The BLIND love for Konopka is for the LACK of overall TEAM TOUGHNESS.
Just like the BLIND love for a VERY 1 dimensional Matt Moulson who is the softest hockey player in the NHL.
That is why our #1 line gets hammered and pushed around, THAT is why our hockey team gets pushed around.
Get it now???
When fellow Isles fans bring up Konopka, it's because Konopka helped incite and instill something that was missing last year so as to make a POINT.
Too bad that POINT gets misinterpreted. It's not the same as stating Konopka was THE answer and that we NEEDED him more than anything on THIS team other than an improvement over the collective SOFT stink they brought in.
Either way, we are still a bottom 5 team but at least they learned to stand up for themselves.
WTF???
Did everyone forget how Tavares was cross checked, elbowed and even lost a tooth before we woke up last year???
Anyone watching the games???
Sorry to go off. I cannot sit by idly and read some of this stuff.
Steve, some people really do get hockey.
The rest is deleted as I just read 10Min's post......let's just say I am saddened some people never got to play the game.
Not everyone is a banger.
Not everyone is built to go into the corners and win the battles.
To jump up and down on Moulson, who is doing the job he is tasked with doing, and doing it well seems strange.
Why not make the move to move P.A. to line #2 and push K.O. up to the top unit... wait a tick...I think that is what will happen.
With K.O. playing the way he should be playing of late, there is the chance that he can really bring the top line some more grit, creating room for himself, and his line mates. P.A. may do well as part of the second unit with Neilsen and Grabner.
What I don't like about Nino being used on the 4th line is that there is not enough ice time.
If anything, I would like to see the 4th unit be Matt Martin, Nino and Bailey, with Ulstrom, Wallace and Reasoner as the 4th line for now. That said, we still run into the issue of having too many players of the same style. Ulstrom is likely better slotted for the 3rd line.
All of this should begin to shake out next season.
I don't expect Pandolfo, Rolston or P.A. to be back.
In fact, I would not be surprised if P.A. is an element of a trade package, for what I am not quite sure.
I think a line of PAP JT KO is better than MM JT KO for the simple reason that the PAP line would have 3 players who have the ability to skate the puck into the zone & are willing to dig in the corners. The MM line would only have 2.
Moulsons skills would translate just fine on some type of MM Bailey Nino/Martin line. Just park himself infront of the net & hope to get some rebounds. But there's a serious problem when our best offensive player is spending at least 50% of his shifts pinned in his own zone. Partially because Moulson is lousy defensively & partially because even if our D get it, they only have 2 options to pass to instead of 3 because MM is useless in the neutral zone.
I don't mean to hate on Matt Moulson. I like him, he's a valuable player for the team, but this first line isn't working & I see him as being the weakest link.
Tidbit 1
"Nino is here because I am a man of my word."
Ok, let's go to the video tape.
"We need another top 4 defenseman and it is my job to get that done." (or something like that.)
Oh, dear, looks like you are not a man of your word cause you didn't get jack **** on defense. In fact it is worse than last year.
Tidbit 2
"What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger."
That's one possible result. Another more likely result is:
"what doesn't kill you weakens you to the point you get slaughtered the next time around."
Or did you learn nothing from watching Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom all those years ago Garf? Oh Garf, Garf, Garf... You better trade for some better bounces this summer. Maybe get yourself another Captain who falls apart under pressure and who looks lamer than Streit.
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger? Isn't that just another way of saying "it's good we're losing now?"
I mean that is just the wrong message to send to the fans & players. It's basically saying "don't worry about it, we'll be good later on because we suck now.
There's a reason people talk about veterans on young teams that teach them how to win. You don't learn to win by getting your brains beat in every night. You learn to win by winning.
The Rangers are a younger team than we are, but you wouldn't know it because that club surrounded their young players with quality NHL veterans still very much in their prime. Our veterans either never had a prime, or it ended 6 years ago.
Our young players can't turn into our veteran players in 3+ years & expect to teach Brock Nelson & Johan Sundstrom how to win, when no one taught them.
Get some damn legitimate top 6/top 4 talent next offseason. Sign it, trade for it, kidnap their girlfriends, I don't care, just bring in some players who can lead this team. the only leadership can not come from your bottom tier players. It must come from your top players. It's the only way.
For the love of god, stop hoarding every single one of these prospects. Making a trade to bring in players who help John Tavares & Josh Bailey is not "giving up on the rebuild." It's helping it. Trading Matt Donnovan, Brock Nelson, Casey Czikas & a pick for instance isn't giving up on the rebuild if you're bringing back a good player who can help lead the players already here. Hell this club can trade all 3 of those players & Anders Lee & Mikko Koskinen & David Ullstrom & Robbie Russo and they'd still have a deep system. I'm not saying they should do that, but they've done a really solid job restocking the system, but it won't mean a thing if when these players come up, they're being led by players who were never taught how to lead...if that makes sense.
