All along I have believed Nino would be better served in Portland for another year, that said, if we see Nino in Bridge next year that will be a resiliency factor in his development; and he'll be back on track.
At this point, having him in BPort next season for at least half the year would be the right thing to do.
He needs pro ice time in key moments and with scoring responsibilities. So much still needs to become routine before he can be a scorer at this level.
Although I know "squat about hockey" it seems rather logical that a team that drafts at number 5 and selects Nino while players drafted after him including Cam Fowler and Jeff Skinner perform at a decent NHL level while Nino needs additional time made a scouting mistake. Normally you draft the best player at that spot instead of a speculative project. i know my opinion means little but I still feel that Nino is more a drafting mistake as opposed to a developmental mistake.
Well, I can say that many teams don't draft based on what they feel a kid can be for the next three years, but rather what they think he'll be in five or six years.
It doesn't even have to be seen as a project, but rather as interpreting where the guy will be in the nucleas of their team once he's truly a young man.
Right or wrong, this team saw Niederreiter as being a prototype power forward by the time he's 24 when drafting. They felt he'd be a better pro on several levels than either say Fowler, Skinner or Granlund.
It's surely not uncommon for NHL teams to draft in this manner. What's wisest is another thing.
One way or another, it's always bitter to see teams drafting right behind you come up with a kid who immediately makes an NHL impact. Always. Makes you wonder why your team's staff didn't see that coming.
When we've talked about drafts in the past though, I've always felt that Snow's NYI was pretty doggone good (with one exception) with late rounders. Not only were 08 and 09 incredibly fruitious drafts, but this last one could be a real doozy as well. Nonetheless, I've been quite sceptical of their first and second round moves. Other than the no-brainer Tavares, one can readily discuss each of Bailey, de Haan and Niederreiter (we'll leave Nelson out for now since he hasn't yet sniffed pro ice and is actually tearing apart the NCAA in his sophomore year) in a negative manner. Even Strome wasn't the clear-cut hands down guy at 6 this past summer. Fortunately, each has shown tools that display why they were of great 1st round interest, but the tangible success-related results certainly aren't there in any way shape or form.
And the fact of the matter is, had Snow simply taken concensus picks like Schenn/Wilson, Fowler or Couturier in the 08, 10 and 11 drafts, he'd likely have three guys already contributing here more than the guys he did take, albeit we'd never know how they'd have taken to being rushed in the manner Bailey and Niederreiter have been without the necessary veteran support.
Right or wrong, this team saw Niederreiter as being a prototype power forward by the time he's 24 when drafting. They felt he'd be a better pro on several levels than either say Fowler, Skinner or Granlund.
Nino was a solid pick. Big forward, great shot, works hard. The failure is that he's in the wrong league, it wasn't a draft failure at all.
Bringing up Skinner is simply playing the hindsight game. Not fair to Snow or any other GM picking before.
Not sure why everyone's in love with Granlund, he's yet to play a game in the NHL. And Fowler looked good offensively last year, was -1million and has looked way worse this year. I don't see how Nino is deemed (by some, not necessarily you) to be such a bad pick.
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And the fact of the matter is, had Snow simply taken concensus picks like Schenn/Wilson, Fowler or Couturier in the 08, 10 and 11 drafts, he'd likely have three guys already contributing here more than the guys he did take, albeit we'd never know how they'd have taken to being rushed in the manner Bailey and Niederreiter have been without the necessary veteran support.
Can't look at it that way either, not really fair. We could just as easily have Filatov.
The issue is that Snow (more-so Wang) won't supply the players at the NHL LEVEL to allow these young players to develop. So they are rushed into action in leadership roles, when they clearly aren't good enough to do so.
If Brayden Schenn was on the NYI we'd be calling for his head. Same for Cody Hodgson (up until a few months ago). Because they'd be #2 Centres (like Bailey) and with linemates and pressure of scoring - we'd bury them before they turned 21 (like we tried with Bailey).
But these guys are in organizations (Cody, up until he was moved, anyway) that are NOT ASKING them to be anything more than they can be.
"Luckily"(?), Nino's only here for his cap hit, and he's filling a Tim Wallace type role of 7-9min per night, with little expectations. He's not in a top six scoring role disappointing a team that had sights on the playoffs (at least the WORDS out of the GMs mouth said so, rather than the commitment on the personnel).
