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If Leino, Gerbe, Myers, Tropp and Ennis return, who is gonna play?

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Old
12-27-2011, 11:31 AM
  #51
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Watching Stafford labor to his feet with what looked like lower body discomfort after a collision in the first period, and then time missed at the start of the second... who knows if they don't wind up with someone else on the IR.

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12-27-2011, 11:33 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Watching Stafford labor to his feet with what looked like lower body discomfort after a collision in the first period, and then time missed at the start of the second... who knows if they don't wind up with someone else on the IR.
I thought he looked good after that, though.

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12-27-2011, 12:15 PM
  #53
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I thought he looked good after that, though.
Wasn't his puck rush / deke to the left (around the right side of the Caps d-man) with about 12:30 remaining in the 3rd? If so, he certainly looked ok then...

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12-27-2011, 12:19 PM
  #54
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Can we run a mixture of Leino, Adam, Hecht, and Boyes on a line at some point? We can call it the 2nd line center line.

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12-27-2011, 12:34 PM
  #55
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Watching Stafford labor to his feet with what looked like lower body discomfort after a collision in the first period, and then time missed at the start of the second... who knows if they don't wind up with someone else on the IR.
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I thought he looked good after that, though.
I thought last night was one of his best skating games of the season. He had very active feet throughout the game. It was reminiscent of last season.

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12-27-2011, 12:58 PM
  #56
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burying Hecht on the 4th line doesn't seem very honest...
I figure he'll work into the top 6 when Lindy shuffles the lines anyway. He can take the spot of Boyes, Leino or Adam if they're struggling because he's versatile.

Honestly, they flat out need to move a winger to make room for Kassian, but that's not going to happen.

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12-27-2011, 01:11 PM
  #57
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I thought last night was one of his best skating games of the season. He had very active feet throughout the game. It was reminiscent of last season.
It was exactly the kind of play he exemplified last year that got him out of my **** house. Many more like this will do wonders towards a repeat exit from jbuddys doghouse

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12-27-2011, 01:14 PM
  #58
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If healthy, i still think the best lineup this team can put on the ice includes both Kassian and McNabb.

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12-27-2011, 01:16 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
As much as I hate to say it, I've got a feeling McNabb and Kassian will both be returned to Rochester when (if) we get healthy.
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Originally Posted by Mergus merganser View Post
IMHO both will be returned to rochester as soon as everyone is healthy. Mostly for cap reasons. They just can't keep them, unless they make a move.
That's what it looks like....

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Is grags still eligable to skip waivers to get sent to Rochester?
I really wonder if any other team would claim him as the Sabres - and some fans - fear. I can't see other GMs missing how weak he is defensively and in handling stronger forwards and it's not as if his offensive skills feature some dynamic element (i.e. a Souray/Bergeron slapshot or Zubov-like passing on the PP).

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McNabb goes back; I really think Kassian stays. They can keep him on the roster and be under the cap, though only barely.
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I haven't really liked Kassian's game for the last week or so. I hesitate to use the word "invisible," but there have been large swaths of particular games or stretches of games where I haven't noticed him doing anything. Also, I think he's definitely not winning a numbers game when Pominville, Stafford, and Boyes are all playing better than him.

In sum, I just don't think there's an argument that Kass has been playing better than any of those other three RWs of late (and including Boyes' play just prior to his injury), while I do think McNabb has been better than at least one of the top-6 (Weber).
If I had to choose between the two, I'd keep McNabb up with the Sabres and send Kassian back.

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Here's what I'd do:

Vanek-Adam-Poms
Boyes-Roy-Stafford
Ennis-Leino-Kassian
Gerbe-Gaustad-Hecht

Myers-Regehr
McNabb-Ehrhoff
Leopold-Sekera
What happened to Kaleta? I can see sitting McCormick as an extra but, when healthy, Kaleta is far too valuable to keep out of the lineup.

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burying Hecht on the 4th line doesn't seem very honest...
...or intelligent.

