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Bob Gainey now with the team

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Old
12-24-2011, 02:15 PM
  #351
Habs 4 Life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
Mcguire changes his mind way too often. He went from hating the Price pick to being a Price fanboy to bashing the Halak deal back to being a Price fanboy...
He is also on TV and the radio and needs to make listeners happy. I doubt he would do that as a GM

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12-24-2011, 02:31 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by The Reem View Post
I agree about Chelios for Savard being a bad trade but the Recchi trade didn't look that bad back then. Sure we ended up getting the short end of the stick but people tend to forget that Recchi was coming off 123 and 107pts seasons and was a bonafide superstar in the league. Desjardins was a very solid defensemen and LeClair was showing signs of blossoming but not many people could have predicted that he would become a 50 goals scoring machine like he did in Philly.

In retrospective we lost that trade but it sure wasn't one of the worst of all time back then.
The Habs would have been more reluctant to trade Leclair if they had realized that he was a so-so center but great at LW, where could concentrate on scoring. That's the position he was given upon his arrival in Philadelphia. The Habs GM (and you know who it was) goofed royally on that trade, to say nothing of losing Desjardins.

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12-24-2011, 03:21 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Top Corner2 View Post
He thought we should have gotten a more proven player when we traded Halak for Eller. He didn't think Eller would amount to much....
He never said he wouldn't amount to much. He said he doesn't have the finish to be a consistent top 6 in the NHL and would be a very good 3rd line C. He isn't wrong so far...Eller has no finish at all, I don't think anyone can deny that.

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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Being the owner's friend doesn't mean they want to make you the GM. Guys like Geoff Molson didn't get where they are by hiring all their friends in key positions. McGuire has no experience in player personnel and his track record as a braodcaster is as a blowhard taht uses terms to try and make himself look smart. If he is hired as GM I will instantly start cheering for another team.
He also scouted and recruited Geoff Molson in college hockey...If anyone knows McGuire's "real" persona, especially related to hockey, it's Geoff Molson.

His TV persona is just that...A persona. He plays a character on TV, same as Don Cherry, same as the loser from Boston, same as the Buffalo guy who screams like a girl. None of these guys are like that in real life...It's all an act, they are TV personalities. If they were boring, regular dudes they wouldn't be on TV.

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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
Pierre "Peter" Mcguire is far too mercurial, way too hopped up on Cheetah Power Surge (no caffeine, and that's no bs, unlike the guy we sponsor), too impulsive and is just not the kind of presence we need at the helm of the Habs. Yes he knows all the ins and out of the NHL, the word on the beat, the projections, the gossip, etc. I think this influences him too much and he's prone to making rash judgements, akin to some you would find on reactionary message boards. I cannot stand listening to him commentate for the same reason he would make a terrible GM - he tries to reinforce his views that are based on thin pieces of evidence, common sense and he makes them facts. He sees what he wants to see. We would definitely see lots of moves with him. He would be very active, but I think he would bring down the organization to a whole new low.
Again, his on air personality is nothing like how he is in real life. He plays a part on TV...And based on everything he's said, I doubt he'd be impulsive. If anything the guy is very patient when it comes to making trades and such.

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Old
12-24-2011, 03:29 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
The Habs would have been more reluctant to trade Leclair if they had realized that he was a so-so center but great at LW, where could concentrate on scoring. That's the position he was given upon his arrival in Philadelphia. The Habs GM (and you know who it was) goofed royally on that trade, to say nothing of losing Desjardins.
Yeah he got killed in those trades. Yet those guys we received contributed in their own way. But he goofed. Yet again, what it's record with us as GM? And in the end, that is what will be mostly remembered.

Since 2003, we have 1 3rd round. From 1986 to 1993, that's 2 Cups and 1 Finals. That's why the Savard era will be rememberd as pretty good despite those trades. And that's what people just don't understand. YES. Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody has their share of great moves. But if your era is mostly positive, your mistakes will not appear as big. Detroit had their share of mistakes. Geez, everybody keeps talking about how their draft is great and yet, there were TONS of misses all over the place. But at one point they just needed 3 incredible picks. And were able to compensate once in a while. They clearly don't have the record that the Habs and Timmins have and yet.....WHO CARES.


Last edited by Whitesnake: 12-24-2011 at 03:34 PM.
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Old
12-24-2011, 03:34 PM
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
The Habs would have been more reluctant to trade Leclair if they had realized that he was a so-so center but great at LW, where could concentrate on scoring. That's the position he was given upon his arrival in Philadelphia. The Habs GM (and you know who it was) goofed royally on that trade, to say nothing of losing Desjardins.

Everybody (from what i remember) loved that trade when it happened... It was very hard to predict that Leclair would explode like that in Philly.


I don't want Savard at this point. He's a business man now.


I'd love McGuire for the reason someone just said, he's dedicated to youth!

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Old
12-24-2011, 03:41 PM
  #356
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I think Pierre Mcquire would do fine here.

