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Old
12-27-2011, 02:22 AM
  #176
Wheatking
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
So let me get this straight.

Going from the 27th ranked PP to the 3rd isn't progress? The 29th ranked PK to 8th?

It's not always about wins and losses. Losing to a good team like Vancouver isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Yes we crapped the bed in the first period but we played well the rest of the way. We scored 2 PP goals, held the best PP unit in the league off the scoresheet as well.

Is that not progress?
Winning small battles is nice(improving special teams/Bulin having bounce back year/RNH fav. for Calder) but eventually you have to start winning some wars. That's really where it counts.

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12-27-2011, 02:22 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
It isn't concrete progress until the Oilers start pushing their way up the standings. Doesn't it bother you that last year's team was a better club 5 on 5?
Well our 5 on 5 GF/GA is sitting at .98 right now. (14th in the league)

It was .74 last year. So I'm not sure what you're getting at. (29th)

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12-27-2011, 02:22 AM
  #178
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Well he's played 4 more games then Whitney and has 6 more points. And last year he played 81 games and put up 68 points. Yea it sure looks like we didn't lose that trade.
In what world would a trade for a 35 year old defencemen making 5.6 million, with 9 points in 22 games on a team that is 2nd last in the NHL, for a defencemen who was close to a PPG before falling to injury who has also had an awful start a "steal" for the Ducks?

If anything I think it is a wash since Lubo's is the better player, but his best days are soon to be behind him, and his contract is pretty bad given his production this year, where Whitney is still young and is making much less money than Lubo, but it will very likely be a strugle for him to be a healthy player. (and both are UFAs at the same time)

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12-27-2011, 02:23 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
Winning small battles is nice(improving special teams/Bulin having bounce back year/RNH fav. for Calder) but eventually you have to start winning some wars. That's really where it counts.
While I do agree some people are making it seem like we've regressed since last year.

And losing to Vancouver is absolutely unacceptable.

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12-27-2011, 02:23 AM
  #180
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I dunno if Lowe handles stress very well. I think that's generally been the problem. As a player at least you have an immediate outlet for that (a game or even a hard practice) ... but GM or coach ... not so much.
I think he deserves a chance (small though it is) to rescue his legacy in this town. He was a good coach. Shouldve stayed there. He wasnt a bad babysitter for a financially hooped team either. The wheels fell off with the Pronger deal and all the pending ufa hires. When the plug was pulled on the bathtub, all those acquisitions washed down the drain and we were left with the Horcoff's, Pisani's and Moreau's of the world. The damage Prendergrast did to this organization cannot be understated either.

Realistically he probably wouldnt have any interest in my challenge, but I would offer it nonetheless. Its time for him to gtfo, and he can take his sock puppet (Tambellini) and Brutus (Renney) out the door with him.

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12-27-2011, 02:25 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
So let me get this straight.

Going from the 27th ranked PP to the 3rd isn't progress? The 29th ranked PK to 8th?

It's not always about wins and losses. Losing to a good team like Vancouver isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Yes we crapped the bed in the first period but we played well the rest of the way. We scored 2 PP goals, held the best PP unit in the league off the scoresheet as well.

Is that not progress?
It shows we improved on how to put the puck in the net and how to stop it from going in ours in special situations. Unfortunately it doesn't show that our team knows that the puck has to go into the other teams net more then ours, and until that happens I don't care where our PP and PK stats are.

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12-27-2011, 02:25 AM
  #182
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Marc Crawford is an idiot as an announcer, but as a coach ...

Joe Sakic had his career high points under Crawford

Naslund's numbers immediately jumped under Crawford too, eventually peaking above 100 points (career year)

Bertuzzi obviously had his career high points with Crawford.

Even in L.A., while he wasn't that successful there, that was early in their rebuild (pre-Doughty) and Crawford coached Kopitar to two very successful initial years in the NHL (66 pts, then improved again to 77 pts in year 2), which no one was really expecting.

Brad Richards tied his career high in points under Crawford (91 pts), bouncing back from a couple of sub-par year prior to that which say Tampa want to dump his salary.

I don't even like the guy's personality ... but I do think he could get some results here and is more capable of coaching an offense first team.

Buchburger? Oh dear ... gawd. Would we be in a lot of trouble. Watch Eberle and RNH's numbers regress and Hall just sputter out.

I think we need a coach who can squeeze offence from Taylor Hall in particular. We need to get his game going to next level, Eberle and RNH aren't enough.

