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Old
12-27-2011, 02:35 PM
  #1
thegodfather
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3 more out..

Just visited TSN and noticed 3 more players are out with concussions.

Weber with Nashville, Liles with Toronto and Gagne with the Kings.

Something has to give sooner or later.

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12-27-2011, 02:36 PM
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Baddkarma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
Just visited TSN and noticed 3 more players are out with concussions.

Weber with Nashville, Liles with Toronto and Gagne with the Kings.

Something has to give sooner or later.
Shut down the league, its the only way...

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12-27-2011, 02:39 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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People are saying removing red line has caused more speed in neutral zone and has caused higher impact collisions. Not saying put the two-line pass rule back, but i'm sure something can be done to keep a good balance.

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12-27-2011, 02:40 PM
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Something REALLY has to change, and I think it's the pads. Go back to the soft pads instead of the armor they wear now.

The league is losing lots of talent. Savard's going to have to retire, and it wouldn't surprise me if Crosby had to retire. If Crosby is done, twisted as it is, it would actually be really good for the league, because then they would actually address the problem.

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12-27-2011, 02:43 PM
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thegodfather
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
People are saying removing red line has caused more speed in neutral zone and has caused higher impact collisions. Not saying put the two-line pass rule back, but i'm sure something can be done to keep a good balance.
If I'm not mistaken our very own Hub discussed that in one of his write ups.

I'm not saying we need to go to the Olympic sized rinks, but maybe making them a little wider wouldn't wreck the so called North American game.

For me one of the biggest problems is the equipment though; it's like steel.

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12-27-2011, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
People are saying removing red line has caused more speed in neutral zone and has caused higher impact collisions. Not saying put the two-line pass rule back, but i'm sure something can be done to keep a good balance.
Or widen the rink. I don't see any other solution than one, or both of these.

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12-27-2011, 02:46 PM
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Pretty hard for a helmet to protect you when it's bouncing around on your head like an accessory rather than a piece of PPE.

I just watched the Liles hit, and his helmet wobbles around as soon as he gets up and shakes it off. Gaustad lined him up with a BEAUTY hit, totally clean, and there wasn't even any head contact from the replays I saw.

Ever think of tightening the chin strap so the helmet can do it's job?

That's half the problem I think.

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12-27-2011, 02:47 PM
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The solution has to be equipment related. You can't make huge alterations to the game every 5 years. It's an exciting, fast paced game that is wildly entertaining. I'm all for player safety, but I don't want the red line back in. It slows the game down horribly. You wanna take out the trapezoid, fine. No touch icing (not a huge fan), fine. . Cracking down on head shots/dirty hits, fine. Making the rinks a little bigger is also something I'm okay with, I just don't want the red line back in. Removing it was a genius move and is not responsible for the increase in concussions, at least not solely.

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12-27-2011, 02:48 PM
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Last night a player from the Minnesota Wild got hit head first into the dasher from behind. After laying on the ice for a few minutes he was taken to the quiet room.

I don't know the guy's name but I won't be surprised if he is on the list next. The guy who hit him got a 5 minute major and was tossed from the game.

For the 5,000,000 th time something has to be done with the dashers/glass, as well as the equipment the guys wear. They all play a part in the concussion problem.

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12-27-2011, 02:49 PM
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Time to ban hitting from the game...

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12-27-2011, 02:54 PM
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thegodfather
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallroomBitz View Post
Pretty hard for a helmet to protect you when it's bouncing around on your head like an accessory rather than a piece of PPE.

I just watched the Liles hit, and his helmet wobbles around as soon as he gets up and shakes it off. Gaustad lined him up with a BEAUTY hit, totally clean, and there wasn't even any head contact from the replays I saw.

Ever think of tightening the chin strap so the helmet can do it's job?

That's half the problem I think.
Just watched it. I agree that was a beauty of a hit and it's almost like Liles skated into him.

The Weber hit from the TSN video looked a little worse, it looks like the guy leaves his feet a bit but the angle is really poor.

I'm bad for the chin strap being loose but I have a big head and my helmet fits nice and tight, but I also don't play with contact and I don't skate at a 1/4 of the speed these guys do.

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12-27-2011, 02:57 PM
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NHL wanted a faster game with less contact away from the puck.

You cant back check anymore, so the player is meeting the defeseman at full speed. You cant interfere with the player when he dumps the puck into the zone so the player is meeting the defensemen and the boards at full speed.

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12-27-2011, 02:58 PM
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every time someone asks me if the Bruins can repeat, I tell them if they avoid injuries and specifically concussions they have a great chance...its crazy what is happening

I agree with Shawn Thornton and those here who say the equipment needs to be adjusted- the speed these guys move now is just incredible compared to even 15 years ago; add in the rule changes, the equipment, the shape these guys are in, and the mindset of 'seek and destroy' often preached by coaches, demanded by fans, and the money it brings and you have led to destruction.

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12-27-2011, 02:59 PM
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thegodfather
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
NHL wanted a faster game with less contact away from the puck.

You cant back check anymore, so the player is meeting the defeseman at full speed. You cant interfere with the player when he dumps the puck into the zone so the player is meeting the defensemen and the boards at full speed.
So a fix for that would be to get rid of the trapazode that limits where the goalie can play the puck.

But there should be less contact away from the puck, yes or no ?

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12-27-2011, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMC View Post
Last night a player from the Minnesota Wild got hit head first into the dasher from behind. After laying on the ice for a few minutes he was taken to the quiet room.

I don't know the guy's name but I won't be surprised if he is on the list next. The guy who hit him got a 5 minute major and was tossed from the game.