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12-24-2011, 03:49 PM
  #357
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LOL - people complain about a coach with a decade of coaching under his belt as being too inexperienced to coach the Habs, but hiring a sportscaster with ZERO management experience would be fine. Unreal.
btw - Trevor T does not expect there to be a GM change now or in the offseason. He thinks PG's job will be safe for at least one more year.

Most GM's get at least three years to make their imprint.

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12-24-2011, 03:50 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Pine View Post
I'm all for Gainey as interim GM, before doing a complete and thorough search for a GM+coach...

Of course, this is provided that he knows what his mandate is, meaning don't trade futures for band-aids because the ceiling is leaking. In fact, that ceiling is long gone beyond repair and will need to be replaced.
but we turned every stone to find the best GM is PG. Gainey handed over the team to PG and thats enough to lose your job

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12-24-2011, 03:55 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
LOL - people complain about a coach with a decade of coaching under his belt as being too inexperienced to coach the Habs, but hiring a sportscaster with ZERO management experience would be fine. Unreal.
btw - Trevor T does not expect there to be a GM change now or in the offseason. He thinks PG's job will be safe for at least one more year.

Most GM's get at least three years to make their imprint.
I understand your point. Though, I'm pretty sure Trevor T didn't expect to see McDonagh go. Honestly, if we don't make the playoffs, there's just no way Gauthier keeps his job. No way. Besides, as a GM you do make an imprint way after you've been there anyway. I do not see what an additional will mean. Especially if they have somewhat in mind to replace him, yet, you'll give him one more year to do what? Will you not be less encline to give him the slack he needs if you are already thinking of replacing him? You might have at least 3 years for any GM.....but not with how Gauthier handled this year. No way. What kind of Mickey Mouse organization has it's owner choosing the next coach over his GM?

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Old
12-25-2011, 05:48 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I understand your point. Though, I'm pretty sure Trevor T didn't expect to see McDonagh go. Honestly, if we don't make the playoffs, there's just no way Gauthier keeps his job. No way. Besides, as a GM you do make an imprint way after you've been there anyway. I do not see what an additional will mean. Especially if they have somewhat in mind to replace him, yet, you'll give him one more year to do what? Will you not be less encline to give him the slack he needs if you are already thinking of replacing him? You might have at least 3 years for any GM.....but not with how Gauthier handled this year. No way. What kind of Mickey Mouse organization has it's owner choosing the next coach over his GM?
Well it was more than obvious that the Habs weren't going to win the cup.So having all the prospects trying out in the pre-season kind of slowed the team to start.then the rash of injuries which was out of his control, further jeopardized the Habs season and the coach firings hasn't really had a calming influence.But when they are all added up they put our team in contention for a lottery pick for the first time since the lockout.The Habs need some marquis players to bring back the old days of firewagon hockey and it appears Pierre Gauthier whether planned or not has them in good position for a nice pick not a bad consolation prize let's hope he gets to use the picks for long enough to bring a Cup parade for Montreal.

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Old
12-25-2011, 05:57 AM
  #361
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Wasn't the Chris Chelios trade a Ron Corey special?

Hard to blame le Senateur for that. Oh, he made his share of mistakes and him coming back in anything more than a council of elders type role is too much, but I'm not pinning the blame on him for that one.

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12-25-2011, 08:23 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
And that's what I want in my GM, one that is very aggressive. The Blues called about Halak, not the other way around. You really want him pay up! I love Eller but agree that we could have gotten more in return or a better player
Funny way to use the term "aggressive".

An aggressive GM would be one who would take more chances. An aggressive GM would call other GMs, not just wait for others to call him. An aggressive GM would make deals that are not super-obvious slam-dunk wins for his team.

A passive GM is often seen as one who over-values his own players and will rarely make any moves to try to help the team.

You are suggesting that PG should have waited for people to phone about Halak, and to hold out for a huge return if someone did. Now, I am not saying that is automatically the wrong approach, but it is most definitely NOT the "aggressive" approach. That is an approach that would delay, or even totally eliminate, the change to the roster.

In other words, trading Halak in the manner Gauthier did, was "aggressive", in my book. If the deal fails in the end, it would be from over-aggressiveness, not from passiveness.

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12-25-2011, 08:54 AM
  #363
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I'm pretty sure Gauthier was in contact with many teams about Halak. Halak's agent demanded that Price be traded as a condition of Halak's re-signing. The agent thought Halak had Gauthier over a barrel and could get a lot of money on his next contract. Gauthier didn't see it that way at all. Almost everyone (including fanboys in this site) overrated Halak. One particularly knowledgeable outsider who agreed with the decision to keep Price was Scotty Bowman. As usual, he knew more than the howler monkeys in the trees. So all the Habs got for Halak was a third line forward? In retrospect, all the Blues got for Eller was an overpaid backup goaltender. The money the Habs saved was significant.

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12-25-2011, 09:58 AM
  #364
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Please no McGuire.

I wouldn't mind Gainey back. Personnally, I don't think Gauthier has been bad at all, we'll see what happens.

