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Old
12-24-2011, 12:51 PM
  #1
Superhero
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0 N American C drafted on 1st round since 1996

The reason the Sabres lack center depth & don't have a #1 center is that Darcy Regier chooses not to draft enough of them, especially in the 1st Round.

They have drafted only 3 pure centers in the 1st round since 1996 each were Euro's & each were dissapointments (Zagrapan,Novotny,Kryukov).

They also drafted Ennis in the 1st round who is listed as a Center but plays wing.

Darcy has not drafted any North American pure Centers in the 1st round since 1996.

Darcy says that it is hard to get #1 centers, well maybe if he attempted to draft more with top picks he would have one.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005054.html


Last edited by Superhero: 12-24-2011 at 12:57 PM.
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12-24-2011, 01:58 PM
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Dreakon
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Sounds like a pretty solid point to me. The guy seems to love drafting d-men early.

As weak as our D looks at times... with Ehrhoff and Myers signed long term, Regehr being solid as a rock, Sekera playing well in certain pairings and others like Gragnani, Weber, McNabb, Pysyk, Gauthier-Leduc, Schiestel and Brennan all battling for spots over the next few years... I don't see any need to draft D early for a while.

The wingers... I think we have more than enough at an NHL level. So much we have wingers playing center, wingers playing wingers, wingers on D and wingers in net. I'm not sure how far that depth goes into Rochester but between later draft picks, guys like Armia eventually making their way to Ra-cha-cha and plugging in holes via trade, gotta think we'll eventually get a few guys that can make it to the NHL and replace anyone we lose over the next few years.

Draft centers, draft early and plenty of them I say, if even only one of them sticks it's better than we have now. Is this years draft looking deep?

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12-24-2011, 03:27 PM
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jfb392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakon View Post
Draft centers, draft early and plenty of them I say, if even only one of them sticks it's better than we have now. Is this years draft looking deep?
No, it's not looking very deep at center.
The strength is on defense, of course, which is bad news for us (we have no need for another bluechip defenseman and it will likely lower the value of our prospects as far as trades go).

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Old
12-24-2011, 04:35 PM
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Havok89
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Darcy could always trade a few of Brennan, Weber, Gragnani, Pysyk, JGL, and Shiestel for center prospects of similiar potential from teams who need more defensive depth.

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12-25-2011, 01:36 PM
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sabregoat
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Darcy could always trade a few of Brennan, Weber, Gragnani, Pysyk, JGL, and Shiestel for center prospects of similiar potential from teams who need more defensive depth.
When was the last time Darcy traded prospects for prospects? This would be the way to go if there were no centers worth their pick.

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12-25-2011, 05:33 PM
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North American trained or European trained, they've only turned out one top 6 center taken in the first two rounds since Regier took over. His staff has had interest in guys but haven't taken them (Sheahan, Jarnkrok) or guys they've made offers to (Miele, Da Costa, Zolnierczyk) and not been able to sign. They first rounders they've taken for years have basically flopped -- Primeau and Rasmussen did too, going back far enough. The last "good" first rounder was Turgeon... 24 years ago.

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Old
12-25-2011, 05:52 PM
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Myllz
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The North American part of it doesn't mean anything to me. Barely drafting any centers in the first round during his entire career here is troubling, though.

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Old
12-25-2011, 10:24 PM
  #8
SabreDr
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Drafting defensemen is safe and comfortable. Drafting centers can be risky, but without risk you get no reward. Other teams take the chance on centers, the Sabres draft the safe and secure Pysyks. That is Darcy Regier summed up in three sentences.

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12-26-2011, 12:04 AM
  #9
KevinFG
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Never really looked closely at this, as I've always been a "draft the best talent available" kind of guy, which admittedly is a baseball attitude.

That said, if we don't draft centers high, and don't have any in the pipeline, I guess we really have no one but ourselves to blame?

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Old
12-26-2011, 02:09 AM
  #10
buffalowing88
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Drafting NA centers has very little to do with our problem. It involves having a high enough pick to draft an immediate impact center. The last time we came across a sure bet like that was probably in 2003 but we grabbed Vanek instead, and I am happy with that.

Luke Adam was a good pick and I don't mind him but he will never be a number 1 center. We just simply need to make a trade and stop second guessing this. Give off the many defensive prospects we have and a core roster player to get the guy. If we don't do it, we will be first round fodder at best.