Your final point about being rushed makes all the difference, in my opinion.
No doubt in my mind that Nino should be in the AHL all year next year. His raw skills are impressive and can really find his game down in the minors.
In theory, I agree. BUT, there is no telling what a young player does with the lessons he is learning throughout THIS season. IF Nino takes this season as a positive learning experience, IF he is of the mindset of, ok, I know what I need to do to compete, the team tells him what he needs to do in the offseason, and he follows it to a T (or even surpasses). He comes into next season, buries a few pre-season goals, his confidence goes through the roof, then there would be no need for the AHL. This is BEST case scenario of course. And he would need top 6 minutes. I'm not worried about the kid, he has looked much better in the second half, and has been a little snake bitten (great saves, hitting posts, etc).
In theory, I agree. BUT, there is no telling what a young player does with the lessons he is learning throughout THIS season. IF Nino takes this season as a positive learning experience, IF he is of the mindset of, ok, I know what I need to do to compete, the team tells him what he needs to do in the offseason, and he follows it to a T (or even surpasses). He comes into next season, buries a few pre-season goals, his confidence goes through the roof, then there would be no need for the AHL. This is BEST case scenario of course. And he would need top 6 minutes. I'm not worried about the kid, he has looked much better in the second half, and has been a little snake bitten (great saves, hitting posts, etc).
I think Nino needs to start saying 'fantastic' more in the way that only he can. FANTASTIC.
The Isles seem to place character very high on their list of attributes for their draft picks. It makes sense because you better have a boatload of character to survive on this team, especially after being rushed IMO. I have faith that he'll be fine and develop into one helluva player.
Not trying to take away from Strome's stats but it's a forward thats been in nets for Erie. Not a 100% sure but the goalie seemed to have gotten hurt just over a minute into the game and the backup must have been sick so center Connor Crisp put the pads on.
scummy move by Niagara, and Strome in particular with his 5 goals to run up the score and pad stats like that..... I mean, after the 10th goal, give it a break...
scummy move by Niagara, and Strome in particular with his 5 goals to run up the score and pad stats like that..... I mean, after the 10th goal, give it a break...
You cant ask players to just stop playing... Its not like they were winding up and taking slapshots from the slot at him, if they happen to score in the normal course of play then so be it... I doubt they went out of their way to humiliate the guy...
The more humiliating thing to do, IMO, would be to severely take down their level of play and try to NOT score indicating they thing the opposition is so far below them they are not worthy of playing them... thats the way I look at it at least
You cant ask players to just stop playing... Its not like they were winding up and taking slapshots from the slot at him, if they happen to score in the normal course of play then so be it... I doubt they went out of their way to humiliate the guy...
The more humiliating thing to do, IMO, would be to severely take down their level of play and try to NOT score indicating they thing the opposition is so far below them they are not worthy of playing them... thats the way I look at it at least
Agreed, letting up may also lead to injuries. These kids play hard and it IS a developmental league.
scummy move by Niagara, and Strome in particular with his 5 goals to run up the score and pad stats like that..... I mean, after the 10th goal, give it a break...
It's dangerous to "ease up" too early in a game. It's a great way to get yourself hurt.
It was 7-4 a little ways into the 3rd period. That's still a hockey game. It's also not like the other team stopped playing. The shots were 46-40! You can't just sit back and watch to see what happens until the last few minutes of the game where you can safely just chip and chase (or back away only when appropriate.)
If you want to blame anyone, blame the coach for putting Strome out with less than 5 minutes left in the game for the last goal.
With that said, they didn't score in the final 3 minutes. They scored twice on what would appear to be quick chances right after an opening faceoff in the 3rd.
If you're going to be annoyed at anything, be annoyed at what brought about the situation. To blame Strome for scoring 2 goals in the 3rd period is a bit ridiculous, especially when the 1st one still mattered.
scummy move by Niagara, and Strome in particular with his 5 goals to run up the score and pad stats like that..... I mean, after the 10th goal, give it a break...
I don't like to see the score run up and players embarrassed,but this is on the Erie gm's shoulders.
The Erie gm has publicly apologized because he knew 2 days before the game, that he had 1 healthy goalie and didn't bring in a healthy backup.
Erie players and fans want to be pissed at someone,be pissed at their gm.
