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We've only won 4 of the 14 games since Myers has been out.

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Old
12-22-2011, 10:00 PM
  #1
joshjull
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We've only won 4 of the 14 games since Myers has been out.

We've only won 4 of the 14 games since Myers has been out (4-7-3). Only 11 of a possible 28pts earned (.392).

He had his struggles and we were hardly lighting the world on fire with him playing (11-8). But we are much better team with him in the lineup, even when he isn't at his best.

With him in the lineup we hadn't lost more than two games in a row. We even had a 3 game winning streak and a 4 game winning streak with him in the lineup.

Getting him back will go a long way towards righting the ship.

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12-22-2011, 10:06 PM
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We absolutely can't pin our hopes on him getting back into the lineup and immediately being effective though, cause I don't think it's that kind of injury. At least he'll be conditioned, but I'm very worried about his puckhandling ability.

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12-22-2011, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
We've only won 4 of the 14 games since Myers has been out (4-7-3). Only 11 of a possible 28pts earned (.392).

He had his struggles and we were hardly lighting the world on fire with him playing (11-8). But we are much better team with him in the lineup, even when he isn't at his best.

With him in the lineup we hadn't lost more than two games in a row. We even had a 3 game winning streak and a 4 game winning streak with him in the lineup.

Getting him back will go a long way towards righting the ship.
I agree. Everyone just wants to keep saying the cliche " Injuries are not an excuse", but sometimes not having key guys in the line up can directly result in losses.

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12-22-2011, 10:19 PM
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It's definitely a key to their play I believe. But I also don't believe that he's the difference for this club as it's currently constructed between winning a cup or missing the playoffs. He's a very good player, with the potential to be a major superstar, but not quite yet, and the team around him is not good enough to contend with Boston, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh in the East.

That said, yes, I miss him, and hope he comes back and gives this team some umph in their game (basically how he played after the benhing, physical and aggressive).

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12-22-2011, 10:22 PM
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joshjull
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Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
It's definitely a key to their play I believe. But I also don't believe that he's the difference for this club as it's currently constructed between winning a cup or missing the playoffs. He's a very good player, with the potential to be a major superstar, but not quite yet, and the team around him is not good enough to contend with Boston, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh in the East.

That said, yes, I miss him, and hope he comes back and gives this team some umph in their game (basically how he played after the benhing, physical and aggressive).
Huh?

How are the only options for this season winning the Cup or missing the playoffs? There are few options in between those two extremes.


I'm talking about righting the ship, as in getting the season back on track from where it is now. Where did I say a thing about winning the Cup this year?


Last edited by joshjull: 12-22-2011 at 10:28 PM.
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Old
12-22-2011, 10:30 PM
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I think it's a bit misleading. Myers' injury REALLY started the injury train. Ever since Myers went down, the Sabres have been steadily losing more and more players due to injury.

Myers is important, but I think it's more timing than anything else. No team can expect to win at a .500 clip being regularly down 5-8 NHL-level skaters.


EDIT: And I certainly don't think that Myers' return will automatically bring the Sabres back to respectability record-wise. Only getting more healthy will do that.

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12-22-2011, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
I think it's a bit misleading. Myers' injury REALLY started the injury train. Ever since Myers went down, the Sabres have been steadily losing more and more players due to injury.

Myers is important, but I think it's more timing than anything else. No team can expect to win at a .500 clip being regularly down 5-8 NHL-level skaters.
How so? Hecht started the year out then Ennis went down not long after and has missed most of the season. Thats two top 6 forwards on this team. We've been dealing with injuries all season long. There really isn't another impactful player thats gone down besides those two other than Miller (and now Vanek).

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EDIT: And I certainly don't think that Myers' return will automatically bring the Sabres back to respectability record-wise. Only getting more healthy will do that.
Myers is one of the 3 or 4 best players on this team. How soon we forget. He will not singlehandedly carry us into the top 4 in the conference. But he will turn us in that direction.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-22-2011 at 10:43 PM.
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Old
12-22-2011, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
How so? Hecht started the year out then Ennis went down not long after and has missed most of the season. Thats two top 6 forwards on this team. We've been dealing with injuries all season long. There really isn't another impactful player thats gone down besides those two other than Miller (and now Vanek).
Yeah, it's two top 6 forwards -- but we had Boyes and Leino ready to step in and take over their roles. So really, the Sabres were plugging bottom 6 roles. And Tropp and Ellis are fine in those roles. So while we may have been short 2 top 6ers....we weren't in dire straits. A team should still be able to win consistently with Boyes/Leino as top 6ers over Hecht/Ennis.

