It's funny that you say "at the expense of team performance" and yet you let the fact that the 2nd best powerplay in the league, is run by a recently signed American gentleman, slide.
Actually yes RW basically did hire the assistants since he was part of the interview process and he had to approve of them. That was stated at the time of both hires.
Not getting involved in the debate but just wanted to state that.
Minority? You must not live in the Downtown core because everyone is snapping that Wilson got an extension. They want Burke GONE! I'm sure its like that all over the GTA.
Minority? You must not live in the Downtown core because everyone is snapping that Wilson got an extension. They want Burke GONE! I'm sure its like that all over the GTA.
Burke and Wilson's system does not work against good teams at %rate which is even remotely acceptable. I understand there is a rebuild going on, I am aware of this. Unfortunately as entertaining as pond hockey is to more seasoned folk, the sloppy unstructured play does not cut it.
Completely agree with you bud. When we play against teams that have a good defensive system, we've been getting absolutely owned.
Take the game against the Panthers as an example. Florida clogs up the middle of the ice perfectly, yet every single time we tried breaking into the offensive zone, we would go up the middle and turn over the puck.
Watching the Leafs play is literally like watching a junior rec. league game. "Just do what you gotta do boys, screw offensive strategies, just believe in yourselves b/c we believe we've got enough talent to win this still."--When we play teams that have a working system (i.e. boston, florida), we don't even look like a professional hockey club.
They are both wide open to criticism. Some are unjust. I feel the need to keep it real.
If you weren't such a *****, I might discuss the parts of your argument I find correct. But, you throw out so much crap and personal opinion, and present it as fact, you only get the angry minority to go to battle with you.
The rest just play hackey sack with you.
Which best describes the leafs?
2-1-2 Forecheck with a Pinch on a Wide Rim
1-2-2 Hockey Trap with a Swing
1-2-2 TRAP FORECHECK WITH A SWING
1-2-2 Trap
2-1-2 with a Pinch on a Wide Rim
1-3-1 Forecheck
Completely agree with you bud. When we play against teams that have a good defensive system, we've been getting absolutely owned.
Take the game against the Panthers as an example. Florida clogs up the middle of the ice perfectly, yet every single time we tried breaking into the offensive zone, we would go up the middle and turn over the puck.
Watching the Leafs play is literally like watching a junior rec. league game. "Just do what you gotta do boys, screw offensive strategies, just believe in yourselves b/c we believe we've got enough talent to win this still."--When we play teams that have a working system (i.e. boston, florida), we don't even look like a professional hockey club.
Yeap.
Those that have debated that we need a more defensive minded coach then Wilson feel at the core that is the problem. We play too high risk game where every turn over/mistake costs us. We are simply not that good of a team or skilled to play that style. It doesn't mean we play trap no, but we need to have some sort of defensive system.
If people really love Wilson or think his great for the team then good for them man, I am tired of arguing when I know what the outcome will be anyways.
Now if Burke is able to get a Ryan/Staal/Getzlaf or another high caliber player then we may be one step closer to being able to legitimately being able to play this high risk/ high reward style.
2-1-2 Forecheck with a Pinch on a Wide Rim
1-2-2 Hockey Trap with a Swing
1-2-2 TRAP FORECHECK WITH A SWING
1-2-2 Trap
2-1-2 with a Pinch on a Wide Rim
1-3-1 Forecheck
Actually yes RW basically did hire the assistants since he was part of the interview process and he had to approve of them. That was stated at the time of both hires.
Not getting involved in the debate but just wanted to state that.
There is hope for you, I don't know all the answers either but for next game I would like for you to pay attention to what people who do not have the puck are doing. Really, it sounds odd but watch away from the play see the whole picture, the whole game as best you can on TV. The only way to see the game is to not watch the puck, you know how they say keep your head up? For watching a game you do the same but you focus on everyone where-as many just focus on man with puck as a single entity.
I explained that to some of my friends and they started to understand hockey better and really appreciated the game more. It gets kind of frustrating at first for some people though, some of your favorite players that just happened upon the scene are noticed standing in one spot not even trying to get a better position. Or you see Defense not moving laterally with a play for better shooting position... Or Phaneuf telegraphing a one timer into someones SHINPADS! (all the time))
*Add* When the view of the camera is off the puck I start to imagine where the players will be, its like secondary tracking of the play in my mind. So I am always anticipating passes. It's not hard to do can be learned by everyone you just need to want to and when the camera pans over and your imagination is wrong...You get the joy of saying to yourself well why the hell did you not get against the boards and anticipate the puck being shot around the boards.
Last edited by theremedial: 12-28-2011 at 01:32 AM.
2-1-2 Forecheck with a Pinch on a Wide Rim
1-2-2 Hockey Trap with a Swing
1-2-2 TRAP FORECHECK WITH A SWING
1-2-2 Trap 2-1-2 with a Pinch on a Wide Rim
1-3-1 Forecheck
But it is not always clear or executed as such. Very tough systems to play. Occasionally they fall off into the 3rd option by mistake or fatigue.