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Old
12-27-2011, 02:26 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
While I do agree some people are making it seem like we've regressed since last year.

And losing to Vancouver is absolutely unacceptable.
Newsflash. Losing to Vancouver and Calgary SHOULD be unacceptable. As soon as it becomes acceptable you become a loser franchise with a loser mentality. Three points in the standings isnt much to get excited about. Especially when you are adding Smyth and Hopkins to the mix. That to me screams lack of progress. How some people find it acceptable is beyond me.

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12-27-2011, 02:28 AM
  #184
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Gagner is still atrocious on the powerplay. The play ends in two ways when he tries to carry it into the O-zone. Dump it in and the opposing team gets it first and clears it or he tries to deke through 3 opposing players and the puck gets cleared. It's like he doesn't understand that he needs to do something new or just let someone else skate it in.

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12-27-2011, 02:28 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
While I do agree some people are making it seem like we've regressed since last year.

And losing to Vancouver is absolutely unacceptable.
I definitely wouldn't say the team has regressed...but we also didn't just lose to the Canucks. We've lost 10 of our last 13 games. It's kinda tough to take the positives out of a loss to a good team like the Canucks when you're also losing to the Flames, Hurricanes and Avalanche.

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12-27-2011, 02:29 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Newsflash. Losing to Vancouver and Calgary SHOULD be unacceptable. As soon as it becomes acceptable you become a loser franchise with a loser mentality. Three points in the standings isnt much to get excited about. Especially when you are adding Smyth and Hopkins to the mix. That to me screams lack of progress. How some people find it acceptable is beyond me.
I agree with the latter, but losing to last year's Conference Champion and one of the best teams in the league?

They've only lost within the division 3 times, and at home 5 times. Like it or not, Vancouver is a VERY good hockey team.

And Smyth isn't as great an addition as you think. Sure he started hot but lately he's started to look like an old man.

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12-27-2011, 02:29 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
Well our 5 on 5 GF/GA is sitting at .98 right now. (14th in the league)

It was .74 last year. So I'm not sure what you're getting at. (29th)
Yeah, I looked it up. It certainly surprised me.

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Old
12-27-2011, 02:31 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Yeah, I looked it up. It certainly surprised me.
It certainly doesn't look good when you see the results, but this team isn't getting blown out as many games as it did last year. We have yet to see a 7-1 or 8-2 game against us this year. ...So far, anyway.

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12-27-2011, 02:31 AM
  #189
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I think generally the Oilers are playing better this year, and that's evident in a lot of categories.

What ends up happening is there are stretches during games where more veteran teams (cough, Calgary, cough) take advantage of some of our mistakes to squeeze out wins.

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12-27-2011, 02:33 AM
  #190
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I loved your start this season but it seems like the season is going downhill very fast. I have a question and that is why do you need both Hordichuk and Eager dressed every night, playing and IMO bringing down two lines when depth scoring is so important in this league.

There was nobody to fight on the Canucks yet two forward spots are wasted on guys who can only fight(Hordi) or will only take penalties against the top PP(Eager).


I hope you can get your season back on track but it's going to take some better depth.

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12-27-2011, 02:35 AM
  #191
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Anyway, it still bothers the hell out of me that they're only 3 points up on their pace from last year. All of the wonderful Powerplay/PK and Goals For, Goals Against stats in the world can't disguise that fact. It's depressing to think that with a marginal improvement on the defence we could be seeing some real tangible results.

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12-27-2011, 02:35 AM
  #192
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I actually agree with Keith that we have improved as a team. As for the wins and points, IMHO they will stay low as long as we ice AHL quality defense. Draft or sign - it's a GM's call, but at the point for our team "NHL-ready defense = improvement in standings".

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12-27-2011, 02:35 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
I agree with the latter, but losing to last year's Conference Champion and one of the best teams in the league?

They've only lost within the division 3 times, and at home 5 times. Like it or not, Vancouver is a VERY good hockey team.

And Smyth isn't as great an addition as you think. Sure he started hot but lately he's started to look like an old man.
An old man who beats the **** out of Horcoff, Hemsky, Gagner, ya he's old, but Ill take an old guy who will fight and try every shift over perennial has beens, losers, and never were's.

Its not about this game in particular, but even if you just look at this game, this team wasnt prepared to play when the puck was dropped. We were out of it before most fans could open a second beer. Pushed around all night with no pushback. Same old soft, easy Oilers.

Nothing's changed.