I'm not saying Myers isn't good. He's VERY good. But I think you're giving him a bit too much credit for the Sabres poor play lately. I think it's FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR more related to being down as many skaters as we are than it is losing one (albeit very good) defenseman.

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Myers is one of the 3 or 4 best players on this team. How soon we forget. He will not singlehandedly carry us back to the top 4 in the conference. But he will turn us in that direction.
Of course he'll turn us back in that direction. But, in order to get there, we need more of the skaters --- particularly those capable of secondary scoring (Ennis, Leino, Boyes, Hecht) healthy.

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12-22-2011, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post

I'm not saying Myers isn't good. He's VERY good. But I think you're giving him a bit too much credit for the Sabres poor play lately. I think it's FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR more related to being down as many skaters as we are than it is losing one (albeit very good) defenseman.
This.

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Old
12-22-2011, 11:07 PM
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joshjull
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Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
Yeah, it's two top 6 forwards -- but we had Boyes and Leino ready to step in and take over their roles. So really, the Sabres were plugging bottom 6 roles. And Tropp and Ellis are fine in those roles. So while we may have been short 2 top 6ers....we weren't in dire straits. A team should still be able to win consistently with Boyes/Leino as top 6ers over Hecht/Ennis.

I'm not saying Myers isn't good. He's VERY good. But I think you're giving him a bit too much credit for the Sabres poor play lately. I think it's FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR more related to being down as many skaters as we are than it is losing one (albeit very good) defenseman.

Boyes and Leino? They would have to actually produce offense to be considered a loss of secondary scoring. Kassian has 6pts in 12gms which is as good or better than both of them. Adam has been producing as well. we have not missed the "offense" of those two at all.

The secondary scoring we are missing is what we're not getting from Roy and Stafford. They are not producing this year like they were expected to do. They haven't been out injured either.

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Of course he'll turn us back in that direction. But, in order to get there, we need more of the skaters --- particularly those capable of secondary scoring (Ennis, Leino, Boyes, Hecht) healthy
No we need to play better defensively and we need Miller to play better in goal . The best way to help that along is to play the more defensive style we've already started using a few weeks ago better than we currently are. The idea is to create offense using a counter attack with the dmen joining the attack as the second waive or even initiating the attack off the rush. That will be best accomplished with Myers in the lineup since he is our best dman at doing that. We've been setting up to play that way in recent weeks with a 1-2-2. But we need a horse like Myers back there to help jump start things.



EDIT: I'm saying Myers can get us back on the winning path before we get back all of our reinforcements.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-22-2011 at 11:18 PM.
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Old
12-22-2011, 11:20 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
EDIT: I'm saying Myers can get us back on the winning path before we get back all of our reinforcements.
And I'm saying you're giving him far too much credit and putting far too high expectations on him.

Agree to disagree I guess.

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12-22-2011, 11:34 PM
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Just like we have only won 4 out of our last 15 games....does this team have the potential to win 11 out of our next 15 games? This slump is getting worrisome.

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12-22-2011, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Huh?

How are the only options for this season winning the Cup or missing the playoffs? There are few options in between those two extremes.


I'm talking about righting the ship, as in getting the season back on track from where it is now. Where did I say a thing about winning the Cup this year?
I'm just saying that Myers may be the difference between the Sabres making or missing the playoffs. But him coming back into the lineup doesn't make them a true contender IMO. Even with Myers, the inconsistency of our forwards will eventually be their downfall, no matter how good Myers or Miller, or the defensemen play. The forwards are far too inconsistent, especially during crunch time.

I wasn't disagreeing with you in that he helps a lot, I was just saying that while he helps, his return, and improvement based on his return, does not in my opinion mean that this team will not need to make moves in order to become a true Cup contender.

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12-23-2011, 12:01 AM
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joshjull
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Originally Posted by Zman5778 View Post
And I'm saying you're giving him far too much credit and putting far too high expectations on him.

Agree to disagree I guess.
The problem is you're not dealing with reality. You're basing your assertions about Boyes, Leino, Hecht and Ennis on your expectations of them not their actual play.


In the 19 games Myers played in

Boyes ---> 19gms 2g 6a 8pts
Leino ----> 19gms 2g 3a 5pts
Ennis ----> 7gms 0pts
Hecht didn't play in any of the 19 games.

Those 4 had little to no impact on the teams success in those games. So arguing that we are losing now because they're not in the lineup doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The funny thing is with Myers out we had at least two of Leino, Hecht or Ennis for 9 of those 14gms (2-4-3 in those 9gms). We had all 3 of them for 3 games (1-1-1 in those 3gms).