You cant ask players to just stop playing... Its not like they were winding up and taking slapshots from the slot at him, if they happen to score in the normal course of play then so be it... I doubt they went out of their way to humiliate the guy...
The more humiliating thing to do, IMO, would be to severely take down their level of play and try to NOT score indicating they thing the opposition is so far below them they are not worthy of playing them... thats the way I look at it at least
First a Niagara player runs Erie's goalie, making no attempt to avoid contact.. Then Niagara's best player feels the need to net not 3, not 4, but a 5th goal against a team playing without a legit goalie because of that earlier play... call me crazy, but Strome's lucky he didn't take a stick to the face or get run at in some sort of way......... I'm a Strome fan.. I'm an Islanders fan, but in my opinion, it was a scummy move....
For you guys saying you can't stop playing... well when a football game gets out of hand, the respectful thing to do is run the ball... stop passing, and if your up by 30, you don't kick a field goal... so the hockey version of this would be, pass instead of shoot..... or shoot wide.... or don't put Strome out there with a 10 goal lead... Again, having Strome out there with a 10 goal lead is like asking the other team to take a run at him.
It's dangerous to "ease up" too early in a game. It's a great way to get yourself hurt.
It was 7-4 a little ways into the 3rd period. That's still a hockey game. It's also not like the other team stopped playing. The shots were 46-40! You can't just sit back and watch to see what happens until the last few minutes of the game where you can safely just chip and chase (or back away only when appropriate.)
If you want to blame anyone, blame the coach for putting Strome out with less than 5 minutes left in the game for the last goal.
With that said, they didn't score in the final 3 minutes. They scored twice on what would appear to be quick chances right after an opening faceoff in the 3rd.
If you're going to be annoyed at anything, be annoyed at what brought about the situation. To blame Strome for scoring 2 goals in the 3rd period is a bit ridiculous, especially when the 1st one still mattered.
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Mitch
In football, if the Colts were beating the Jets, Giants, Cowboys, etc by 30 points with 5 minutes left, and the Colts still had Manning in the game, and to make it worse, Manning actually went back to pass, what do you think that team would do to Manning??? well, Strome is lucky he didn't lose a few teeth......
but with this particular Erie/Niagara game, I'm just kinda talking out of my ***, because I didn't watch the game, I had no clue what the score was going into the third period, etc.. I just noticed the final score and noticed Strome put in 5.... so as a bunch of you guys have pointed out, maybe it wasn't as bad as the score made it seem.
But come on, Niagara's best player putting in a 5th goal when your up by that many goals.... give me a break.
In football, if the Colts were beating the Jets, Giants, Cowboys, etc by 30 points with 5 minutes left, and the Colts still had Manning in the game, and to make it worse, Manning actually went back to pass, what do you think that team would do to Manning??? well, Strome is lucky he didn't lose a few teeth......
but with this particular Erie/Niagara game, I'm just kinda talking out of my ***, because I didn't watch the game, I had no clue what the score was going into the third period, etc.. I just noticed the final score and noticed Strome put in 5.... so as a bunch of you guys have pointed out, maybe it wasn't as bad as the score made it seem.
But come on, Niagara's best player putting in a 5th goal when your up by that many goals.... give me a break.
Strome probably shouldn't have been on the ice, but he was. Is he supposed to stop playing hard now? If Brandon jacobs is in the backfield and the Giants are up by 40 I still expect him to run hard and gain yardage. Does he have to flaunt about it? No should he be excited about getting another touchdown and celebrate like a d***? No. I don't see anything wrong with what Strome did. His coach put him out so he continued to play hard.
As long as he doesn't celebrate like he won the stanley cup after scoring the 13th goal of the game I don't see anything wrong with it.
The OHL is not a child's game, teams are making hundreds of thousands of dollars off of these kids, it's a business. You don't go out on the ice to have fun, you go out on the ice to win the game.
I may have missed it earlier in the thread, but they can send Nino to Bridgeport next year without exposing him to waivers?
I am no expert with the rules and I could be wrong, but as far as I know, NO EL-contracted player can be exposed to waivers in the course of his ELC. He can be thrown around back-and-forth free of worry with respect thereto.
Again, I could be way off there, but I've never seen an ELCer be picked off of waivers when shipped to the AHL.