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Old
12-26-2011, 03:27 AM
  #11
Corto
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Why North American?

Malkin, Datsyuk, Backstrom, etc., all elite centers, all European.

Problem is they didn't draft ANY top-notch centers in the recent past.

...

Hell, outside of Vanek and now (hopefully) Myers, they haven't drafted any real "elite" players in the 1st rounds going back nearly 15 years.

They've had success in the later rounds, stacking up on "2nd and 3rd line" forwards, and #3-#6 defensemen...
But elite players? Not so much.

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Old
12-26-2011, 08:09 AM
  #12
Jame
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Drafting Misses in the first 3 rounds that will make you cry
(ps this is just for fun, and out of boredom)

The Regier/Ruff era:

1998
Who they Took vs Who they Missed:
1st #19 Dmitri Kalinin VS 1st #20 Robyn Regehr
2nd #34 Andrew Peters VS 2nd #44 Mike Fisher
2nd #47 Norman Milley VS 3rd #64 Brad Richards
3rd #77 Mike Pandolfo VS 3rd #82 Brian Gionta
Honorable Mention : Ales Kotalik over Pavel Datsyuk in the 6th

1999
1st #20 Barret Heisten over 1st #24 Martin Havlat
2nd #35 Milan Bartovic over 2nd #44 Jordan Leopold
wow, the 1999 draft is so awful as a class

2000
1st #15 Artem Kriukov over #21 Anton Volchenkov
2nd #48 Gerard Dicaire over #55 Antoine Vermette

2001
1st #22 Jiri Novotny over #23 Tim Gleason
Good 2nd round!

2002
1st #20 Dan Paille over #24 Alexander Steen
3rd #76 Michael Tessier over #95 Valterri Filpulla

2003
honorable mention: #202 Nathan Paetsch over #205 Joe Pavelski

2004
1st #13 Drew Stafford over 1st #20 Travis Zajac
2nd #43 Mike Funk over 2nd #63 David Krejci

2005
1st #13 Marek Zagrapan over Martin Hanzal, TJ Oshie, Paul Stastny
2nd #48 Philip Gogulla over #62 Kris Letang
3rd #87 Marc Andre Gragnani AND #96 Chris Butler over #105 Keith Yandle and #108 Niklas Hjalmarsson
honorable mention : Andrew Orpik over Patric Hornqvist in late 7th

2006
1st #24 Dennis Persson over #25 Patrick Berglund
2nd #46 Jhonas Enroth over #50 Milan Lucic

2007
2nd #31 TJ Brennan over #43 PK Subban

2008
3rd #81 Corey Fienhage over #82 Adam Henrique
honorable mention #101 Justin Jokinen AND #104 Jordon Southorn OVER #123 Andrei Loktionov

2009
honorable mention #134 Mark Adams over #149 Marcus Kruger

2010.... oh how i hated this draft.... so much. maybe it turns out to be the right picks, too soon to tell...
1st #23 Mark Pysyk over #29 Emerson Etem
3rd #83 Matt Mackenzie over #86 Stanislav Galiev
honorable mention #98 Steven Shipley over #111 Teemu Pulkinen

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Old
12-26-2011, 08:13 AM
  #13
Afino
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Penguins 2005:

#1 Sidney Crosby OVER #2 Bobby Ryan

That Crosby guy sucks and his career may be over! I'll take Bobby Ryan right now!!

(I'm completely joking, btw, don't worry Jamers. I know you said you did it for fun.)


My point is that you can do that for EVERY team with revisionist history with the way the NHL draft is. There have been a few picks by DR that have flat been awful. Like Persson.

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Old
12-26-2011, 09:48 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigZackKassian View Post
My point is that you can do that for EVERY team with revisionist history with the way the NHL draft is. There have been a few picks by DR that have flat been awful. Like Persson.
I agree.

Now if you were saying that they should have taken Player X over Player Y at the time of the draft, then you have something to complain about.

And most people were OK with the Zagrapan pick as he was the only 1st round rated center left on the board when they picked.

If they would have taken say Paul Stastny there, people would have ripped the pick at the time.

