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Old
12-27-2011, 05:32 PM
  #26
BigBadBruin8
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I'm absolutely on board for changing the pads to go back to softer, more absorbent pads. I think that's easily one of if not the biggest factor in concussions right now. It used to hurt to make the hits we see today, but with everyone wearing ultralight body armor with hard cap plastic on the impact points, you don't feel a thing but your opponent gets it a hundredfold worse.

If it hurt the players that were dishing out the hits as well, guaranteed we'd see fewer of them, and players would be safer.

I do think the spike in concussions is also obviously related to the fact that they are being diagnosed today, when in the rest of he eras, even post-lockout initially, they really never were. It almost seems oversimplified, but the fact that concussions run a large gamut and they are being identified readily is a big part of why the numbers seem abnormally high. You can't go back and look at every season's old injury report, but I'd be willing to bet these numbers would be higher, but not as dramatically, if every concussion suffered in previous eras was identified as such. It's always been a game of violent collisions.

Making the ice larger is not an option for a couple of reasons. First, the factual reason that it would cost far too much money to retrofit arenas to allow for Olympic-sized ice, and the owners would lose far too much money by removing a half-dozen rows of their most expensive seats. Counteracting that would cause the price of tickets to skyrocket to numbers well beyond what we are already paying, which are inflated to being with.

Second, the reason of opinion is that to me, the game is much worse on larger ice. The NHL is the NHL because of the ice surface it's played on. Olympic hockey is a nice treat once every four years, but on a game-by-game basis, that would get old very fast. You have to remember that not only is it not seen but once every four years, it's also got the best possible players on a small number of teams. Regular NHL rosters on that surface would be terrible. It would eliminate physical play, which is not what it necessary, and would hurt TV ratings.

I'm for changing the pads, and removing the trapezoid. Those two changes would help greatly for the better IMO, and NHL hockey would still be NHL hockey.

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Old
12-27-2011, 06:36 PM
  #27
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I may be a heartless bastered but dam is this hockey product GREAT. I dont want the game to change. I feel bad for the players but it's the job they picked.
Change equipment and wear it properly, that may help.


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Old
12-27-2011, 08:39 PM
  #28
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Go back to the pre-Bettman days.

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Old
12-27-2011, 09:35 PM
  #29
Lam7825
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I was thinking maybe a slightly larger ice surface- not quite the Olympic size, but some sort of hybrid NHL size? I understand the owners don't want to eliminate any high priced glass seats. But, there are 2 goalies, 10 skaters and 4 officials skating on that ice now- and I'd bet the average size of players must be bigger now than let's say 25 years ago. That's a lot of traffic on the same size ice sheet, and at a faster speed too.

Taking out the red line opened up the game. But I don't see the NHL reversing that decision- they want more scoring.

Maybe the equipment needs to be re-examined. Softer pads, properly worn helmets and smaller pads maybe? That hit on JM Liles illustrates the need for wearing the helmet properly. But then, maybe that same properly-worn helmet doesn't protect Savvy or Sid from direct hits to the head. Is it the hard pads? Ask Claude Giroux- his own teammate kicked him in the back of the head to cause his concussion. You can't ask Simmonds to wear fuzzy slippers with skate blades. I can see too how the new composite sticks give the puck more speed now, so injuries caused by
faster pucks make sense.

Or is it the boards being too rigid? I always hear complaints about the stiff boards/glass in Montreal and other arenas. The NHL made a pretty quick change by incorporating those rounded boards at the benches to reduce the Pacioretty type hits. A lot of injuries are coming from hits along the boards.....but not all of them. Open ice hits are accounting for a lot too (Rome v. Horton, Cooke v. Savard, etc). So, you can't blame the rigid boards/glass for a mid-ice collision.

Is it lack of respect for the opponent? This year's obvious league focus on suspending head hunters is costing lots of man games and money, but is it changing the game?