There are around maybe 5-10 of us here who express the same opinion and argue it religiously. I am the most arrogant though. You are far to polite I feel but you agree and see so I don't hold it against you.
Fact: Wilson will go down in history as the most losing coach in the history of the NHL. (*Unless he is terminated and does not get hired again before next season is out*)
You can't become the most losing coach without coaching a lot. A coach who gets hired a lot must be hired for a reason, no? Look at Cujo, a man who dominated as a Leaf and Oiler for many years, is now the most losing goalie in the history of the NHL. That's because he played so many games, not because he was terrible.
My bad, but Burke himself has stated when they are close to either trading for a player or signing one via UFA that they do ask Wilson for his input and what he thinks of that player (which makes sense).
So Wilson does have great input but I wouldn't go as far to say he chooses the team.
You can't become the most losing coach without coaching a lot. A coach who gets hired a lot must be hired for a reason, no? Look at Cujo, a man who dominated as a Leaf and Oiler for many years, is now the most losing goalie in the history of the NHL. That's because he played so many games, not because he was terrible.
Bowman is the most losing coach, he did it in 31 seasons... Wilson is poised to complete the objective? in under 20. With no cups.
*ADD* I am a Leaf Fan, Detroit is my most hated team ever in the world! I was at the game with Domi ~ Probert like 5 fights or something, but I am doing this out of protest of the Wilson extension.. It hurts wearing the shameful Red, but I respect them and their coach.
Bowman is the most losing coach, he did it in 31 seasons... Wilson is poised to complete the objective? in under 20. With no cups.
*ADD* I am a Leaf Fan, Detroit is my most hated team ever in the world! I was at the game with Domi ~ Probert like 5 fights or something, but I am doing this out of protest of the Wilson extension.. It hurts wearing the shameful Red, but I respect them and their coach.
it's irrelevant scrutinizing his history
more than anything i'm convinced that him and his system do not work with THIS group of players and do not optimize their performance...
my brother was watching the game with me tonight and he's a casual hockey fan at best. first thing he noticed was how loose the leafs are defensively and how they allow so many 2 on 1s, even on their pp.
I'll say it again, I'm not a big fan of Wilson's coaching but did people really expect the Leafs to finish above 6th in the conference? Let's get realistic people.
I'll say it again, I'm not a big fan of Wilson's coaching but did people really expect the Leafs to finish above 6th in the conference? Let's get realistic people.
Pretty much this. Everyone who criticizes Wilson does so with the belief that Toronto is in the top 5 in the Eastern conference.
I'll say it again, I'm not a big fan of Wilson's coaching but did people really expect the Leafs to finish above 6th in the conference? Let's get realistic people.
if you assume we finish 6th then fine, that's one thing
it's not like the leafs are firmly in 6th by any means...
You can't become the most losing coach without coaching a lot. A coach who gets hired a lot must be hired for a reason, no? Look at Cujo, a man who dominated as a Leaf and Oiler for many years, is now the most losing goalie in the history of the NHL. That's because he played so many games, not because he was terrible.
I see what you're trying to say, he must be a good coach if he's coached this many games, right? But I don't think it's that simple...
As well, Mr. Cujo has zero rings on his hand so I wouldn't say he dominated anything to be brutally honest. He was good, arguably our best player in the playoffs, no doubt, but dominant? Come on man. Winning the title is what separates the so-called dominators from everybody else.
I know we shouldn't compare the NBA with the NHL, but take Lenny Wilkens for example. Lenny Wilkens has the most losses as a coach in NBA history, yet he is also the second most winning coach in league history as well... (with only 1 championship might I add)..
Could Ron Wilson be coined the NHL's version of Lenny Wilkens?
Haha, it's fine just watch the game more open to what is happening defensively. My argument is Wilson is teaching the team how to expend energy needlessly. That is why you need a more balanced team, defensive and offensive mindset not just offensive all the time full bore. It doesn't work in the real world unless you have superstars lining the ice.
**Wilson coached during the ties era too!
Of course he did but his career didn't fully encompass that period.
I see what you're trying to say, he must be a good coach if he's coached this many games, right? But I don't think it's that simple...
As well, Mr. Cujo has zero rings on his hand so I wouldn't say he dominated anything to be brutally honest. He was good, arguably our best player in the playoffs, no doubt, but dominant? Come on man. Winning the title is what separates the so-called dominators from everybody else.
I know we shouldn't compare the NBA with the NHL, but take Lenny Wilkens for example. Lenny Wilkens has the most losses as a coach in NBA history, yet he is also the second most winning coach in league history as well... (with only 1 championship might I add)..
Could Ron Wilson be coined the NHL's version of Lenny Wilkens?
Unfortunately goalies can't score. If you made that claim in a sport like tennis then I may side with you, but the fact remains that during the period that Cujo was amazing it was constantly being doled out to Dallas, New Jersey, Detroit and Colorado. It was also the reason why he left for Detroit after he left Toronto.