For the 5,000,000 th time something has to be done with the dashers/glass, as well as the equipment the guys wear. They all play a part in the concussion problem.
What do you propose be done to the glass and dashers ?

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12-27-2011, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
NHL wanted a faster game with less contact away from the puck.

You cant back check anymore, so the player is meeting the defeseman at full speed. You cant interfere with the player when he dumps the puck into the zone so the player is meeting the defensemen and the boards at full speed.
This goes along with the equipment, no redline, the trapazoid as mentioned and the lack of respect on the players part. I'm not sure how they go back without big changes.

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12-27-2011, 03:21 PM
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Start with a radical change in equipment composition. Make everybody carry a 40 pound backpack.

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12-27-2011, 03:29 PM
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Therick67
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Originally Posted by BNHL View Post
Start with a radical change in equipment composition. Make everybody carry a 40 pound backpack.
make the skates heavier

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12-27-2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Therick67 View Post
This goes along with the equipment, no redline, the trapazoid as mentioned and the lack of respect on the players part. I'm not sure how they go back without big changes.
If there was no trapezoid, I doubt Bergeron gets boarded the way he did.

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12-27-2011, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
If there was no trapezoid, I doubt Bergeron gets boarded the way he did.
I agree. That IMO looks like the place to start.

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12-27-2011, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
People are saying removing red line has caused more speed in neutral zone and has caused higher impact collisions. Not saying put the two-line pass rule back, but i'm sure something can be done to keep a good balance.
i started a thread on this ages ago...and the general consensus seemed to be that with a centre red line in play...it allowed the defensemen to be more decisive and step up hard into oncoming forwards. i think there are more suicide passes with the red line as well. i seriously doubt reinstating the two-line pass will provide any help.

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12-27-2011, 04:00 PM
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teams are just more aware and aren't letting players play through minor concussions anymore. I don't think they are happening more often... I just think that we're hearing more about them

It's good for the players and other than tweaking equipment to help soften impacts.. there's not much you can do without drastically altering the game.

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12-27-2011, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
every time someone asks me if the Bruins can repeat, I tell them if they avoid injuries and specifically concussions they have a great chance...its crazy what is happening

I agree with Shawn Thornton and those here who say the equipment needs to be adjusted- the speed these guys move now is just incredible compared to even 15 years ago; add in the rule changes, the equipment, the shape these guys are in, and the mindset of 'seek and destroy' often preached by coaches, demanded by fans, and the money it brings and you have led to destruction.
I agree - if you soften the equipment (more than they already have) then the players will self-regulate the speed at which they barrel into other players, for fear of injuring themselves. You can also reduce the footprint/area of the shoulder and elbow pads, which might save some heads. I know they have already introduced softer shoulder and elbow pads, and smaller shoulder pads, but that doesn't mean that they can't do more in this area, by reducing the stiffness and footprint even more. The NHLPA is going to squawk, of course, but at some point you'd hope they are willing to accept more shoulder injuries in exchange for fewer concussions. It is encouraging to see that the league is at least looking into this aspect more:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle2270267/

From that December 13, 2011 article:

While many of the hard plastic caps on the elbow pads and shoulder pads in use now were eliminated or covered by softer padding, King (Kris King, NHL senior VP of hockey operations) said the league is testing a prototype now from equipment manufacturer CCM that has “very limited hard plastic. The rest is different grades of foam.”

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12-27-2011, 05:11 PM
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BMC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
What do you propose be done to the glass and dashers ?
The dashers and boards should be made of the same shock absorbing material that NASCAR has tested at some tracks- the material absorbs all of the collision and dissipates it throughout the panel, so none of it transfers back to the player hitting it.

As for the glass IMO right now the panels are too rigid- they should be more flexible. If that means they break more often so be it.

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12-27-2011, 05:32 PM
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I'm absolutely on board for changing the pads to go back to softer, more absorbent pads. I think that's easily one of if not the biggest factor in concussions right now. It used to hurt to make the hits we see today, but with everyone wearing ultralight body armor with hard cap plastic on the impact points, you don't feel a thing but your opponent gets it a hundredfold worse.

If it hurt the players that were dishing out the hits as well, guaranteed we'd see fewer of them, and players would be safer.

I do think the spike in concussions is also obviously related to the fact that they are being diagnosed today, when in the rest of he eras, even post-lockout initially, they really never were. It almost seems oversimplified, but the fact that concussions run a large gamut and they are being identified readily is a big part of why the numbers seem abnormally high. You can't go back and look at every season's old injury report, but I'd be willing to bet these numbers would be higher, but not as dramatically, if every concussion suffered in previous eras was identified as such. It's always been a game of violent collisions.

Making the ice larger is not an option for a couple of reasons. First, the factual reason that it would cost far too much money to retrofit arenas to allow for Olympic-sized ice, and the owners would lose far too much money by removing a half-dozen rows of their most expensive seats. Counteracting that would cause the price of tickets to skyrocket to numbers well beyond what we are already paying, which are inflated to being with.

Second, the reason of opinion is that to me, the game is much worse on larger ice. The NHL is the NHL because of the ice surface it's played on. Olympic hockey is a nice treat once every four years, but on a game-by-game basis, that would get old very fast. You have to remember that not only is it not seen but once every four years, it's also got the best possible players on a small number of teams. Regular NHL rosters on that surface would be terrible. It would eliminate physical play, which is not what it necessary, and would hurt TV ratings.

I'm for changing the pads, and removing the trapezoid. Those two changes would help greatly for the better IMO, and NHL hockey would still be NHL hockey.

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