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Honestly, they flat out need to move a winger to make room for Kassian, but that's not going to happen.
Agreed - I suspect that the Sabres will let the natural course of events unfold where they let Boyes leave as an UFA next summer while Kassian gets more development time in Rochester this season, then promote Kassian full-time for next season. That has been Regier's usual M.O.

It could also depend on whether or not they trade for a veteran winger with proven scoring ability and a physical side (i.e. Iginla, Morrow).

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12-27-2011, 01:21 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by sba View Post
I figure he'll work into the top 6 when Lindy shuffles the lines anyway. He can take the spot of Boyes, Leino or Adam if they're struggling because he's versatile.

Honestly, they flat out need to move a winger to make room for Kassian, but that's not going to happen.
Ultimately, I think they will do this. I just think it'll be closer to mid-February when it happens. Kassian going back to the A until then isn't going to hurt him, and I'm of the opinion that it won't hurt the team, either. He hasn't been enough of a factor over the last 2+ weeks that Darcy should be burning up the phone lines to get rid of another top-9 winger just to make room for him.

Trade Boyes around the deadline to free up space for a separate trade for a defensive-minded center, and promote Kassian for the remainder of the season at that time. But I make those moves not because Kassian must be in the lineup, but that they make sense for the team as a whole and it's sound asset management (Boyes isn't going to be re-signed).

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12-27-2011, 01:26 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Ultimately, I think they will do this. I just think it'll be closer to mid-February when it happens. Kassian going back to the A until then isn't going to hurt him, and I'm of the opinion that it won't hurt the team, either. He hasn't been enough of a factor over the last 2+ weeks that Darcy should be burning up the phone lines to get rid of another top-9 winger just to make room for him.

Trade Boyes around the deadline to free up space for a separate trade for a defensive-minded center, and promote Kassian for the remainder of the season at that time.
If Boyes - or someone else - is traded even-up for another player (center or otherwise), it won't simplify the numbers game in terms of freeing up a roster spot in the forward ranks for Kassian. The Sabres would need to do a 2-for-1 type of deal if they add from the outside and still want to free up space for Kassian.

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12-27-2011, 01:27 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Ultimately, I think they will do this. I just think it'll be closer to mid-February when it happens. Kassian going back to the A until then isn't going to hurt him, and I'm of the opinion that it won't hurt the team, either. He hasn't been enough of a factor over the last 2+ weeks that Darcy should be burning up the phone lines to get rid of another top-9 winger just to make room for him.
I think it will...

Assuming VHP is staying together... and the newly formed SRB line stays together... taking Kassian off that 3rd line that has been able to grind away many shifts... i think it hurts the team. I think that line (Kassian/Adam) turns the shift rotations in the Sabres favor a lot. I think Zach's abilities help in a big way. It allows the Sabres to control the game more.

I still think we are weeks away from dealing with this issue, since it only becomes an issue when Leino is healthy.

With Gerbe coming back, i'd take McCormick or Kaleta out when Gerbe is ready. Ellis has played far too good as a 4th liner.

VHP
SRB
Ellis-Adam-Kassian
Gerbe-Goose-Kaleta/McCormick

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12-27-2011, 01:34 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
If Boyes - or someone else - is traded even-up for another player (center or otherwise), it won't simplify the numbers game in terms of freeing up a roster spot in the forward ranks for Kassian. The Sabres would need to do a 2-for-1 type of deal if they add from the outside and still want to free up space for Kassian.
You presume Kaleta has to be in the lineup if he's healthy--presuming he'll be healthy is another issue altogether, and we know he has to miss another 10-15 games to get to his usual 50-55 mark--while I do not. I'd have no problem putting Gerbe on the 4th line as a RW, a position he's played in the past.

Personally, I'd go:

VAP
ERS
Leino-Nielsen?-Kassian
Hecht-Gaustad-Gerbe

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12-27-2011, 01:36 PM
  #64
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What happened to Kaleta? I can see sitting McCormick as an extra but, when healthy, Kaleta is far too valuable to keep out of the lineup.
Not a fan as of late. He's getting called for dumb **** because of his reputation.