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12-27-2011, 02:36 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
I loved your start this season but it seems like the season is going downhill very fast. I have a question and that is why do you need both Hordichuk and Eager dressed every night, playing and IMO bringing down two lines when depth scoring is so important in this league.

There was nobody to fight on the Canucks yet two forward spots are wasted on guys who can only fight(Hordi) or will only take penalties against the top PP(Eager).


I hope you can get your season back on track but it's going to take some better depth.
Well it sucks because Hemsky is constantly in and out of the lineup, which leaves a massive hole in our top six. So usually that means Ryan Jones moves up the lineup leaving space open on the 4th line.

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12-27-2011, 02:37 AM
  #195
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Buchburger? Oh dear ... gawd. Would we be in a lot of trouble. Watch Eberle and RNH's numbers regress and Hall just sputter out.
What empirical evidence do you have to arrive at this conclusion?

I said this in another thread, but for all the hate Buchberger gets I don't think I've seen a single decent argument put forward as to why Buchberger would make a poor head coach (let alone for why he is a bad assistant). He wouldn't be my choice (I think there are better options out there who are better known entities) but statements like these ones leave me scratching my head.

I think the anti-Buchberger stuff that gets peddled on these boards isn't rooted in his demonstrated shortcomings. I think it's the merit argument (he didn't really work his way up) as well as fandom's need for a whipping boy and Buchberger is an easy target.

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12-27-2011, 02:37 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
An old man who beats the **** out of Horcoff, Hemsky, Gagner, ya he's old, but Ill take an old guy who will fight and try every shift over perennial has beens, losers, and never were's.

Its not about this game in particular, but even if you just look at this game, this team wasnt prepared to play when the puck was dropped. We were out of it before most fans could open a second beer. Pushed around all night with no pushback. Same old soft, easy Oilers.

Nothing's changed.
We're not a very physical roster (Smyth isn't really going to punish anyone physically either).

I did get a kick out of seeing RNH get Bieksa pretty good and Hall sent Edler (I think) flying in the last minute.

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12-27-2011, 02:39 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
An old man who beats the **** out of Horcoff, Hemsky, Gagner, ya he's old, but Ill take an old guy who will fight and try every shift over perennial has beens, losers, and never were's.

Its not about this game in particular, but even if you just look at this game, this team wasnt prepared to play when the puck was dropped. We were out of it before most fans could open a second beer. Pushed around all night with no pushback. Same old soft, easy Oilers.

Nothing's changed.
That sounds like Smyth to me.

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12-27-2011, 02:40 AM
  #198
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Well it sucks because Hemsky is constantly in and out of the lineup, which leaves a massive hole in our top six. So usually that means Ryan Jones moves up the lineup leaving space open on the 4th line.
Oh that's too bad! I've just noticed that every game I watch both Hordi and eager are in and on different lines. I get that you need some toughness around the kids, but it would be better if it was spread throughout the line-up instead of a pure fighter who can only play 4-5 minutes max. I guess losing Sutton(BS suspension length IMO) really hurts the team toughness as well.

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12-27-2011, 02:41 AM
  #199
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In what world would a trade for a 35 year old defencemen making 5.6 million, with 9 points in 22 games on a team that is 2nd last in the NHL, for a defencemen who was close to a PPG before falling to injury who has also had an awful start a "steal" for the Ducks?

If anything I think it is a wash since Lubo's is the better player, but his best days are soon to be behind him, and his contract is pretty bad given his production this year, where Whitney is still young and is making much less money than Lubo, but it will very likely be a strugle for him to be a healthy player. (and both are UFAs at the same time)
Money isn't an issue for us right now so I don't see why that comes into the picture unless were a cap team. And if we could I would trade Whitney for Vishnovsky right now. I think having Whitney miss 3/4's of a season and hurting the team by having a 4M player sidelined far outways the benefits of age. Also love how you didn't say anything about his 68P and 81 games last season. To put that in perspective Vishnovsky has played roughly double the games Whitney has over the last season and a half and it could be close to triple by the end of the season. Yea it wasn't a steal by Anaheim keep telling yourself that.

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12-27-2011, 02:44 AM
  #200
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That sounds like Smyth to me.
I think you are putting forward an optimistic but perfectly reasonable argument that this year's team is improved over last year's... but I'm puzzled at your discounting of Ryan Smyth's contributions to this team. IMO it seems quite obvious that Smyth has played a role in any progress the Oilers have made this season... I might even go as far as saying the two arguments are mutually exclusive.

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