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Rangers vs. Capitals. 7:30pm. Verizon Center. 12.28.2011

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Old
12-29-2011, 12:08 PM
  #451
Fitlanbox
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I love OV and am glad to see him have a good game and get 2 points, however I have to agree with txpd, the man is paid nearly 10 mil a year to put up 40+ goals/90+ points every year.

Stop with the rose-tinted glasses people, I know he is in a slump and maybe he is on his way out of it, but until he actually becomes his "old self" and is good for at least a point a night, this contract sucks, whether he is contributing places other than the scoresheet or not. It honestly amazes me that people are thinking that after some improvement under Hunter people are willing to think he is a couple games away from being his old self. Does the end of last season where he was on fire, then proceeded to suck it up again this season not set off alarms for anyone else?

I mean I don't think he should be traded and I don't necessarily think he is done being an annual contender for the Hart, etc. But for what he is being expected to do, this isn't coming close to cutting it.

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12-29-2011, 12:16 PM
  #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
how many goals does stamkos have this season? he is scoring against the same defense.

like i said. it was a fine ov game. that does not diminish the fact that ovechkin is the caps top goal scorer and he is not anymore. this team will not be able to succede with ovechkin playing milan lucic's game. nothing about last night changes that.
Did Stamkos have all his luck scoring all his ES goals from the same spot on the ice, like Ovi did? Easier to defend when they started tripling him on every rush? Or did Stamkos use more parts of the ice, or pass more? Less easy to game plan against triple teaming at ES. Is Tampa's staple ES play him flying with the puck into HIS spot and shooting?

Differently player different team different system.

This team succeeded just last night with Milan wearing 8. We can win games without him being a 50 goal scorer. We have been doing it for some time now.

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12-29-2011, 12:33 PM
  #453
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Stamkos is the absolute prime example of a player that scores the majority of his goals from the same spot of the ice (left circle).

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12-29-2011, 12:50 PM
  #454
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With all his physical gifts and hockey talent at some point it will click. I've seen more signs in this past few bunch of games than I saw all last year. Will he win another Hart? I would gamble no, but at some point the dam will break and he's going to start racking up points like we expect. He might not make the end to end rushes or the Sportscenter highlights but I'm ok with that.

I do still think his playoff numbers will tell the tale if we are lucky enough to get there

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12-29-2011, 12:51 PM
  #455
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he is among the two or three best paid players in the game. if he is being paid to bring a cup, how is he doing?

iirc the caps acquired ward for his playoff chops. best i can tell he has found a spot next to semin and schultz and hamrlik as a failure.
To me, a guy like 52....who has folded in the playoffs, is a guy who needs to step up. You always talk of his "no other player in the league" talent but what has that done in the playoffs? You defend that guy to no end for some reason. His play, when he even gets on the ice, has declined in terms of offensive production significantly. When was the last time he was a point per game player? Yet you still speak of him as if he is. Oh...thats right, he only makes ~5 mil....that doesnt matter then

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12-29-2011, 01:02 PM
  #456
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Love the kneeling keep in by Carlson on Brouwer's goal. Also, love Semin's second goal, kinda just sneaks in.

Actually there are a lot of little things in that game I liked. Like someone else said, if goal tending stays steady, this team could get a good run going.

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12-29-2011, 01:26 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Stamkos is the absolute prime example of a player that scores the majority of his goals from the same spot of the ice (left circle).
Exactly...he has what I call the Lemieux one timer down pat.

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12-29-2011, 02:05 PM
  #458
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* stamkos scores just like Ov. that is why i mentioned him. last season the league applied the ov defense to stamkos after his big first half and his scoring came to a grinding halt. somehow his scoring has resumed while 8 continues to struggle.

* @mothra. i see your line of compare between 8 and 52. the main difference is 10 and 0. the number of years the team is committed to under contract.

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12-29-2011, 02:12 PM
  #459
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At even strength, has the staple play of Stamkos career been him skating with the puck across the blue to his spot, and shooting? Or is his approach to getting to that spot less predictable, a more team based attack.