First a Niagara player runs Erie's goalie, making no attempt to avoid contact.. Then Niagara's best player feels the need to net not 3, not 4, but a 5th goal against a team playing without a legit goalie because of that earlier play... call me crazy, but Strome's lucky he didn't take a stick to the face or get run at in some sort of way......... I'm a Strome fan.. I'm an Islanders fan, but in my opinion, it was a scummy move....
For you guys saying you can't stop playing... well when a football game gets out of hand, the respectful thing to do is run the ball... stop passing, and if your up by 30, you don't kick a field goal... so the hockey version of this would be, pass instead of shoot..... or shoot wide.... or don't put Strome out there with a 10 goal lead... Again, having Strome out there with a 10 goal lead is like asking the other team to take a run at him.
You are looking at coaching decisions though, not player decisions. If Strome's coach is putting him out there, and not instructing him to simply dump the puck, what is he supposed to do?
You bring up running the ball late in a football game, but if the coach calls a pass, what does the qb do? Does he miss on purpose?
Would you prefer a player who defies his coach mid-game?
I am no expert with the rules and I could be wrong, but as far as I know, NO EL-contracted player can be exposed to waivers in the course of his ELC. He can be thrown around back-and-forth free of worry with respect thereto.
Again, I could be way off there, but I've never seen an ELCer be picked off of waivers when shipped to the AHL.
I believe it's under 180 NHL games and you're waiver exempt with an ELC. I remember Bailey was close to 180 last season before he was sent to play down in BPT, it was their last chance to send him down without clearing waivers.
scummy move by Niagara, and Strome in particular with his 5 goals to run up the score and pad stats like that..... I mean, after the 10th goal, give it a break...
I don't get this. Did Niagra know that Eerie didn't have a backup goalie ? I don't think they ran the goalie on purpose knowing a forward would come in. As far as Strome, I didn't even see him celebrate one of those goals, he skated away silently. Seems like Strome's goals were rebounds, you expect him to shoot wide on purpose ? And who was the first player down ice to tap Eerie's goalie on the head saying nice job ? Strome. I didn't see anything scummy done by Strome.
First a Niagara player runs Erie's goalie, making no attempt to avoid contact.. Then Niagara's best player feels the need to net not 3, not 4, but a 5th goal against a team playing without a legit goalie because of that earlier play... call me crazy, but Strome's lucky he didn't take a stick to the face or get run at in some sort of way......... I'm a Strome fan.. I'm an Islanders fan, but in my opinion, it was a scummy move....
For you guys saying you can't stop playing... well when a football game gets out of hand, the respectful thing to do is run the ball... stop passing, and if your up by 30, you don't kick a field goal... so the hockey version of this would be, pass instead of shoot..... or shoot wide.... or don't put Strome out there with a 10 goal lead... Again, having Strome out there with a 10 goal lead is like asking the other team to take a run at him.
You make it seem like it was some evil attempt to run the goalie on purpose, it happens... from what I saw it didnt even look like the guy was looking at the goalie so he didnt realize he was as far out of the crease as he was... Its not a scummy move
Also, you can still score from running the ball, can you not? Doing what you're implying would mean simply kneeing the ball on every down you have thus preventing someone from scoring at all
Like others have said, dont blame the players for playing, blame the coaches and (better yet) the GM for putting his team in such a crappy position for having only one active goalie on his roster
First a Niagara player runs Erie's goalie, making no attempt to avoid contact.. Then Niagara's best player feels the need to net not 3, not 4, but a 5th goal against a team playing without a legit goalie because of that earlier play... call me crazy, but Strome's lucky he didn't take a stick to the face or get run at in some sort of way......... I'm a Strome fan.. I'm an Islanders fan, but in my opinion, it was a scummy move....
For you guys saying you can't stop playing... well when a football game gets out of hand, the respectful thing to do is run the ball... stop passing, and if your up by 30, you don't kick a field goal... so the hockey version of this would be, pass instead of shoot..... or shoot wide.... or don't put Strome out there with a 10 goal lead... Again, having Strome out there with a 10 goal lead is like asking the other team to take a run at him.
What is wrong with wanting to score goals? Whatever goes on on the ice stays there, that goes for any sport. Just because Strome is going out there trying to do what you are suppose to do out there every shift, which is get a goal, even up three or four goals, doesn't make him a worse person.
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