I don't see an easy answer to this one. Maybe we'll have to wait and see in a couple of years how this season's focus on reducing head hits and other dangerous hits with suspensions and fines will affect the game of the future.

Maybe take out those stupid trapezoids, and let the goalies go back to the corners. Marty Brodeur is getting close to retiring, so the NHL can retire that rule too.

Lauri from Tacoma

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12-27-2011, 09:47 PM
  #30
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Make it a penalty to not have a mouth guard in, and make it a penalty to not have your helmet properly strapped on. Also get better helmets. The current helmets don't even look as safe as modern bicycle helmets.

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12-27-2011, 09:50 PM
  #31
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Speed of the players today + Contact= Concussions

Nothing worse than going full speed....watching a pass....then BANG.....lights out ...ears ringing....

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Old
12-27-2011, 10:08 PM
  #32
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I'm wondering why the league hasn't put together a study on how each concussion has happened. I know some are not obvious, but for the most part you can pinpoint the hit.

Lots of speculation here about the boards, seamless glass (which I think no longer exists in any arena), rink size pads, player speed, etc.

It would be nice to see a rundown of each incident to see the approximate speed of the player; what body part hit the head; where the player was on the ice; and whether the head was targeted and could have been avoided.

I think a combination of better equipment (better helmets, and shock-absorbant elbow and shoulder pads, and mandatory double mouthpieces) and player awareness would reduce the number of concussions. I still don't understand why the PA won't step in and mandate changes for their membership.

If this high a percentage of players were getting cancer or brain tumors, there would be a public outrage.

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12-27-2011, 11:01 PM
  #33
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1. Seemless glass, better viewing for the premium ticket holders, murder on player's bodies. I'm willing to bet 70 - 80 percent of the head to glass concussion don't happen if the old style glass with give was still in place.
2. No red line, faster game = more high impact collisions. Better skating dmen a far more adept at open ice contact.
3. No whistle offsides - again bigger players in motion more often = more plays with speed and thus collisions.
4. Player size/fitness - Bigger men, nuff said.
5. Medical Awareness - Better attention after getting "dinged".
6. Sadly yes, the instigator rule. Savard gets taken out, Crosby goes down initially with a questionable amount of contact. These players that crossed the line would have only done so once or twice. In Cooke's case he is a ten time offender to say the least.

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Old
12-27-2011, 11:15 PM
  #34
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Hm... Liles, Gagne, Weber, Crosby, Pronger, Savard, and Michalek didn't get the memo that fighting is the only inextricable link hockey has to concussions.

My fixes: Reg Dunlop/ Mark Recchi shoulder pads and make the rink 94' wide (like Finland, not IIHF).

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12-28-2011, 12:26 AM
  #35
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There's a few ideas, changing equipment, the red line, the size of the rink but there's also other safety calls they should make. Hybrid icing, making not a huge area of concussions but a dangerous play IMO.

One part of the ice I really don't like is behind the net. Guy skates by and gets hammered. We saw it with cole on larsson and although I didn't think he meant it, it's such a dangerous area of the ice. Guys get lined up and hammered and they are none the wiser. These are other, less frequent areas of the ice(this and hybrid icing) but if you dont wanna go dramatic, little things to minimize the damage would be great. I'm not sure what i'd propose for these situations but it's obviously something that can be dangerous.

The big open ice plays are a tough sell to get out of the game. You expand the ice and guys will hit less. Maybe we can add a little bit of space, but how much would it help? A little maybe.

It's such a tough call but i'm glad theres that summer session about testing out new rules. It really is a great tool. I was surprised they didn't add hybrid after the session though.

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Old
12-28-2011, 10:51 AM
  #36
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Gagne should have retired a long time ago instead of insisting on risking his life on the ice. Any breeze on him is a risk of concussion. He can't score anymore and he's a liability every time he is on the ice.