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12-25-2011, 11:17 AM
  #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I'm pretty sure Gauthier was in contact with many teams about Halak. Halak's agent demanded that Price be traded as a condition of Halak's re-signing. The agent thought Halak had Gauthier over a barrel and could get a lot of money on his next contract. Gauthier didn't see it that way at all. Almost everyone (including fanboys in this site) overrated Halak. One particularly knowledgeable outsider who agreed with the decision to keep Price was Scotty Bowman. As usual, he knew more than the howler monkeys in the trees. So all the Habs got for Halak was a third line forward? In retrospect, all the Blues got for Eller was an overpaid backup goaltender. The money the Habs saved was significant.

This.

That's also why Gomez is still around. MONEY.

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Old
12-25-2011, 11:53 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
Mcguire changes his mind way too often. He went from hating the Price pick to being a Price fanboy to bashing the Halak deal back to being a Price fanboy...
He went from denigrating Guy Boucher over the Tampa-Philly fiasco(wich he was commentating live) to then saying Boucher was in the right the next day on the NHL Network.

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12-25-2011, 12:00 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
The ****ing guy is nearing 70 years old and hasn't been a GM in this league for 15+ years.

The game has changed a LOT since then.

That would be a ****ing disaster. We may as well bring Jacques Demers back as head coach too.
I'm thinking Serge would not come in as a full-time GM. More like an adviser or President.

What would worry me though is that he said not too long ago that if he would have been in charge, his GM would have been Vincent Damphouse. And that guy would come from a long line of wusses in power after Peanut, André S, Gauthier and to a certain extant Bob(for him it was more like he couldn't keep up with the sharks in this league).

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12-25-2011, 12:08 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I'm pretty sure Gauthier was in contact with many teams about Halak. Halak's agent demanded that Price be traded as a condition of Halak's re-signing. The agent thought Halak had Gauthier over a barrel and could get a lot of money on his next contract. Gauthier didn't see it that way at all. Almost everyone (including fanboys in this site) overrated Halak. One particularly knowledgeable outsider who agreed with the decision to keep Price was Scotty Bowman. As usual, he knew more than the howler monkeys in the trees. So all the Habs got for Halak was a third line forward? In retrospect, all the Blues got for Eller was an overpaid backup goaltender. The money the Habs saved was significant.
Was Halak's value at the time worth a 3rd line 20pt forward? I don't think so.

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12-25-2011, 12:08 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Roy33Clutch View Post
My point was that the argument that Gainey needed help from others is not valid in the context of the Rivet trade. He got Timmins a 1st rounder, and Timmins took the ball and ran with it, drafting Pacioretty.

As for Detroit, or any team, for that matter, are a successful organization because of a strong management group. Holland is the leader, sure, but his great scouts (for example) are "relied" upon by him to be successful. I guess what I'm getting at is every GM, successful or not, does not do their job by themsevles, so the knock against Gainey needing help to succeed isn't fair.
That's what i've been saying I wouldn't even mind Roy taking both the GM and coaching job. If he's well surrounded, that won't be an issue. Get Bowman and Lemaire and Brisson on help with Roy for the management position. Lemaire was always the brain behind management in the Habs solid years between 86 and 93 and Serge Savard seemed lost after Lemaire left for New Jersey. And get Roy Benoit Groulx to assist him for coaching, along with Larry Robinson.

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12-25-2011, 12:10 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Was Halak's value at the time worth a 3rd line 20pt forward? I don't think so.
You forget to mention he's 21 with huge potential.

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12-25-2011, 12:16 PM
  #371
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Please no Gainey back, we had enough of him. Even I am not a huge fan I would rather have McGuire than him.
No Gainey, no Gauthier they have been HORRIBLE!!!!

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12-25-2011, 12:17 PM
  #372
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You forget to mention he's 21 with huge potential.
Halak had potential as well. He was a 24 year old goalie that carried his team into the playoffs and through to the ECF.

Eller was sold to us as a guy who could play NOW and contribute NOW. 1 1/2 years later we're still waiting.

Frankly I think Gauthier made the right choice but again, I think he misjudged Eller's capabilities.

LOL @ huge potential. His ceilling is 2nd line center. But his lack of finish does not scream huge potential, does it?

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12-25-2011, 12:19 PM
  #373
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in the spirit of the season - this guy should coach the habs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZS7s...ature=youtu.be


he gets the identity issue

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Old
12-25-2011, 12:21 PM
  #374
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Was Halak's value at the time worth a 3rd line 20pt forward? I don't think so.
Well if Eller is only a 20pt 3rd liner then yes a 3.75M cap hit backup goalie with a .903sv% on one of the best teams in the NHL is fair.

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12-25-2011, 12:24 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Halak had potential as well. He was a 24 year old goalie that carried his team into the playoffs and through to the ECF.

Eller was sold to us as a guy who could play NOW and contribute NOW. 1 1/2 years later we're still waiting.

Frankly I think Gauthier made the right choice but again, I think he misjudged Eller's capabilities.

LOL @ huge potential. His ceilling is 2nd line center. But his lack of finish does not scream huge potential, does it?
Eller gets no PP time and rarely plays with very offensive players. I'm sure he will do much better once he gains confidence. I see him becoming a premier two way center.

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