They are different players.

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12-29-2011, 02:17 PM
  #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
At even strength, has the staple play of Stamkos career been him skating with the puck across the blue to his spot, and shooting? Or is his approach to getting to that spot less predictable, a more team based attack.

They are different players.

He's mainly a shooter. Not too much special about him when he's not open for a one timer.

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12-29-2011, 02:18 PM
  #461
Mothra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
* stamkos scores just like Ov. that is why i mentioned him. last season the league applied the ov defense to stamkos after his big first half and his scoring came to a grinding halt. somehow his scoring has resumed while 8 continues to struggle.

* @mothra. i see your line of compare between 8 and 52. the main difference is 10 and 0. the number of years the team is committed to under contract.
and I see that as a good thing in terms of 8....but thats because I am not assuming that 5 years were a fluke and the last year and a half are the real Ovechkin

I see it as a bad thing for 52 because I dont see the team walking away from him (and they shouldnt) but I dont see him taking some sort of pay cut either. At best I see a Semin move where they do a 1 year deal....but does 52 agree to that?

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12-29-2011, 02:19 PM
  #462
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rh...feel free to just go to youtube. stamkos as a right shot left wing. he scores from ov's spot on a regular basis with the ov like one timer. st louis is his backstrom for catch and shoot chances.

he does not score often off the right. his is not a crease closer either. as i said. the league started using the same coverage on him as they used on ov and his scoring collapse in the second half of last season. somehow its come back this season.

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12-29-2011, 02:33 PM
  #463
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So Boucher is employing some kind of strategy that leaves Stamkos wide open to take one timers, would that be a correct statement to make?

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12-29-2011, 02:33 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
and I see that as a good thing in terms of 8....but thats because I am not assuming that 5 years were a fluke and the last year and a half are the real Ovechkin

I see it as a bad thing for 52 because I dont see the team walking away from him (and they shouldnt) but I dont see him taking some sort of pay cut either. At best I see a Semin move where they do a 1 year deal....but does 52 agree to that?
* 5 years is not a fluke. brady anderson 50 homers is a fluke. that doesnt mean that ov's injuries or defense or motivation or whatever have not reduced him to who he now.
its not a fluke. would you call this past year and a half a slump or a lack of motivation?

* if green plays 10 more games and misses the rest of the season, i would expect him to sign no more than his required qualifying offer. if he plays the final 41 games at 10 goals and 30assists and then has a strong playoffs, i would expect the first half of the season to be forgotten come contract talk.

at present i fully expect him to sign a one year extension unless mcphee insists that he signs a two year.

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12-29-2011, 02:36 PM
  #465
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Ovi sucks. If we trade him we'll be a lot better and win all the cups.

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12-29-2011, 02:41 PM
  #466
Mothra
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
* 5 years is not a fluke. brady anderson 50 homers is a fluke. that doesnt mean that ov's injuries or defense or motivation or whatever have not reduced him to who he now.
its not a fluke. would you call this past year and a half a slump or a lack of motivation?

* if green plays 10 more games and misses the rest of the season, i would expect him to sign no more than his required qualifying offer. if he plays the final 41 games at 10 goals and 30assists and then has a strong playoffs, i would expect the first half of the season to be forgotten come contract talk.

at present i fully expect him to sign a one year extension unless mcphee insists that he signs a two year.
id call it a slump....motivation may be a reason, as could be frustration, confidence, oppostion. Id be more in line with you if he was bad in the playoffs....and while no one looked good against TB (adding to frustration/confidence issues maybe) he ceratinly wasnt a dog or play poorly

I guess what puzzles me with you and the 52/8 thing is you seem to expect Green to bounce back and be the player he was 2 (regular) seasons ago....and at the same time expect Ovechkin to be Lucic for the next 10 years

EDIT:

And remind me what the QO for 52 is? If he is making 5+ mil next season playing like he has for the last 2 (when he actually plays) thats a much bigger problem than 8's salary

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12-29-2011, 02:46 PM
  #467
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Green's QO is 100% of this season's cap hit, so $5.25M

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12-29-2011, 02:50 PM
  #468
ChibiPooky
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I'm fuzzy on the rules... do the Caps have to submit the qo to elect arbitration?

