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NDAA, SOPA, and America

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Old
12-23-2011, 06:44 PM
  #1
agent2421
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NDAA, SOPA, and America

Hey everyone, I'm not sure if a topic like this is allowed or not but I thought it was really interesting. The funny thing is, about 60-70% of people haven't even heard of it. So i wanted to hear your thoughts about the National Defence Authorization Act and the Stop Online Piracy Act... Some background information:


1. NDAA:

This bill has already been passed and pretty much America is now declared as a battlezone. Military/police can detain, arrest and even assassinate people WITHOUT trial or jury. This is pretty big news, yet it's not being aired anywhere really by the media. The US has lost the rights on the 10 amendments, especially how innocent until prove and guilty means nothing anymore since they can throw you in prison indefinitely without any explanation.

Some other things I've heard which are just parts of the bill... and I don't have extensive knowledge but from what I heard... If you have missing fingers you can be deemed as a terrorist. If you have more than 7 days worth of food you can be deemed a terrorist. If you have more than a few guns or have weapons, you guessed it, you can be a terrorist.

-- Obviously i don't think anything is happening now, but it is written in writing and can be used if needed. Some of this stuff is shocking. All in the word of "homeland security" they are slowly taking away rights from the Constitution for American citizens. Even protesting can be considered as a threat against the government and you could be deemed as a low life terrorist. Crazy world we live in when that happens.

2. SOPA


The Stop Online Privacy Act is to stop piracy... or so the bill says. However, piracy won't stop because a lot of torrent sites are not even in the US and won't apply, so America wiil only be cutting themselves from this piracy. What the bill really does is allow the government to censor the internet (like China, Syeria and Iran already does)... Youtube, Google, Facebook, I believe Ebay are all fighting against the Bill because they could close down. The bill would mean it would be illegal to post a clip and upload it online because it would be considered copyright. Practically freedom of speech will be taken away and you will have an internet of what the government wants you to see....


This is all really extreme stuff... in worst case scenarios. Will it happen? Who knows. The NDAA has already been passed I believe. The 2nd one Sopa it was heavily in favor in Congress but they are undergoing a "winter recess" until sometime in January.


So what are your thoughts? It's happening right now and no one is talking about it... half of us don't even know it's going on. You won't hear about this in the news much. There's been protesting going on at the whitehouse for the past 4-5 days but it's not like they air any of it...

Watch some videos on youtube, see what the 2 bills are about and give me your opinions.





So this is some big stuff going on in the world.. yet it's not being discussed that much. Whether or not people know or people don't care depends... Let's hear what some Sen fans think about this. Give some views and what you think about these 2 bills.


*Edit: the Last guy is just good research right there.

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12-23-2011, 06:52 PM
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I can see both sides of this on one had you have the avg joe who wants to be able to access everything on the net with out any rules then on the other side you have companys etc that want to protect there product and if you don't do anything to atleast limit piracy i just don't see how some companys could last.

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12-23-2011, 06:55 PM
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Piracy has to stop, in all seriousness.

^^WJHL said it best.

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12-23-2011, 07:00 PM
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Remember though that SOPA will not only affect piracy.. in fact it will be a marginal effect. Here's a good article to read about it.

SOPA will not stop piracy, only the flow of information

Imagine surfing the internet without being able to watch videos on YouTube, share with your friends on Facebook, look at pictures of your best friend’s new baby on Flickr or read news headlines from reddit. All because a supercharged copyright law forces these sites to give government and corporate super-users direct access to a delete button. Luckily this is not reality, though it could be if the Congress passes H.R. 3261 the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA).

Essentially, SOPA would claim the federal government “owns” the internet and will have the ability shut-down any website that commits a copyright infringement, whether willfully or not. The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) explains, that SOPA “would allow the Attorney General to cut off sites from the Internet, essentially ‘blacklisting’ companies from doing business on the web. Under section 102, the Attorney General can seek a court order that would force search engines, DNS providers, servers, payment processors, and advertisers to stop doing business with allegedly infringing websites.” EFF adds, “at a minimum, this means that any service that hosts user generated content is going to be under enormous pressure to actively monitor and filter that content.“ And that, “what happened to Wikileaks via voluntary censorship will now be systematized and streamlined – as long as someone, somewhere, thinks they’ve got an IP right that’s being harmed.“

In addition to the possibility of your favorite sites being taken down, you could wind up in jail for 5 years, if you inadvertently violate the law, while not willfully or knowingly violating the Copyright Act.

