Not to mention Schenn is on the THIRD PAIRING in Toronto, and has been vilified by Leafs' fans all season long.
Their lack of patience with his lack of development is perhaps on rivaled by some of our fans' lack thereof with Bailey's...
Nope, give me a still developing Bailey plus the bounty of other picks and prospects that 2008 blessed us with.
You don't trade down twice, and things just don't work out the same...no Poulin, no Petrov...no Hamonic... Too many what ifs to say we don't get any of them
THIS ARGUMENT IS OVER.
So you were at the draft table with all 30 GMs and knew who was going in each spot? It would still be possible to have at least 2 of Poulin, Petrov, and Hamonic.
Also Schenn is no longer developing but bailey is...
And considering that D men tend to take longer to develop.
I'm indifferent on the '08 draft at the moment, but believe that this will go down as one of the more significant drafts of this rebuild. You can't look at any of the moves (during the draft) as mutually exclusive, in isolation. That said, I am modestly dissapointed in the Bailey pick, considering that many of the draftees taken around his slot are not excelling; however, Hodgson and Wilson seem to be ahead of Bailey, not to mention some of the later guys (e.g. Ennis/Eberle). If he can develop into a top-tier 3rd line center this pick looks better. In that context, b/c position of pick and perception is relative, it's the later picks that will take this draft to a significant level.
Speaking of which, as others have noted, it's encouraging to see a bulk of the later round picks developing at each level. The development/non-development of later round picks can be a huge difference maker in the success of a rebuild. If NYI ever becomes a contender, look to those later round picks as catalysts, but also pieces that help maintain success.
Bailey and Schenn were both rushed into the league and not properly given time to develop. Right now the only reason Schenn looks like a better option is because we have a need at defense right at this very moment. Both of these players will need more time as they were thrown to the fire too early.
Whether their even still on their respective teams or not, I think we're going to have to wait till these guys turn 25-26 to really make an acurate statement. It's not like say compairing Tavares to Hedman, neither Bailey or Shenn has really made a huge impact.
And if we did draft Schenn, and he was strugling and playing a bottom 6 role here right now it would be the same story. I bet you would then have people complaing about the lack of secondary scoring and weakness down the middle and how Wilson would have been the better pick going forward.
And considering that D men tend to take longer to develop.
I'm indifferent on the '08 draft at the moment, but believe that this will go down as one of the more significant drafts of this rebuild. You can't look at any of the moves (during the draft) as mutually exclusive, in isolation. That said, I am modestly dissapointed in the Bailey pick, considering that many of the draftees taken around his slot are not excelling; however, Hodgson and Wilson seem to be ahead of Bailey, not to mention some of the later guys (e.g. Ennis/Eberle). If he can develop into a top-tier 3rd line center this pick looks better. In that context, b/c position of pick and perception is relative, it's the later picks that will take this draft to a significant level.
And last year Hodgson and Wilson were considered busts.
Last year Eberle was better than Tavares (read that on the main board, supported by a lot of people), this year it's different
I really hate the continuous evaluation and scorecard on players, seemingly after every month. (not aimed at you BelovedIsles -- but prevalent on this board, other boards as well)
Is James Van Riemsdyk the next great power forward #1 C? Or is he another Dustin Penner? I've seen both and I cannot see the future.
I would have drafted Hodgson in 2008 because I hated Filatov, I really didn't want a stay-at-home dman at #5, and Hodgson was a guy I saw play and was extremely impressed with. And he would have looked like the completely wrong pick up until a couple a months ago.
We should be thankful that we didn't get Filatov or Beach or Boychuk or Boedker and got a player who AT MINIMUM looks like he can contribute on this team, on any team, at several positions, on the PP on the PK, at ES. If he never achieves his MAX potential (as so few guys ever do) that doesn't mean it was a bad pick.
Once the team gets better (it will eventually happen) than hopefully we'll stop talking about who we could have drafted three years ago. After all the players we've seen come and go (Nilsson, Bergenheim, Tambi, Schremp, O'Marra, Nokelainen, Comeau, Colliton, Joensuu and zillions more) we finally have a first rounder who's actually capable of maintaining a job in the NHL - let's be happy and not worry about what could have been, especially when the "what could have been" is most likely something WORSE, far worse.
We should be thankful that we didn't get Filatov or Beach or Boychuk or Boedker and got a player who AT MINIMUM looks like he can contribute on this team, on any team, at several positions, on the PP on the PK, at ES. If he never achieves his MAX potential (as so few guys ever do) that doesn't mean it was a bad pick.
AGREED!!!!!!
Got to give credit where credit is due and I think the Isles staff actually got one right by moving back and accumulating extra picks.
Speaking of which, as others have noted, it's encouraging to see a bulk of the later round picks developing at each level. The development/non-development of later round picks can be a huge difference maker in the success of a rebuild. If NYI ever becomes a contender, look to those later round picks as catalysts, but also pieces that help maintain success.
