for the rest of his contract, the Bruins don't get the cap hit. But they are a rich team so they can afford to keep paying him and use the cap space to pay other player(s).

Seems to me the same thing will happen with Pronger. We don't know yet of course, but I don't expect him to ever announce that he is retired. Announcing already that he is out for the rest of the year, including the playoffs which could end 6 months from now, appears to me as doctor(s) advising him never to play again. He simply won't come back to play; he'll stay on LTIR for all those years left on his contract, and the Flyers save the cap space to spend on somebody else.

Poorer teams presumably would not be able to afford swallowing such huge long-term contracts and adding other big contracts, but rich teams can.

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12-23-2011, 05:53 PM
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You can be the Islanders who actually pay out much less than the bottom portion of the salary cap only to reach the cap by giving out ridiculous unobtainable bonuses to guys like Pandolfo, Staiois, ect.

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Old
12-23-2011, 06:14 PM
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Four other ways I was thinking was
1. Hire a players mother, wife, dog for special services (not sure if there are rules around this).
2. Call up a player on re-entry waiver to pay only half his salary
3. As mentioned above, give big impossible bonuses to meet cap floor but not have to pay the salary in real dollars
4. Trade for an over the hill player in the last years of a front loaded contract so the actual salary paid is well below the cap hit.

2-4 are ways to meet cap floor but not pay actual money.

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Old
12-23-2011, 06:17 PM
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#5 isn't cap circumvention. Teams would only be allowed to dress less than 18 skaters and 2 goalies if:

1. they had less than those number of available players on the active roster; and

2. a) they had less than sufficient salary cap room left to add another player to the active roster or
b) they are unable to recall a player from the minors in time to meet the minimum roster requirement.

An example of a bona fide situation where a team would be allowed to dress less than 18 skaters where there was no salary cap concerns would be a player getting injured on game day, the team having no other healthy players available on the roster, and unable to recall a replacement player in time for the game.

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12-23-2011, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunomics View Post
You can be the Islanders who actually pay out much less than the bottom portion of the salary cap only to reach the cap by giving out ridiculous unobtainable bonuses to guys like Pandolfo, Staiois, ect.
Yep. I think four guys on a team that hasn't won a playoff series since 1993, have a $250,000 bonus for winning the Conn Smythe.

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12-23-2011, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://thehockeywriters.com/8-ways-t...hl-salary-cap/

[/B]

I will say that some of those border on illegality, especially the last, if circumventing collusion is found.
actually, the title of the 8th "method" has since been changed to "acquire a cheaper player".. it's the Rolston-Hunter trade, with the Devils getting Hunter and buying him out immediately later.

I actually fail to see how that's circumvention, or more precisely how Ehrhoff for Rahimi+White (low-level prospects with no shot at ever making the show) isn't circumvention too.. IMO that's all cap management, not cap circumvention.

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12-24-2011, 10:20 AM
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Looks like a Blackhawks offseason itinerary

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12-24-2011, 08:09 PM
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don't think you can sign a player and loan them to a overseas club. if that player is not waiver exempt, as in they need to pass through waivers

unless you don't care that the player will get picked up by another team

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12-27-2011, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by RandR View Post
What happens long-term though?

Does anyone really think that Marc Savard is not effectively retired? By having him stay on LTIR for the rest of his contract, the Bruins don't get the cap hit. But they are a rich team so they can afford to keep paying him and use the cap space to pay other player(s).

Seems to me the same thing will happen with Pronger. We don't know yet of course, but I don't expect him to ever announce that he is retired. Announcing already that he is out for the rest of the year, including the playoffs which could end 6 months from now, appears to me as doctor(s) advising him never to play again. He simply won't come back to play; he'll stay on LTIR for all those years left on his contract, and the Flyers save the cap space to spend on somebody else.

Poorer teams presumably would not be able to afford swallowing such huge long-term contracts and adding other big contracts, but rich teams can.
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but if Savard retires, the Bruins are cap-hit free. His contract comes off the books as it's not a 35+ contract. The fact that he's on LTIR means he keeps getting paid, and if the contract is insured, Boston isn't the one writing the checks. If he were to move off LTIR and retire, he'd stop receiving a paycheck, so it's not an example of cap circumvention.

Now if Philly were to do the same thing with Pronger, and it were allowed, that would be legal circumvention as he's on a 35+ contract and his retiring would leave Philly with his cap hit.

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Old
12-27-2011, 11:28 AM
  #25
Hank Chinaski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
And I'm 95% sure that #7 is covered by the CBA as it is and would be considered circumvention (in the punishable sense).
I'll have to check the CBA language as well, but this seems (at first glance) like something that would be relatively easy to get around.

Obviously you can't have players with endorsement deals that are directly tied to team owners and/or sponsors, basically any corporation within an arm's length of the team. However, what's to stop a team from negotiating a contract that includes a "handshake agreement" of an endorsement deal with a corporation that retains no affiliation with the team? That's something I've always wondered.

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