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Old
12-28-2011, 10:59 AM
  #37
Morris Wanchuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baddkarma View Post
1. Seemless glass, better viewing for the premium ticket holders, murder on player's bodies. I'm willing to bet 70 - 80 percent of the head to glass concussion don't happen if the old style glass with give was still in place.
2. No red line, faster game = more high impact collisions. Better skating dmen a far more adept at open ice contact.
3. No whistle offsides - again bigger players in motion more often = more plays with speed and thus collisions.
4. Player size/fitness - Bigger men, nuff said.
5. Medical Awareness - Better attention after getting "dinged".
6. Sadly yes, the instigator rule. Savard gets taken out, Crosby goes down initially with a questionable amount of contact. These players that crossed the line would have only done so once or twice. In Cooke's case he is a ten time offender to say the least.
Didn't know the instigator rule would make players unable to turtle.

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Old
12-28-2011, 11:47 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Kiss The Ring View Post
Gagne should have retired a long time ago instead of insisting on risking his life on the ice. Any breeze on him is a risk of concussion. He can't score anymore and he's a liability every time he is on the ice.
How is what happened to gagne any different than what happened to bergeron? Granted, bergeron is still producing but he's also 5 years younger. Considering his history it's not unlikely he gets another concussion by the time he's gagne's age(31, so 5 years). It's not to say bergeron should retire, it's to say you can't really blame a guy like gagne. Hockey is all these guys know and most don't retire based on the possibility they get concussed. These guys are very competitive and no one thinks about getting concussed until it happens.

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Old
12-28-2011, 12:13 PM
  #39
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Making the gear "softer" is an alternative but you defenitely would see a downturn in Doak-like blocking of Chara slapshots....I know I wouldn't even if was wearing medieval armour above my under armour.

The red line is going to stay "missing". It helped get rid of the trap and home run passes are too exciting to limit.

I'm all for getting rid of the trapezoid. If the NHL wants a bump in scoring, why penalize a good puckhandling GK? At the very least it would discourage the soft lob and chase into the corners and increase stickhandling into the zone a little bit, exhibiting skill a lttle more on display as opposed to kamikaze rushes into the corners if an adroit GK could trigger an odd man out transition?

I like making the surface a little bit wider, (5 or 6 ft?) But it is not financially feasible but these other suggestions would be minor tweakings enhancing the game a little wothout scramblimg some brains.


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Old
12-28-2011, 01:37 PM
  #41
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I wonder how much it would cost to remove one row of seats in the arena's. I'm sure the owners could bump the price of the "new" front row seats to make the money back.
Whatever the cost is, I'm sure it worth it to have guys like Crosby & Savard playing..

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12-28-2011, 01:51 PM
  #42
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Hmmmmmm, none of these guys have ever been in a fight as far as I know so Adam Prouteau and Damian Cox will have to find something else to demonize regarding concussions.

Smaller equipment, when I played my shoulder pads were tiny, now shoulder pads look like something from Mad Max. Bring back the red line but put a ref off ice to call the trap, if you see Tampa with 5 guys standing in the nuetral zone give them a warning then start with delay of game penalties. The game will slow down but there should still be more scoring with the trap eliminated.

I fear Bettman will instead eliminate fighting and hitting and then play to empty buildings. I will be interested to see if the soccer moms the NHL has always craved as fans will show up with no hitting and fighting.

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12-28-2011, 01:53 PM
  #43
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The changes in equipment are on the elbow and shoulder pads, I hope these guys are not blocking shots with those areas of the body, especially Chara's and Weber's shots.
"Doak-like" means going in head first....not that there were too many using this technique nowadays....but I'm sure there may be more than a few teammated who'll be a tad reluctant in setting screens.

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12-28-2011, 01:56 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
The changes in equipment are on the elbow and shoulder pads, I hope these guys are not blocking shots with those areas of the body, especially Chara's and Weber's shots.

I wonder how much it would cost to remove one row of seats in the arena's. I'm sure the owners could bump the price of the "new" front row seats to make the money back.