I'm glad you kind of caught yourself there, because the turnout of our 2008 draft - regardless of the Bailey vs. Schenn talk - has thus far been MONSTROUS as far as drafts go.
Hamonic and Martin already belong to our group of 3 most untradeable players.
Bailey has been here a while and things are looking real nice with the development of Poulin and Ullstrom.
Our last pick, Spurgeon, is taking a regular shift out in Minnesota.
Donovan, Ness and Dibinedetto are down on the farm and Donovan looks to have the best pro potential of the group, while each could make it in some capacity.
If a guy like Petrov actually comes over and becomes a good player at the NHL level, this draft may go down in the annals as one of the best the NHL has ever seen in the post-expansion era.
Well I fully expect Strome to get his 9 game look with the team to start next season. Whether or not they would plan to keep him past that would hopefully depend on how welll he's played. Though looking at how they handeled Nino this year(low ice, bad linemates, 5 game benching, no WJC's) who knows.
As far as earning the chance to be the leader in the clubhouse going into next fall I'd have to agree with Cizikas. He's had a very productive first pro season so far. Also the longer we go with no re-signing of Frans the more I fell they might be looking to slide Casey into his spot next year. If you can hope to get similar production for less money, well that's Islanders way!
Which if any of our prospects (in all leagues) has the best chance of making the NYI's roster next season (2012-2013)?
I thought De Haan looked a lot more poised in his last call up.He'd have been my choice except a fan who watches the Sound Tigers , says Donovan's development looks ahead of De Haan's at this point.
I'm not sure which of those two youngsters makes the move up from the AHL , but I'll be surprised if we don' t see one of them.
Cizikas is making a real strong case for himself right now. I think most of us had Strome pencilled into that 2nd line spot of the future, but Cizikas is earning himself at least a look.
Purely hypothetical question, but if CC does get the call and excells at this level as well, could he make Strome "touchable?" I know right now everyone sees him as our 2nd line center of the future, but IMO Cizikas has the potential to be a very good NHL player. Most people have him pencilled in as the 3rd or 4th line center of the future, but IMO his potential is much higher than that.
I guess if we wanted to, we could move one to the wing. It's just a lot more fun to discuss trades I guess.
Cizikas is making a real strong case for himself right now. I think most of us had Strome pencilled into that 2nd line spot of the future, but Cizikas is earning himself at least a look.
Purely hypothetical question, but if CC does get the call and excells at this level as well, could he make Strome "touchable?" I know right now everyone sees him as our 2nd line center of the future, but IMO Cizikas has the potential to be a very good NHL player. Most people have him pencilled in as the 3rd or 4th line center of the future, but IMO his potential is much higher than that.
I guess if we wanted to, we could move one to the wing. It's just a lot more fun to discuss trades I guess.
Strome has a much higher upside, especially offensively. Cizikas doesn't have that level of skill.
That said, Cizikas does EVERYTHING well. He's a surefire NHLer IMO, been saying that for the past two years - having seen him in Mississauga. At worst, he'll be a very capable 4th line player in the Kris Draper, John Madden mold.
But he's showing some offensive ability in the AHL, more than I expected, especially this soon, and with little support. So who knows.
I won't write-off Cizikas or limit him in any way, but to suggest he's a replacement for what Strome will HOPEFULLY BRING ONE DAY - well, that's simply way too premature. I'm not suggesting that Strome is untouchable, he's far from proving to be NHL ready as it is. Long way to go for him. Hopefully he gets better at the next level and keeps developing.
And last year Hodgson and Wilson were considered busts.
Last year Eberle was better than Tavares (read that on the main board, supported by a lot of people), this year it's different
I really hate the continuous evaluation and scorecard on players, seemingly after every month. (not aimed at you BelovedIsles -- but prevalent on this board, other boards as well)
Is James Van Riemsdyk the next great power forward #1 C? Or is he another Dustin Penner? I've seen both and I cannot see the future.
I would have drafted Hodgson in 2008 because I hated Filatov, I really didn't want a stay-at-home dman at #5, and Hodgson was a guy I saw play and was extremely impressed with. And he would have looked like the completely wrong pick up until a couple a months ago.
We should be thankful that we didn't get Filatov or Beach or Boychuk or Boedker and got a player who AT MINIMUM looks like he can contribute on this team, on any team, at several positions, on the PP on the PK, at ES. If he never achieves his MAX potential (as so few guys ever do) that doesn't mean it was a bad pick.
Once the team gets better (it will eventually happen) than hopefully we'll stop talking about who we could have drafted three years ago. After all the players we've seen come and go (Nilsson, Bergenheim, Tambi, Schremp, O'Marra, Nokelainen, Comeau, Colliton, Joensuu and zillions more) we finally have a first rounder who's actually capable of maintaining a job in the NHL - let's be happy and not worry about what could have been, especially when the "what could have been" is most likely something WORSE, far worse.