Last edited by Isles Junkie: 12-28-2011 at 11:11 PM.
Tidbit 1
"Nino is here because I am a man of my word."
Ok, let's go to the video tape.
"We need another top 4 defenseman and it is my job to get that done." (or something like that.)
Oh, dear, looks like you are not a man of your word cause you didn't get jack **** on defense. In fact it is worse than last year.
Tidbit 2
"What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger."
That's one possible result. Another more likely result is:
"what doesn't kill you weakens you to the point you get slaughtered the next time around."
Or did you learn nothing from watching Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom all those years ago Garf? Oh Garf, Garf, Garf... You better trade for some better bounces this summer. Maybe get yourself another Captain who falls apart under pressure and who looks lamer than Streit.
I thought we were just running a circus. I didn't know that we were running romper room, too.
Tidbit 1
"Nino is here because I am a man of my word."
Well, it has a better ring than "Nino is here because Charlie's fond of his big cap hit and low salary"
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick
"What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger."
In that case, anyone who's been following this team for more than a few years is a veritable Terminator
Did he really say that? I'm gonna have to take your word. I refuse to watch yet another one of his answer-nothing sessions because they only make me mad at how little this organization thinks of its fans. "They'll never catch on to how Garth mumbles a lot of words without saying anything, stay the course"
I think Garth only succeeded in alienating and infuriating even more fans after this debacle. How that is possible I don't know but the guy is obviously oblivious to the what the fans are really asking for. Idiot!
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger? Isn't that just another way of saying "it's good we're losing now?"
I mean that is just the wrong message to send to the fans & players. It's basically saying "don't worry about it, we'll be good later on because we suck now.
There's a reason people talk about veterans on young teams that teach them how to win. You don't learn to win by getting your brains beat in every night. You learn to win by winning.
The Rangers are a younger team than we are, but you wouldn't know it because that club surrounded their young players with quality NHL veterans still very much in their prime. Our veterans either never had a prime, or it ended 6 years ago.
Our young players can't turn into our veteran players in 3+ years & expect to teach Brock Nelson & Johan Sundstrom how to win, when no one taught them.
Get some damn legitimate top 6/top 4 talent next offseason. Sign it, trade for it, kidnap their girlfriends, I don't care, just bring in some players who can lead this team. the only leadership can not come from your bottom tier players. It must come from your top players. It's the only way.
For the love of god, stop hoarding every single one of these prospects. Making a trade to bring in players who help John Tavares & Josh Bailey is not "giving up on the rebuild." It's helping it. Trading Matt Donnovan, Brock Nelson, Casey Czikas & a pick for instance isn't giving up on the rebuild if you're bringing back a good player who can help lead the players already here. Hell this club can trade all 3 of those players & Anders Lee & Mikko Koskinen & David Ullstrom & Robbie Russo and they'd still have a deep system. I'm not saying they should do that, but they've done a really solid job restocking the system, but it won't mean a thing if when these players come up, they're being led by players who were never taught how to lead...if that makes sense.
The problem: who picks the player we're trading for?
The guy who brought us this summer's UFA class is gonna determine who best plays with Rolston, Staios, Reasoner, Eaton, Mattau, Nino and Tavares.
I'd rather.....do nothing. Just start over next summer and hope the press gets worse each day til then so Wang will fire Snow (mod edit)
Last edited by Isles Junkie: 12-29-2011 at 08:57 AM.
Reason: leave that stuff outta here, we have kids who read this site
Scoring is what Moulson is here to do, i don't understand the Moulson hate now
We pick on players instead of management. Last year, it was Bruno's/Tamby's fault we did not make the playoffs. This year, Moulson and Streit.
I guess the rebuild is working. Our targets this year are better players than before.
I think Garth only succeeded in alienating and infuriating even more fans after this debacle. How that is possible I don't know but the guy is obviously oblivious to the what the fans are really asking for. Idiot!
Maybe, but there will likely be hundreds of "infuriated" fans at the Draft Party next June, slugging $5 sodas, $4 pretzels, $9 beers on a random night in the Summer when no money would otherwise be streaming in, especially if they have the #1 pick again. Might as well just call that spent money a donation to the Charles Wang Incompetence & Indifference Fund. Maybe it'll be tax deductible.