Team has too many guys who can play regularly...start moving pieces to make room is the bottom line.

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12-27-2011, 01:39 PM
  #65
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With Gerbe coming back, i'd take McCormick or Kaleta out when Gerbe is ready. Ellis has played far too good as a 4th liner.

VHP
SRB
Ellis-Adam-Kassian
Gerbe-Goose-Kaleta/McCormick
McCormick, maybe - but Kaleta? No way. Not only does he bring as much physical energy as Kassian or McCormick may but he's quickly evolved into one of their best penalty killers. Staying healthy will always be an issue with his all-out, kamikaze style but he is as worthy of a lineup spot as either Kassian or Ellis.

Their chemistry as a trio suggests putting Gerbe back with Gaustad & Kaleta but I think Gerbe's speed (and offensive ability) would definitely complement Adam-Kassian as well and allow Ruff to keep a 4th line of Gaustad, Kaleta and McCormick. As good a soldier and team player as Ellis is, let's remember that he was primarily re-signed for his leadership and example with the young players in Rochester. I don't see anything wrong with demoting him, knowing he'll be back when needed.

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12-27-2011, 01:44 PM
  #66
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he's quickly evolved into one of their best penalty killers
This team has no lack of PK options. Being a good PKer means very little with this group, and in no way should keep someone in the lineup.

Vanek, Roy, Poms, Goose, Kaleta, Stafford, Gerbe, and Hecht can all kill penalties.

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12-27-2011, 02:46 PM
  #67
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Ultimately, I think they will do this. I just think it'll be closer to mid-February when it happens. Kassian going back to the A until then isn't going to hurt him, and I'm of the opinion that it won't hurt the team, either. He hasn't been enough of a factor over the last 2+ weeks that Darcy should be burning up the phone lines to get rid of another top-9 winger just to make room for him.

Trade Boyes around the deadline to free up space for a separate trade for a defensive-minded center, and promote Kassian for the remainder of the season at that time. But I make those moves not because Kassian must be in the lineup, but that they make sense for the team as a whole and it's sound asset management (Boyes isn't going to be re-signed).
Boyes has been one of the best players on the team when healthy. Moving him to keep Kassian up makes the team worse, and that doesn't make sense in my opinion.

Frankly I'd rather keep Kassian in the A until the playoffs start and the cap/roster limit goes away, then bring him up, instead of trading Boyes away when he's playing THIS well.

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Old
12-27-2011, 05:13 PM
  #68
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Not a fan as of late. He's getting called for dumb **** because of his reputation.

Team has too many guys who can play regularly...start moving pieces to make room is the bottom line.
He's still been better than Gerbe. Gerbe was outright putrid taking really stupid penalties and not contributing offensively for most of the season. He's had 3, maybe 4? games where he was actually decent.

Gerbe should be riding the pine right now.

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12-27-2011, 06:17 PM
  #69
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He's still been better than Gerbe. Gerbe was outright putrid taking really stupid penalties and not contributing offensively for most of the season. He's had 3, maybe 4? games where he was actually decent.

Gerbe should be riding the pine right now.
For some reason people seem to have a love affair with both Gerbe and Kaleta round these parts.

I agree Kaleta is one of our best PKers, but he doesn't stay healthy enough (long enough) to be another more then a bit player IMO.

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12-27-2011, 06:44 PM
  #70
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Boyes has been one of the best players on the team when healthy.
That's simply not true. He's quite literally a complete non-factor at ES. The guy has three (3!) ES points in 22 games--let that marinate a moment. He's averaging .75 pts/60 mins of ES ice time. Here is the exhaustive list of forwards who produce less at ES: Cody McCormick and Patrick Kaleta. And for only 4x the cost!

Boyes is the very definition of a one-dimensional player. He's been good on the PP. That's it. Personally, I think his cap dollars can be better allocated when we have the RWs that we do.

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Moving him to keep Kassian up makes the team worse, and that doesn't make sense in my opinion.
That's certainly an arguable proposition, even ignoring the fact that my plan entails using Boyes' departed cap hit to obtain an additional player. As stated above, Boyes is inept at ES. He's not particularly good defensively. I move him and use his money to get a top-9 defensive forward.

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Frankly I'd rather keep Kassian in the A until the playoffs start and the cap/roster limit goes away, then bring him up, instead of trading Boyes away when he's playing THIS well.
And I'd rather keep him until around the deadline, move him for a pick, and use a pick to obtain a top-9 defensive forward who can play tougher minutes.

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12-27-2011, 08:44 PM
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That's simply not true. He's quite literally a complete non-factor at ES. The guy has three (3!) ES points in 22 games--let that marinate a moment. He's averaging .75 pts/60 mins of ES ice time. Here is the exhaustive list of forwards who produce less at ES: Cody McCormick and Patrick Kaleta. And for only 4x the cost!

Boyes is the very definition of a one-dimensional player. He's been good on the PP. That's it. Personally, I think his cap dollars can be better allocated when we have the RWs that we do.



That's certainly an arguable proposition, even ignoring the fact that my plan entails using Boyes' departed cap hit to obtain an additional player. As stated above, Boyes is inept at ES. He's not particularly good defensively. I move him and use his money to get a top-9 defensive forward.



And I'd rather keep him until around the deadline, move him for a pick, and use a pick to obtain a top-9 defensive forward who can play tougher minutes.
youre right boyes' price tag is outrageous for his production, but welcome to the NHL.. id rather that money be spent elsewhere too. however, i like what boyes brings. im not willing to dump his salary jsut to have space for ??? unless we know we are bringing in a better player with a better value, i dont think we should do it.

boyes might not produce a PPG but when hes on the ice hes generally one of our better players at maintaining the puck in the oppositions zone. thats a facet of the game that stats dont defend. wearing down the other team is important. hecht excels at this too. "intangibles" if you will. by doing this they create room for other lazy skilled players like roy and stafford so they can "dangle" instead of work for pucks.

.. and before you throw the matt ellis can do that for half the $.. lets remember that matt ellis isnt brad boyes. boyes is still a dangerous player whether hes tapped into that as a sabre yet or not. he has a cannon and slick hands too. he just also has the ability to grind which makes him a more valuable player than most people are willing to admit.

i think with the amount of guys we should be getting back and keeping back for a while (knock on wood) we have some serious options as far as trade bait now. weve got underachieving skilled vets like roy and stafford then weve got promising young players like .. well all of our callups .. so if weve ever needed leverage to make some moves its certainly now, as were finally getting healthy.

i wouldnt mind seeing stafford/roy, gerbe/enis, sekera/gragnani, packaged with any one of our callups to bring in a stud center and a battle hardened vet


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12-27-2011, 09:00 PM
  #72
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So our first line is this??

Vanek-?-Pominville

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12-27-2011, 09:08 PM
  #73
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So our first line is this??

Vanek-?-Pominville
i hope its a common understanding that you dont trade roy or any of our centers unless you have one or more coming back.. i think the idea most people are clinging to is that you use roy or stafford along with young guys/picks to essentially fill that 1c role .. if roys included its gotta be a for sure 1c

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12-27-2011, 09:18 PM
  #74
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For some reason people seem to have a love affair with both Gerbe and Kaleta round these parts.

I agree Kaleta is one of our best PKers, but he doesn't stay healthy enough (long enough) to be another more then a bit player IMO.
How many 4th liners are more than bit players? The thing is, he is the ideal 4th liner. Kaleta can change a game like very few 4th liners can, and IMO is still the best agitator in the league.

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12-27-2011, 09:56 PM
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How many 4th liners are more than bit players? The thing is, he is the ideal 4th liner. Kaleta can change a game like very few 4th liners can, and IMO is still the best agitator in the league.
its probably due to his injury/suspensions that hes not, but id like to see he and kassian step up their hitting game a little. two guys we have that can really lay the body and im just not seeing it out there. our hardest hitters are regehr gerbe and mcnabb .. two defenseman and the shortest forward on the team. nice.

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