I get what you're saying, but after all this is a prospect message board and there are fanboys, arm chair GMs, and fantasy stat mongers galore, so kinda comes with the territory. I think we've all been guilty of player comparisons, from fans, to commentators (Pierre McGuire says hello), to actual GMs. I guess what I meant about Bailey is that I'd like to see more out of him, but if he ends up to be a top-tier 3rd liner, I'm happy with that. What he COULD be is magnified by NYI's glaring hole on the 2nd line right now. Had he developed, at this point, to be that 2nd-line center he was slated as, this team would be better.
What I was also trying to say (and you pretty much agree with the premise), maybe you missed it, but a lot of this stuff is a matter of relative perception, e.g. one month JvR is the next great powerforward, and the next he's only a 2nd liner; one year Eberle is considered "better" than JT, and so on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt
I'm glad you kind of caught yourself there, because the turnout of our 2008 draft - regardless of the Bailey vs. Schenn talk - has thus far been MONSTROUS as far as drafts go.
Hamonic and Martin already belong to our group of 3 most untradeable players.
Bailey has been here a while and things are looking real nice with the development of Poulin and Ullstrom.
Our last pick, Spurgeon, is taking a regular shift out in Minnesota.
Donovan, Ness and Dibinedetto are down on the farm and Donovan looks to have the best pro potential of the group, while each could make it in some capacity.
If a guy like Petrov actually comes over and becomes a good player at the NHL level, this draft may go down in the annals as one of the best the NHL has ever seen in the post-expansion era.
Yup, absolutely, and if Bailey continues his upward trend, that will further solidify this draft. '09 - '11 is shaping up well too. Looking forward to seeing what '12 brings.
Which if any of our prospects (in all leagues) has the best chance of making the NYI's roster next season (2012-2013)?
Petrov, Czikas & eventhough he's here right now I'll add Rhett to the list as well.
If this whole "i promise" stuff is true regarding Nino, then there's no doubt that Snow will make the same promise to Petrov to get him to come over here. He'll sign him to an ECL but promise him he'll spend the whole year in the NHL.
Casey seems a lock to be the 4th line center, and I personally think Rhett is never going back down to the minors.
Can someone tell me what is normal for prospect development? what I mean is when a team drafts a player from a junior league, does the NHL team leave the development to the OHL or WHL OR does the team get involved in nurturing the player? During the prospects offseason, does that prospect actually go to the NHL organization to workout and get physically and mentally ready or is that left up to either the player and or the junior team to handle?
I would expect for instance that Kabby and Strome would head to NVMC during the summer months to prepare for life after Juniors? The reason I ask is that I don't see much bulking up. I mean Kappy should be much bigger than he is by now. I would expect at the very worst, a player would gain 5 pounds of muscle over the 3-5 months off, if not 10-15 pounds of muscle.
Yup, absolutely, and if Bailey continues his upward trend, that will further solidify this draft. '09 - '11 is shaping up well too. Looking forward to seeing what '12 brings.
In general, A LOT to be happy about with respect to drafting in the Snow era. I'll even go so far as to say that this past draft might end up being the best outside of the aforementioned '08 draft.
Now, I still remain uncertain about some of the moves made (i.e. have never liked how much was given up to get de Haan) and something was clearly weird at the '10 draft (and seeing Jankowski's firing thereafter and the rebound draft in '11, I'm convinced that the situation has been handled), but we've got a lot to be happy about in the 'later round picks' department.
The whole thing is a crap shoot, but when you find NHLers from the third round up on practically a yearly basis, you're doing something real well.
If this whole "i promise" stuff is true regarding Nino, then there's no doubt that Snow will make the same promise to Petrov to get him to come over here. He'll sign him to an ECL but promise him he'll spend the whole year in the NHL.
I was thinking the same thing.
And I can't imagine that Petrov is BEHIND Niederreiter in development. Quite the opposite.
Nino has been doing A OK as a 4th liner in recent weeks and is coming around to the pro game, asserting himself more and more. I can see Petrov making the same type of transition and perhaps even quicker.
Fact is, what he's been doing for parts of 4 years in the KHL certainly has him more NHL ready than Nino's two years of WHL play.
Petrov, Czikas & eventhough he's here right now I'll add Rhett to the list as well.
If this whole "i promise" stuff is true regarding Nino, then there's no doubt that Snow will make the same promise to Petrov to get him to come over here. He'll sign him to an ECL but promise him he'll spend the whole year in the NHL.
Casey seems a lock to be the 4th line center, and I personally think Rhett is never going back down to the minors.
As I said earlier in the thread, I don't think Petrov will sign if we doesn't have atleast one other russian guy in the team. Maybe Nabokov will stay just because of Petrov? If we have to trade for one russian guy, I would like to see Dmitry Kulikov in the team.
And I don't think he will stay in NA if he is forced to play AHL hockey. Then it's better for him to stay in KHL since he will make more money there. Do you guys think he is good enought for the NHL next year? If not, I THINK we can forget about Petrov.