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12-26-2011, 12:28 PM
  #15
OcAirlines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Drafting Misses in the first 3 rounds that will make you cry
(ps this is just for fun, and out of boredom)

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Old
12-26-2011, 01:49 PM
  #16
joshjull
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They've needed to drafts centers that have top 6 potential as everyone has noted. They've done a decent job in the last few years with Adam, Sundher and Catenacci.


But the main reason they are in the center mess they are in now is horrible management of their roster post lockout. They came out of the lockout with amazing center depth; Briere, Drury, Connolly, Roy and Goose. Unfortunately, as we all know, the ownership at the time had policies in place leading to us losing our co- captains. Most teams target those types of players to lock up before they worry about the rest of their roster. But that didn't happen.

When you actually have good centers you do whatever you can to keep them. As we've seen they're very tough to replace.

So to respond to the OP......

No matter how we had been drafting, we had great center depth 5 years ago and let it slip away. That is the single biggest reason why we are in the situation we're in today.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-26-2011 at 02:04 PM.
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Old
12-26-2011, 02:36 PM
  #17
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
They've needed to drafts centers that have top 6 potential as everyone has noted. They've done a decent job in the last few years with Adam, Sundher and Catenacci.


But the main reason they are in the center mess they are in now is horrible management of their roster post lockout. They came out of the lockout with amazing center depth; Briere, Drury, Connolly, Roy and Goose. Unfortunately, as we all know, the ownership at the time had policies in place leading to us losing our co- captains. Most teams target those types of players to lock up before they worry about the rest of their roster. But that didn't happen.

When you actually have good centers you do whatever you can to keep them. As we've seen they're very tough to replace.

So to respond to the OP......

No matter how we had been drafting, we had great center depth 5 years ago and let it slip away. That is the single biggest reason why we are in the situation we're in today.
I think that excuse has expired

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Old
12-26-2011, 07:58 PM
  #18
joshjull
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I think that excuse has expired



What are are you talking about? Excuse for what?


When you let guys like Briere/Drury walk it creates two huge holes that are incredibly tough to fill. Hell the Ducks have yet to replace Andy McDonald. We haven't had a two way center like Drury or an offensive dynamo like Briere since they left.

By not having success drafting centers and letting guys leave they've gutted the center position with a two pronged attack. They've drafted some options in the last few drafts that seem to have some promise in Adam, Sundher and Catenacci. Time will tell if any of them work out.


Organization-wide center depth issues, as bad as ours, take time to correct in the real hockey world. As opposed to the fantasy one where its easy to just trade for and/or draft the centers you need. For someone that has ranted and raved about the importance of centers and how hard they are to get, I would think you would understand this. We've had to fill the top end and the bottom end of the organization.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-26-2011 at 08:06 PM.
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Old
12-26-2011, 08:47 PM
  #19
Jame
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
What are are you talking about? Excuse for what?
it was 5 years ago... it doesn't have an impact today. Drury is retired, not sure how signing him 5 years ago would have an impact on our depth today...

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Old
12-26-2011, 08:49 PM
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Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
What are are you talking about? Excuse for what?


When you let guys like Briere/Drury walk it creates two huge holes that are incredibly tough to fill. Hell the Ducks have yet to replace Andy McDonald. We haven't had a two way center like Drury or an offensive dynamo like Briere since they left.

By not having success drafting centers and letting guys leave they've gutted the center position with a two pronged attack. They've drafted some options in the last few drafts that seem to have some promise in Adam, Sundher and Catenacci. Time will tell if any of them work out.


Organization-wide center depth issues, as bad as ours, take time to correct in the real hockey world. As opposed to the fantasy one where its easy to just trade for and/or draft the centers you need. For someone that has ranted and raved about the importance of centers and how hard they are to get, I would think you would understand this. We've had to fill the top end and the bottom end of the organization.
Centers are important
We haven't drafted very well in this last 5 years
The players who left 5 years ago aren't relative to the lack of depth today...
You're better off siting Tim Connolly leaving as a free agent...

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Old
12-26-2011, 09:24 PM
  #21
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Wow...this thread just got incredibly depressing for me when I think of what the sabres could have in a vanek-briere-pominville top line if they'd kept danny

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Old
12-28-2011, 11:06 AM
  #22
Superhero
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The only 2nd round centers Darcy has drafted since 1996 are Derrick Roy & Luke Adam.

I guess with only 5 centers drafted in the 1st & 2 rounds since 1996 shows how much importance Darcy thinks of the position.

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