The ACLU adds, “SOPA also fails to assure that those whose material will be blocked, whether infringing or non-infringing material, receive adequate notice before the content is blocked.”

Karl Fogel of QuestionCopyright writes, “Even if one thinks that illegal copying is an infection that has to be cured (which we emphatically don’t agree with), SOPA’s solution is analogous to curing it by removing the patient’s circulatory system!”

Even though EFF reports that Rep. Darrell Issa said that he doesn’t “believe the bill has any chance on the House floor,” that does not mean the bill is dead. It could still be repackaged and added to an unrelated bill (that is sure to pass) down the road.


----

Btw had Sopa been passed, it would almost be illegal to post that article. It would be illegal for 3rd party sites to post sport scores... it will be illegal to have streams for sport sites. It would be illegal to even have background music in some cases for people who start to edit movies and try to be creative....

Also any opinions on the NDAA bill? That's the one that's even worse in most cases.


If SOPA does get passed, small internet businesses esentially have no chance. All they need is for some form of corporation to say, "yeah you know what... I don't know, i think that could be illegal or you have material that shouldn't be allowed" and bye bye to your website. The creators of Reddit have actually said that they would not survive if such a bill was passed. They never would have been able to make the site, etc.

And to say this bill has no chance of passing... who knows. The NDAA has passed and now people can be detained and tortured without Trial... That seems like an even bigger law to me. Americans can be transported to foreign prisons now and they don't need "proof" to convict you for a crime.

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12-23-2011, 07:08 PM
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I think if its a matter of people watching home videos thats is one thing and i would be aginst limiting that but when your talking about movies/tv series and games etc i am sorry for those things i fully support copyright laws.

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12-23-2011, 07:27 PM
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The limits on privacy and general rights happening in the states is pretty scary. The copyright laws are an interesting topic. Freedom of information is important, as is intellectual property.

The hoarding and absolute control over the means of moving information around is the crux of the problem. Claiming piracy as the target and further clamping down on internet freedom, monopolization, loss of privacy, and increasing surveillance. These are consequences from these bills I find disconcerting.

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12-23-2011, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dionysus View Post
The limits on privacy and general rights happening in the states is pretty scary. The copyright laws are an interesting topic. Freedom of information is important, as is intellectual property.

The hoarding and absolute control over the means of moving information around is the crux of the problem. Claiming piracy as the target and further clamping down on internet freedom, monopolization, loss of privacy, and increasing surveillance. These are consequences from these bills I find disconcerting.
I think some assume internet freedom means you should be able to download every thing you want be it movies/tv series etc with out having to pay for it.

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12-23-2011, 07:58 PM
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I think some assume internet freedom means you should be able to download every thing you want be it movies/tv series etc with out having to pay for it.
I think you don't bother to read about stuff before 'seeing both sides of the issue' - or not knowing what you're talking about and saying companies can justifiably look to **** everybody much, much harder than the pirates have ****ed them.

And don't even start with me, I've spent thousands upon thousands of dollars purchasing all my online content legally.

And my reward? A US law that could **** over a Canadian living in Canada. And that Canadian or American may have never pirated in their life but hey - he or she is guilty because a multi-billion dollar company says they are!

When was the last time a multi-billion dollar company got it wrong? OH THAT'S RIGHT, American banks foreclosed on people who were not suppose to be foreclosed on.

Edit: there's protecting copyright and then there's basically giving companies the ability to do whatever the **** they want with people with almost no ability for a person to challenge them fairly.


Last edited by Loose Sens: 12-23-2011 at 08:05 PM.
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12-23-2011, 08:38 PM
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1984.

Brave New World.

Did you only just notice?

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12-23-2011, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
Agent
I think if its a matter of people watching home videos thats is one thing and i would be aginst limiting that but when your talking about movies/tv series and games etc i am sorry for those things i fully support copyright laws.
Totally agree with you here.

Unfortunately, SOPA goes way overboard in almost every way. It's like trying to kill a housefly with 10 tons of dynamite.

SOPA will pretty much completely redesign how we use the internet, and not in a good way.