Their stats with Myers out of the lineup

Hecht ---> 8gms 3g 0a 3pts. (compared to not even playing with Myers)
Ennis ---> 8gms 3g 2a 5pts (compared to zero points in 7gms with Myers)
Leino ---> 9gms 1g 4a 5pts (compared to 5pts in 19gms with Myers)

Looks like we got the better play from those guys when Myers was out and yet we were still were losing.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-23-2011 at 12:18 AM.
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12-23-2011, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Getting him back will go a long way towards righting the ship.
Well, judging from the recent reports and his own words last week, the Sabres could get both Myers and Boyes back next week. Gerbe's skating so hopefully he's not far off.

The big x-factor with Myers is if the time off will result in him taking several weeks to get back to the form he showed in the 2 games before getting injured.

Of course, if their record was terrible with Myers out, I'd hate to imagine the situation if Vanek's injury turns out to be anything serious or long-term.....

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12-23-2011, 12:28 AM
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Perhaps Independent Health was on to something with this whole "Healthy Changes Everything" campaign.

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12-23-2011, 01:36 AM
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As I said in the GBU, we can't score goals. While we will certainly be better with Myers back in, we still aren't solving the main issue of not scoring enough to be competitive.

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12-23-2011, 02:01 AM
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any update on when is getting better?

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12-23-2011, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
The problem is you're not dealing with reality. You're basing your assertions about Boyes, Leino, Hecht and Ennis on your expectations of them not their actual play.


In the 19 games Myers played in

Boyes ---> 19gms 2g 6a 8pts
Leino ----> 19gms 2g 3a 5pts
Ennis ----> 7gms 0pts
Hecht didn't play in any of the 19 games.

Those 4 had little to no impact on the teams success in those games. So arguing that we are losing now because they're not in the lineup doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The funny thing is with Myers out we had at least two of Leino, Hecht or Ennis for 9 of those 14gms (2-4-3 in those 9gms). We had all 3 of them for 3 games (1-1-1 in those 3gms).

Their stats with Myers out of the lineup

Hecht ---> 8gms 3g 0a 3pts. (compared to not even playing with Myers)
Ennis ---> 8gms 3g 2a 5pts (compared to zero points in 7gms with Myers)
Leino ---> 9gms 1g 4a 5pts (compared to 5pts in 19gms with Myers)

Looks like we got the better play from those guys when Myers was out and yet we were still were losing.
Myers must be a cancer in the locker room. We need to get him off our team.

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12-23-2011, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
The problem is you're not dealing with reality. You're basing your assertions about Boyes, Leino, Hecht and Ennis on your expectations of them not their actual play.


In the 19 games Myers played in

Boyes ---> 19gms 2g 6a 8pts
Leino ----> 19gms 2g 3a 5pts
Ennis ----> 7gms 0pts
Hecht didn't play in any of the 19 games.

Those 4 had little to no impact on the teams success in those games. So arguing that we are losing now because they're not in the lineup doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The funny thing is with Myers out we had at least two of Leino, Hecht or Ennis for 9 of those 14gms (2-4-3 in those 9gms). We had all 3 of them for 3 games (1-1-1 in those 3gms).

Their stats with Myers out of the lineup

Hecht ---> 8gms 3g 0a 3pts. (compared to not even playing with Myers)
Ennis ---> 8gms 3g 2a 5pts (compared to zero points in 7gms with Myers)
Leino ---> 9gms 1g 4a 5pts (compared to 5pts in 19gms with Myers)

Looks like we got the better play from those guys when Myers was out and yet we were still were losing.
Tyler Myers ---> 19gms 2g 4a 6pts (both goals were in the same game)

He truly has been the difference maker for this team.

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Old
12-23-2011, 07:28 AM
  #21
Dixon Ward
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we've only won 16 of 34 games with derek roy in the line up this season.

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12-23-2011, 07:37 AM
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we've only won 16 of 34 games with derek roy in the line up this season.
Ha. I'll play along.

We've only won 16 of 34 games with Lindy Ruff as our Head Coach

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12-23-2011, 08:12 AM
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Ha. I'll play along.

We've only won 16 of 34 games with Lindy Ruff as our Head Coach
Untouchable.

Teams would line up to have him as coach.

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12-23-2011, 08:27 AM
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It's an interesting stat. You wouldn't think he'd be THAT important to the team, but maybe he is? With Myers playing you'd have to think they at least win a few more games in that stretch, maybe even have a winning record. Obviously I don't think he's completely responsible for the team being awful, but that stat shows he's clearly a big factor.

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12-23-2011, 08:44 AM
  #25
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Healthy changes everything.

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