I guess I'm just really worried about what Green's contract is going to look like.

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12-29-2011, 02:54 PM
  #469
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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I'm fuzzy on the rules... do the Caps have to submit the qo to elect arbitration?

I guess I'm just really worried about what Green's contract is going to look like.
He'd be destroyed in arbitration, as they typically use three-year splits. Don't see it happening.

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12-29-2011, 02:57 PM
  #470
RandyHolt
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So Boucher is employing some kind of strategy that leaves Stamkos wide open to take one timers, would that be a correct statement to make?
Yes, I feel like he has probably told Stamkos to not carry the puck to his spot ignoring his wingers, and skating into triple coverage. I feel like his wingers know he will eventually get there. Boucher can go to that play any time in the ozone. We can run that play when we enter only.

Ovi just goes right there. With the puck, upon entry, and usually shoots.

Which one is easier to defend?

The approaches to getting pucks into the gunners hands couldnt be more different.

That said, Dale is changing things up, and so is Ovi. But we need the puck more in others hands upon entry, and then let Ovi go move around in his favorite spots ready to crush it.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 12-29-2011 at 03:03 PM.
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12-29-2011, 02:59 PM
  #471
txpd
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id call it a slump....motivation may be a reason, as could be frustration, confidence, oppostion. Id be more in line with you if he was bad in the playoffs....and while no one looked good against TB (adding to frustration/confidence issues maybe) he ceratinly wasnt a dog or play poorly

I guess what puzzles me with you and the 52/8 thing is you seem to expect Green to bounce back and be the player he was 2 (regular) seasons ago....and at the same time expect Ovechkin to be Lucic for the next 10 years
a couple things. ovechkin did in the playoffs what he had done in the regular season to a great extent. last season ov was 85pts in 79games regular season and 10pts in 9 playoff games. the season before was 109pts in 72games and 10pts in 7 playoff games. before that was 110pts in 79 games and 21pts in 14 playoff games.

if his playoffs to regular season ratios remain constant he will endup with 2 g and 5pts in a 7 game series.

as for 52. he scored a point in each game in the rangers series including a crucial goal. this season he scored 3 g and 6pts in 8 games including the two he was injured in. thats 4g 11pts in his last 16 games including 3 games in which he was injured. the way i read that, green had returned to his 70pt+ production rate when playing. his ability to dress is his issue. not the quality of his play.

i have no reason to believe that a healthy mike green is not a 65pt to 80pt player. his play backs that up. with ov, he is playing and his production has dropped from 109pts to 85pts to a pace for 60pts.

just for comparison. this is like a player with a five year average of hitting .380 followed by .305, followed by .260 at the halfway mark. thats a big slump

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12-29-2011, 03:01 PM
  #472
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He'd be destroyed in arbitration, as they typically use three-year splits. Don't see it happening.
Well crap. 5.25M is a lot of money for a potentially very small number of games... and that's if he doesn't get a raise at all.

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12-29-2011, 03:03 PM
  #473
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If McPhee has a lick of sense, Green will not be back.

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12-29-2011, 03:13 PM
  #474
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So what course of action, then? I see a few options:

1) Try to deal him at the deadline for a high-end rental/pick depending on playoff status

2) Deal his rights after the season ends (at the draft)

3) Let him walk

4) Re-sign him

Am I missing anything?

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12-29-2011, 03:19 PM
  #475
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You play him to the end of the season and see what you have. The options appear after that.

I brought this up yesterday in other thread when Green opened his mouth about his injury. Very dicey situation.

I hope he plays well enough to become sign and tradeable.... to Anaheim.

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