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12-23-2011, 09:32 PM
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the tribute
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LOL at the people thinking this is going to stop piracy. It's only going to make it worse, It's just like DRM, it doesn't work.

Piracy isn't what they are trying to stop here, the whole hidden agenda is to have complete control of what's posted.

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12-23-2011, 09:38 PM
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LOL at the people thinking this is going to stop piracy. It's only going to make it worse, It's just like DRM, it doesn't work.

Piracy isn't what they are trying to stop here, the whole hidden agenda is to have complete control of what's posted.



Yep.

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Old
12-23-2011, 10:31 PM
  #13
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LOL at the people thinking this is going to stop piracy. It's only going to make it worse, It's just like DRM, it doesn't work.

Piracy isn't what they are trying to stop here, the whole hidden agenda is to have complete control of what's posted.
Bingo... and it's not surprise these 2 bills were almost passed together. With NDAA meaning no more protesting for your rights or freedom... people will be scared to protest for fear of going to jail without jury, etc... Those who speak there mind can be thrown into jail for however long and it's up to the government. NDAA had to be passed because you better believe that people would be rioting and stuff if the internet basically shut down. Now it'll be much harder since you can be deemed as a terrorist for even suggesting unfair play and that your rights have been taken away and you need the internet, etc...

America needs to wake up and look at what's happening. If SOPA gets passed as well I'd be very worried. Not only have they taken your rights away and broken the constitution but now they take the internet and basically they take the world away from you and reality. The only news you will be seeing on the internet is government sactioned... What they want you to see.

SOPA is not about piracy at all, it would only marginally affect piracy. But it's for control and for a bill like this to pass in our time is just downright scary. Same as NDAA which takes away the whole constitution basically in the name of "homeland security" ...

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12-23-2011, 10:51 PM
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If the Canadian Netflix was as good as American Netflix, and if we had access to HULU, and if we weren't blocked from every video site except for Youtube, I would never pirate.

That being said, I still have Netflix and use it whenever possible, and I still buy tons of DVDs, it just annoys me how limited Canada is.

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12-23-2011, 11:04 PM
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Bingo... and it's not surprise these 2 bills were almost passed together. With NDAA meaning no more protesting for your rights or freedom... people will be scared to protest for fear of going to jail without jury, etc... Those who speak there mind can be thrown into jail for however long and it's up to the government. NDAA had to be passed because you better believe that people would be rioting and stuff if the internet basically shut down. Now it'll be much harder since you can be deemed as a terrorist for even suggesting unfair play and that your rights have been taken away and you need the internet, etc...

America needs to wake up and look at what's happening. If SOPA gets passed as well I'd be very worried. Not only have they taken your rights away and broken the constitution but now they take the internet and basically they take the world away from you and reality. The only news you will be seeing on the internet is government sactioned... What they want you to see.

SOPA is not about piracy at all, it would only marginally affect piracy. But it's for control and for a bill like this to pass in our time is just downright scary. Same as NDAA which takes away the whole constitution basically in the name of "homeland security" ...
Agreed - Americans as a whole are frighteningly gullible with this BS "war on terror" and "homeland security"

Not surprising though.

What impact do you guys think these latest big brother bills will have on Canada?

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12-23-2011, 11:05 PM
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Alright so we talked a bit about SOPA and i want this to be a really open discussion of your views about both SOPA and NDAA. So let's discuss NDAA for a bit. Anyone agree with it or do you disagree?



This is discussion in the Senate about terrorists getting tortured

Yes.... Terrorists don't have rights but whose to say that you actually have a terrorist? The number of times the government has the wrong person... and now they can torture or assassinate them....

And right now people will be like... ok so what, there terrorists as long as it isn't American citizens... Whose to say American citizens won't be next getting tortured? Under NDAA American citizens who are "suspected" to be terrorists can be tortured and assassinated.... What if they "suspect" the wrong person.

Not to mention... since we're Canadians let's go a different route... Since America is technically declared as a "battlezone" now... they can come into Canada if they "suspect" you and bring you into the US for "questioning" for however long they want... Not totally sure about this but I believe they can still arrest you and not give you a trial even if your in Canada... Not sure how Canadian law would go here but in technicality they might be able to do that.

Just some things to think about...