The truth is that the Islanders do not have 1 problem, they have 5 or 6 serious problems. I dont for one second believe Garth Snow honestly believed this to be a playoff team at the start of the year. They have decided for better or for worse to not spend a penny more than they have to until it is their own home grown players getting the payoff. I am including guys like Moulson and Parenteau in the home grown guys.
The Islanders are very soft, I love Konopka and would welcome him back with open arms, but more importantly we are soft on our top lines both offensively and defensively. They need a top 6 power forward and rather then bringing one it the Islanders are going to wait it out for Nino, Lee and Nelson.
Next the Islanders have next to no talent at all on their blue line. I dont think there is any other team in the league carrying three borderline NHL defenders on their roster (Eaton, Mottau and Jurcina). I would not be surprised to see all three out of the league after this season. I think that Staois is a good 5 or 6 guy but until he got hurt he was filling the #2 roll next to inferior post injury Mark Streit. You have to love Travis Hamonic and Andrew MacDonald is a solid NHL player but there isnt much depth. In my opinion the Islanders will be lucky if one of Ness, Donovan or deHaan turned into an above average player and they dont have many other prospects in the system.
Veteran leadership. The Islanders lack veteran leadership from players in their prime. All the Islanders vets are well past their time and in the twilight of their career. This is in my opinion a greatly overlooked issue. A guy like Rolston was a great player but I dont believe he pulls the respect of his opponents or brings credibility to the franchise.
Rick DiPietro. I know people are sick of hearing about it but it is a major problem. They need to cut the cord and let him play in the AHL until he proves himself an NHL goalie again. This would allow them to sign Montoya for a couple more years and let him compete with Poulin/Nilsson/Koskinen for the franchise goalie spot.
Coaching. The Islanders don't have any experience in NHL or AHL coaching roles. At some point the Islanders have to put a legit staff together. Remember Ted Nolan's roster made the playoffs and that wasnt the best roster ever assembled. I do believe the same cast of players would be better in the standings under Laviolette or Nolan.
Charles Wang. I dont mind a hands on owner but every decision Wang makes bites the Islanders in the ass. Remember when Milbury didnt let him interfere with the franchise we were respected enough to entice NHL players to play for us. I by no means want Milbury back but I want someone in this franchise to tell Wang when he needs to relax. I really wish the comittee of Trottier, LaFontaine and Smith could have found a way to work. I am 99% certain that the 15 year DiPietro contract idea is what ultimatley led to the dismissal of Smith.
Let's get back to discussing the GM show or this thread will be closed. Wanna talk about Konopka verses Reasoner, start another thread.
Are you serious???
The players being discussed who are here and are not are a direct result of Garth Snow's decisions as acting GM.
I get the whole "stay on topic".
But I post less frequently on here because it seems EVERY thread gets these warnings of closings.
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger? Isn't that just another way of saying "it's good we're losing now?"
I mean that is just the wrong message to send to the fans & players. It's basically saying "don't worry about it, we'll be good later on because we suck now.
There's a reason people talk about veterans on young teams that teach them how to win. You don't learn to win by getting your brains beat in every night. You learn to win by winning.
The Rangers are a younger team than we are, but you wouldn't know it because that club surrounded their young players with quality NHL veterans still very much in their prime. Our veterans either never had a prime, or it ended 6 years ago.
Our young players can't turn into our veteran players in 3+ years & expect to teach Brock Nelson & Johan Sundstrom how to win, when no one taught them.
Get some damn legitimate top 6/top 4 talent next offseason. Sign it, trade for it, kidnap their girlfriends, I don't care, just bring in some players who can lead this team. the only leadership can not come from your bottom tier players. It must come from your top players. It's the only way.
For the love of god, stop hoarding every single one of these prospects. Making a trade to bring in players who help John Tavares & Josh Bailey is not "giving up on the rebuild." It's helping it. Trading Matt Donnovan, Brock Nelson, Casey Czikas & a pick for instance isn't giving up on the rebuild if you're bringing back a good player who can help lead the players already here. Hell this club can trade all 3 of those players & Anders Lee & Mikko Koskinen & David Ullstrom & Robbie Russo and they'd still have a deep system. I'm not saying they should do that, but they've done a really solid job restocking the system, but it won't mean a thing if when these players come up, they're being led by players who were never taught how to lead...if that makes sense.
The BLIND love for Konopka is for the LACK of overall TEAM TOUGHNESS.
Just like the BLIND love for a VERY 1 dimensional Matt Moulson who is the softest hockey player in the NHL.
That is why our #1 line gets hammered and pushed around, THAT is why our hockey team gets pushed around.
Get it now???
When fellow Isles fans bring up Konopka, it's because Konopka helped incite and instill something that was missing last year so as to make a POINT.