The one thing about the bigger ice surface is it would take the none skaters out of the game. The so called cement heads like Orr.
forget the rink dimensions- they'll just have more room to build up speed; it will be equipment and the removal of the trapezoid or some adjustment to the surface (they'll add 5 % sand to the ice when they put it down, or small speed bumps by the goal....the helmets will be better, the shoulder and elbow pads redone.

there are still to many knuckleheads who try to blow up guys with no other purpose- take away the trapezoid where skaters know the goalie could be near by, and make the shoulder pads more leather and less armor and guys will subconsciously/naturally drop a gear on the forecheck...and at the same time legislate against teams playing a zone instead, once the hard forecheck is gone....it can be done, we are not talking brain surgery here- yet

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12-28-2011, 02:05 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
The changes in equipment are on the elbow and shoulder pads, I hope these guys are not blocking shots with those areas of the body, especially Chara's and Weber's shots.

I wonder how much it would cost to remove one row of seats in the arena's. I'm sure the owners could bump the price of the "new" front row seats to make the money back.

The one thing about the bigger ice surface is it would take the none skaters out of the game. The so called cement heads like Orr.
Its not that easy though.

Most of these arenas are designed to slope to where the boards are currently. If you widen the rink without changing the pitch, which ever row of seats you widen to will be at a higher lever. You widen a rink in a steep arena like Montreal, its possible that the feet of your new first row would be at glass level. Even worse, arenas would be like MSG where there are no glass seats.

They talked about this on hot stove a few weeks ago. 10-15 MIL per arena to widen the ice. Add that to the fact a lot of NHL teams dont even own their arena, and it would mess with concert/basketball sight lines, I don't see wider ice every happening in existing arenas.

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Old
12-28-2011, 03:12 PM
  #47
The Special K
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I think that changing the pad would make a difference, but I think that biggest change needs to be a cultural one.
The biggest issue for me is that players have no respect nor care for the welfare of of their colleagues anymore. It is a sign of the times when people have no regard for others anymore.
I have a feeling that the head injuries would continue regardless of pad change.

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12-28-2011, 03:19 PM
  #48
Morris Wanchuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Special K View Post
I think that changing the pad would make a difference, but I think that biggest change needs to be a cultural one.
The biggest issue for me is that players have no respect nor care for the welfare of of their colleagues anymore. It is a sign of the times when people have no regard for others anymore.
I have a feeling that the head injuries would continue regardless of pad change.
Please show me examples of how players back in the day cared for the welfare of each other? I don't buy it for a second.

They just did not have the equipment that allowed them to destroy each other.

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12-28-2011, 03:43 PM
  #49
XtremeofParanoia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baddkarma View Post
1. Seemless glass, better viewing for the premium ticket holders, murder on player's bodies. I'm willing to bet 70 - 80 percent of the head to glass concussion don't happen if the old style glass with give was still in place.
2. No red line, faster game = more high impact collisions. Better skating dmen a far more adept at open ice contact.
3. No whistle offsides - again bigger players in motion more often = more plays with speed and thus collisions.
4. Player size/fitness - Bigger men, nuff said.
5. Medical Awareness - Better attention after getting "dinged".
6. Sadly yes, the instigator rule. Savard gets taken out, Crosby goes down initially with a questionable amount of contact. These players that crossed the line would have only done so once or twice. In Cooke's case he is a ten time offender to say the least.
The instigator rule, or more specifically, players policing themselves on the ice, becomes irrelevant when your teammate is lying on the ice. The first thought every player should have when they see that is to help get the trainers and doctors to that player as soon as they can, rather than hit a guy in the helmet a few times, wrestle him to the ice and call it justice served.

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Old
12-28-2011, 04:07 PM
  #50
The Special K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
Please show me examples of how players back in the day cared for the welfare of each other? I don't buy it for a second.

They just did not have the equipment that allowed them to destroy each other.
I would love to, but sadly I have a life and as such, better things to do. So you will have to find your own evidence....I am not your lackey.

sorry for the inconvenience.

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