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12-24-2011, 06:28 AM
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Incredibly, this is endemic of the problem created by the internet. Newspapers are dead b/c of online data, and with it died the journalist. These guys don't work for free and the internet doesn't pay. It means that there is just not enough truth in media and no way to check it for bias. I just heard about SOPA from a troll in the basement, I haven't heard about the NDAA. Welcome to the free world.

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12-24-2011, 07:12 AM
  #18
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Totally agree with you here.

Unfortunately, SOPA goes way overboard in almost every way. It's like trying to kill a housefly with 10 tons of dynamite.

SOPA will pretty much completely redesign how we use the internet, and not in a good way.
I don't agree with the bill as i do think it corsses the line my point is there are some who think they should have the right to download whay every they want.

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12-24-2011, 07:17 AM
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I don't agree with the bill as i do think it corsses the line my point is there are some who think they should have the right to download whay every they want.
Yeah, I agree completely.

Although I have to say, some people feel justified stealing things for odd reasons. My brother-in-law built a shed made entirely of stolen materials off of construction sites. He seems to think it's "OK" because it was just laying around. In the same vein, some people feel justified stealing media (music/movies/etc) because "it's just lying around".

Some people have a skewed moral base. That story is as old as history.

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12-24-2011, 07:17 AM
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I can see both sides of this on one had you have the avg joe who wants to be able to access everything on the net with out any rules then on the other side you have companys etc that want to protect there product and if you don't do anything to atleast limit piracy i just don't see how some companys could last.
I think you have this wrong.

SOPA is not company's wanting to protect their product.

SOPA is the United States declaring they own the internet.

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12-24-2011, 07:18 AM
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I think you have this wrong.

SOPA is not company's wanting to protect their product.

SOPA is the United States declaring they own the internet.
Yes, but the point is that they are doing it under the guise of protecting copyright. The two arguments are intertwined.

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12-24-2011, 07:22 AM
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Fascism for the civilized.

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12-24-2011, 07:32 AM
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Alright so we talked a bit about SOPA and i want this to be a really open discussion of your views about both SOPA and NDAA. So let's discuss NDAA for a bit. Anyone agree with it or do you disagree?



This is discussion in the Senate about terrorists getting tortured

Yes.... Terrorists don't have rights but whose to say that you actually have a terrorist? The number of times the government has the wrong person... and now they can torture or assassinate them....

And right now people will be like... ok so what, there terrorists as long as it isn't American citizens... Whose to say American citizens won't be next getting tortured? Under NDAA American citizens who are "suspected" to be terrorists can be tortured and assassinated.... What if they "suspect" the wrong person.

Not to mention... since we're Canadians let's go a different route... Since America is technically declared as a "battlezone" now... they can come into Canada if they "suspect" you and bring you into the US for "questioning" for however long they want... Not totally sure about this but I believe they can still arrest you and not give you a trial even if your in Canada... Not sure how Canadian law would go here but in technicality they might be able to do that.

Just some things to think about...
north american security and prosperity agreement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securit..._North_America

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12-24-2011, 09:20 AM
  #24
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Good to see the USA on a roll this year they already froze the assets of the three biggest online poker sites which froze the funds of all the players worldwide but you know they are protecting us? Now 2012 will be the year they decide they own the internet. I understand a need to cut down on piracy why don't networks just air their tv shows on the web and generate advertising revenues in the process there are smarter ways to work with the people instead of Marshall lawing everyone and claiming it's for their own good. People are smarter and much more educated these days it's unfortunate politics has stayed the same find somewhere you aren't making money but someone else is and take it over like pirates.

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12-24-2011, 09:43 AM
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Good to see the USA on a roll this year they already froze the assets of the three biggest online poker sites which froze the funds of all the players worldwide but you know they are protecting us? Now 2012 will be the year they decide they own the internet. I understand a need to cut down on piracy why don't networks just air their tv shows on the web and generate advertising revenues in the process there are smarter ways to work with the people instead of Marshall lawing everyone and claiming it's for their own good. People are smarter and much more educated these days it's unfortunate politics has stayed the same find somewhere you aren't making money but someone else is and take it over like pirates.
I think it could come down to is have internet companys just offer a umlimited package and have a deal with studios and say offer it at $500 a month but that would give you unlimited access to everything thats is the only way i can see it working for both sides.

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