Too bad that POINT gets misinterpreted. It's not the same as stating Konopka was THE answer and that we NEEDED him more than anything on THIS team other than an improvement over the collective SOFT stink they brought in.
Either way, we are still a bottom 5 team but at least they learned to stand up for themselves.
WTF???
Did everyone forget how Tavares was cross checked, elbowed and even lost a tooth before we woke up last year???
Anyone watching the games???
Sorry to go off. I cannot sit by idly and read some of this stuff.
I agree. For me it's more about what Konopka represented rather than the player himself. On paper (certainly not on the ice this year) Reasoner was a better player in terms of hockey skills. But for the skill they were supposedly upgrading over Zenon, the team lost the toughness he brought to the roster and his ability to seemingly instill the confidence to play more intensely in his fellow teammates.
So it doesn't bother me that they got rid of Konopka, per se. The problem is they just replaced him with the wrong player. If they replaced him with a better version of him (a more experienced Matt Martin, if you will), then that would have been great. But Marty Reasoner is NOT that type of player and as a result, this team is right back to where it was during the first half of last season. Soft.
EDIT: And to tie this in with the topic of the thread, Garth really dropped the ball by undervaluing players of this ilk. Yes, skill is more important than ever in the current NHL. But there are plenty of players that can play hockey and stick up for their teammates and fight when need be. But Garth failed to acquire this type of player.
Last edited by Strummergas: 12-29-2011 at 09:37 AM.
Totally agree. Z is just an example of what went wrong when they chased our heart and soul off the team and replaced them with the New Jersey connection, and Reasoner. It may come back to haunt this front office worse than anything since the DP contract. It may be what finally sends the very loyal Isles fans over the edge.
I agree. For me it's more about what Konopka represented rather than the player himself. On paper (certainly not on the ice this year) Reasoner was a better player in terms of hockey skills. But for the skill they were supposedly upgrading over Zenon, the team lost the toughness he brought to the roster and his ability to seemingly instill the confidence to play more intensely in his fellow teammates.
So it doesn't bother me that they got rid of Konopka, per se. The problem is they just replaced him with the wrong player. If they replaced him with a better version of him (a more experienced Matt Martin, if you will), then that would have been great. But Marty Reasoner is NOT that type of player and as a result, this team is right back to where it was during the first half of last season. Soft.
EDIT: And to tie this in with the topic of the thread, Garth really dropped the ball by undervaluing players of this ilk. Yes, skill is more important than ever in the current NHL. But there are plenty of players that can play hockey and stick up for their teammates and fight when need be. But Garth failed to acquire this type of player.
That's the whole issue I have too and I wish he was pressured MORE in that interview. Garth got rid of a player that took alot of penalties and wasn't the best faceoff guy but you can supplement that elsewhere because of the element Z brought to the team in term of confidence by reinforcing that in the dressing room post Feb Pens game.
Am I the only one who wished a FAN of the team was allowed to ask the questions?
As many have pointed out in this thread about this interview, he said nothing new nor surprising. I guess it's his smugness that hurts most. At least for me anyway.
Totally agree. Z is just an example of what went wrong when they chased our heart and soul off the team and replaced them with the New Jersey connection, and Reasoner. It may come back to haunt this front office worse than anything since the DP contract. It may be what finally sends the very loyal Isles fans over the edge.
I'll disagree with this, only because starting right now, Garth can realize his mistake and try to acquire a player to bring this element back to the line-up who won't be shuttled back and forth to Bridgeport. It can be corrected rather quickly if he wanted to.
I am certainly not defending Garth's answers, but...what the hell do you all expect from these things?...yeah, we suck, I suck, he sucks, they suck?....not going to happen. To his credit he does this where most would not, no matter the situation.
I thought at least this time around the questions, overall, were better in so much as they more addressed our concerns as fans. While the answers were not exactly what we, as fans, are looking for, the questions reinforce our concerns to our GM in as close to a face to face session as possible.
Will this make a difference?...probably not, but you just never know.
I'm intentionally not listening to this, avoid the frustration. Seems like I don't have to anyway; all of Garth's usual rhetoric and hollow statements are in this very thread.
Garth would probably win more fan support if he was honest and forthright in his messages, there's something endearing about that during time of disarray IMO.
He ends up coming across as condescending, disrespectful, and inept, in the process losing the faith of fandom. We know the team isn't a good one, he knows it (or does he?), so come clean and give the masses some security and direction (though he may be incapable of that?). Some of these answers are plainly 'mindbottling,' e.g. his comments on team toughness, Nino, Ehroff-Rolston. It's a scary prospect to think someone who could come up with these kinds of rationales is managing our beloved team.
That's one possible result. Another more likely result is:
