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Our Penalty Kill - Who to blame?

View Poll Results: Who is responsible for our horrible PK in the past 4 years?
Wilson 24 23.30%
Wilson AND the Assistant Coaches 40 38.83%
Goaltending 7 6.80%
Players/Face-off percentage 15 14.56%
Other (Please specify) 17 16.50%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-26-2011, 06:06 AM
  #26
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardbro View Post
With the recent re-signing of Wilson, I keep hearing that it's inexcusable that he hasn't improved the PK in 4 years.

...

I personally think blaming Wilson is ridiculous.

So my question to you is, who is the real blame for our piss poor PK?

My answer is obviously poor goaltending.
Burke.

He provides the talent and the coaches.

There can be no debate, Burke has failed in this area.

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Old
12-26-2011, 06:12 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Burke.

He provides the talent and the coaches.

There can be no debate, Burke has failed in this area.
Well that's all I need to hear. Pack it up folks, nothing else to see here.

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Old
12-26-2011, 08:05 AM
  #28
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This team will be too crappy to fight for a playoff position. Fire Cronin!

Well, they've been in the race for nearly half the season.

Why aren't they better?!?!?! Fire Cronin!

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Old
12-26-2011, 08:12 AM
  #29
ULF_55
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Originally Posted by Courage View Post

Well, they've been in the race for nearly half the season.
They are almost as good as Florida.

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Old
12-26-2011, 08:32 AM
  #30
daveleaf
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I just think there is a bunch of blame to go around the players that are on the ice. From inability to get the puck out of their own end when they have the puck to guys not winning battles. The rule where you get penalized for putting the puck out of play over the glass in your own zone really plays on players-I hate that rule! Just seems like a calamity of errors. Some teams just feast on them.....well, a lot of teams.

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Old
12-26-2011, 08:37 AM
  #31
MrMazola
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Actually, Giguere was excellent when the team was on the PK. Just look up his stats.

Otherwise, the team is ridiculously passive on the PK most of the time. And that has to go to coaching. Wilson is generally indifferent at best to a well played PK. Interestingly enough, the leafs have tried a more aggressive PK on rare occasions this year, and it has worked in the few games they have tried it. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, they quickly return to the passive PK that has cost them, probably, 3-4 wins this year.

I can only imagine that the coaches are too stubborn to admit that their PK system is a failure and prefer to see the team crap out again and again rather than utilize a system that isn't what they think should work.

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Old
12-26-2011, 08:40 AM
  #32
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The problem with our PK is we take to many bad penalties for starters,and we take to many penalties period. The speed of this team should for the most part see us getting more PP's than the other team. Discipline needs to be addressed in the context of (bad/lazy penalties).

However, it is such a fine line that it could correct itself for no apparent reason.(eg There are plenty of teams with more fire power on the power play that have less success than us.

I would like to see our players fight more,and be more rotten so to speak while short handed. It drives up the intensity,and could see the other team get testy,and maybe get in their heads a little. Nasty works on a PK imho.

The right mix is there,its just a matter of the players buying into it. They can stop screening our tenders anytime too.While there at it they could stop (chasing/puck watching together also).

There assignments leave me wondering what the hell they are doing when 3 of the 4 are caught behind the net or in a corner when a goal is scored. Watch for this for yourself!

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Old
12-26-2011, 08:54 AM
  #33
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I've been as big a supporter of RW as a person can be, without being a total fanboy. But this one is on the coaching staff, Wilson included.

Yes, this team has had really bad goaltending for years and that hasn't helped. But I watch the games, and even when Reimer/Gus are having great games, the Leaf's PK gives up way too many fantastic chances. I wish the Leaf's PP got those kinds of chances hehehe.

As others have mentioned, the PK is too passive. When I watch some teams' PK, I get a little envious. Some teams are just so aggressive and active on the PK. That's what this team needs. Everyone talks about the Leaf's speed, and yet they don't seem to use it on the PK. They set up in their zone and just try and clog up the lanes <--- which doesn't even seem to work out for them.

Granted, the PK has gotten better the last couple of games, it's going to take many more games to convince me that they are doing something right.

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Old
12-26-2011, 09:00 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
The problem with our PK is we take to many bad penalties for starters,and we take to many penalties period. The speed of this team should for the most part see us getting more PP's than the other team. Discipline needs to be addressed in the context of (bad/lazy penalties).
Some of that has to be blamed on very inconsistent officiating. Especially at the ACC there seems to be a script that must be adhered to that at the end of the game both teams will have an equal amount of PP chances no matter how many fouls the visiting team commits (called or ignored). I don't want to use the refs as an excuse but ever since that Sunday road game in Carolina the Leafs have been getting the short end of the stick almost every game.

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Old
12-26-2011, 09:14 AM
  #35
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combination of goalies/players imo

i don't think the coaching is nearly as much at fault as some people say it is

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Old
12-26-2011, 09:24 AM
  #36
ULF_55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
The problem with our PK is we take to many bad penalties for starters,and we take to many penalties period. The speed of this team should for the most part see us getting more PP's than the other team. Discipline needs to be addressed in the context of (bad/lazy penalties).

There assignments leave me wondering what the hell they are doing when 3 of the 4 are caught behind the net or in a corner when a goal is scored. Watch for this for yourself!
Is there a site that shows where they are taking the most penalties?

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Old
12-26-2011, 09:47 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Is there a site that shows where they are taking the most penalties?
Not sure ,but i wouldn't mind having a look. They have taken to many penalties in bad places/wrong times. I never mind a penalty to take away a scoring chance,but offensive zone penalties drive me around the bend.

Yeah, i'll have a look actually. here is one:http://www.behindthenet.ca/stats_2012.html


Last edited by leafspring*: 12-26-2011 at 09:56 AM.
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Old
12-26-2011, 10:24 AM
  #38
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Old
12-26-2011, 10:28 AM
  #39
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Here is a interesting read:http://hockeyanalytics.com/2008/01/t...-hockeynomics/

read rule#5 lol.

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Old
12-26-2011, 10:53 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansfield View Post
combination of goalies/players imo

i don't think the coaching is nearly as much at fault as some people say it is
I agree with you because:http://hockeyanalytics.com/2008/12/p...ell-the-story/

and, the fact that this team doesn't throw anything different at teams in terms of emotion/character during a penalty kill. Some grit/discipline/nasty/and the lack of a shadow against opponents top players are all factors.etc.

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Old
12-26-2011, 11:58 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
Do the Marlies use their best players on the PK?

My guess is, we need to start using our better players with better hockey sense on the PK. Not that I'm blaming the players, because the coach plays a key role in this.
i posted the top 5 PK teams in the NHL and the players they use about a week ago or so...and there were as many stars on the list as plugs...so can't disagree with you.

i wouldn't mind seeing Grabovski, Kessel, Lupul, and Mac kill more penalties. not sure if it would do us any good but there certainly isn't anything to lose trying it.

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Old
12-26-2011, 12:03 PM
  #42
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They MUST practice against each other so It's the PP's fault that the PK sucks

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Old
12-26-2011, 01:57 PM
  #43
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IMHO it's a combo of players, coachs and management.

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Old
12-26-2011, 04:24 PM
  #44
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I voted other, also known as everyone.

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Old
12-26-2011, 04:26 PM
  #45
TheLeastOfTheBunch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Courage View Post
This team will be too crappy to fight for a playoff position. Fire Cronin!

Well, they've been in the race for nearly half the season.

Why aren't they better?!?!?! Fire Cronin!
Nice

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Old
12-26-2011, 04:32 PM
  #46
The Blue Devil
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Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
So wait, in the last 4 years we've had one constant (coaching), and 5 variables (goaltending), yet you somehow still conclude it's the 5 variables fault for a 'piss poor penalty kill'. Interesting.

Thought I would just add another point. Since you say (in bolded), goaltending is arguably the most important part of the PK; using your logic, if the goaltending improves the penalty kill will improve. Yet, if this is true, then Ron Wilson should not be credited for the improvement of the penalty kill but instead, the goaltender since they are currently being blamed for the 'piss poor penalty kill'. Just want to make sure we are consistent here.
PK was bad before Wilson.

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Old
12-26-2011, 04:34 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
PK was bad before Wilson.
For 6 years, 7 including the lockout.

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Old
12-26-2011, 04:34 PM
  #48
T M L
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Wilson, All him. Terrible coach.

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Old
12-26-2011, 04:34 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
PK was bad before Wilson.
Unpossible, only Wilson can make a PK bad.

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Old
12-26-2011, 04:40 PM
  #50
The Blue Devil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Courage View Post
Unpossible, only Wilson can make a PK bad.
The 06 Leafs knew Wilson was coming in the near future which screwed up their focus and made them bad, so Wilson's future presence was the reason for the Leafs bad PK before he came. #science

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