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Old
12-28-2011, 09:19 PM
  #1
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Francois Allaire

So according to Burke, this guy is the best goaltending coach in the world. Granted ive never played goal, nor have I been coached by this guy obviously, but has he lost his touch? I know he was huge for guys like Roy and Giguere, but of late Toskala, Reimer, Gustavsson have not been able to establish themselves as #1 goalies. Could it be he's trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with bigger guys like Monster into his butterfly style?

We all know Burke sticks with his friends, but is it time to let this guy go and bring in someone else to work with the young goalies in the system?

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12-28-2011, 09:25 PM
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really?

Allaire is a goaltending coach legend. IIRC, he's the reason Gus came here.

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12-28-2011, 09:26 PM
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I know hes a legend, I referenced his past successes. That being said, I dont see any Roy's or in-prime Gigueres from the guys he's coached with the leafs. Thats why im asking, has he lost his touch?

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12-28-2011, 09:28 PM
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I know hes a legend, I referenced his past successes. That being said, I dont see any Roy's or in-prime Gigueres from the guys he's coached with the leafs. Thats why im asking, has he lost his touch?
I think it's more other people have caught up than he's lost his touch. He's still a huge recruitment tool and knows his stuff, so I don't think firing him would do any good.

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12-28-2011, 09:30 PM
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This thread is being watched closely. Seems like a troll, but we'll see how it goes.

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12-28-2011, 09:33 PM
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I think it's like a hundred times likely that Roy and Giguere are just way more talented than Gustavsson, Reimer, and Vesa freaking Toskala.

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12-28-2011, 09:35 PM
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I think it's like a hundred times likely that Roy and Giguere are just way more talented than Gustavsson, Reimer, and Vesa freaking Toskala.
nuh uh, Roy and Giguere sucked, they needed Allaire to be good.

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12-28-2011, 09:35 PM
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This thread is being watched closely. Seems like a troll, but we'll see how it goes.
So I guess I can't start my fire Rick Dudley thread.

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12-28-2011, 09:39 PM
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nuh uh, Roy and Giguere sucked, they needed Allaire to be good.
I guess this is my point. If its talent that makes these guys good, why have Allaire. It cant hurt having him work with these guys, but if theyre not talented enough, or he cant get more out of them to the point that theyre established #1 NHL goaltenders, should we not look into bringing in someone else that can?

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Old
12-28-2011, 09:40 PM
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you know nothing about goaltending and just label a legend as incorrect? it would be like if i started telling a woman she was going about a menstrual cycle the wrong way.

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12-28-2011, 09:40 PM
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He's one of the underrated reasons we have such great goaltending depth now. A lot of the young goaltenders we've signed, have stated he's apart of the reason they've chosen Toronto.

His value to this organization goes beyond just his goaltending instruction.

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Old
12-28-2011, 09:45 PM
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I guess this is my point. If its talent that makes these guys good, why have Allaire. It cant hurt having him work with these guys, but if theyre not talented enough, or he cant get more out of them to the point that theyre established #1 NHL goaltenders, should we not look into bringing in someone else that can?
Giggy wasn't a #1 goalie (or close to it) until he started working with Allaire.

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12-28-2011, 09:55 PM
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Allaire tried to make Gustavsson a butterfly goalie. He isn't.

He's shown he's his own type of goalie (Thomas/Hasek type) last game.

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12-28-2011, 10:14 PM
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Allaire tried to make Gustavsson a butterfly goalie. He isn't.

He's shown he's his own type of goalie (Thomas/Hasek type) last game.
I think I can agree with this, I think Allaire has done much to make Reimer shine, and even outperform his anticipated potential.

However I don't think him and Gustavsson have been working effectively together, at least up until recently. It seems possible that Allaire has began to take a different path with Gustavsson than he had previously, which is showing significant results.

A lot of people think that Wilson favors Reimer unfairly, but I would assume his gameday decisions have a lot more to do with who Allaire thinks is further along in development, and more game ready from day to day.

That's purely speculative though.

I think he should stay, he's the best in the business.

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12-28-2011, 10:20 PM
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Gus attended some Allaire camps before he came over to the NHL as well, so they had a relationship before he became a Leaf.

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12-28-2011, 10:23 PM
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All I can say here is we should get Marc-Andre Fleury!!! Patrick Roy and Jean-Sebastien Giguere were both french and so is Francois Allaire so maybe if we get him a french goaltender they can work their magic

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12-28-2011, 10:32 PM
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Just because we don't get to see what goes on behind the scenes, it doesn't mean that NOTHING goes on.

I don't know what Francois Allaire does, but he's a great goaltending coach. I know this, because there are many people in the league who have said so many things about him, all in the positive.

There have also been several players who have developed an affinity to the guy, and have credited him for their careers.

I can't recall the specifics, but I know Allaire was central in the Loungo Florida-Vancouver bit; somewhere along that axis, Lou refused to sign a contract unless it was guaranteed to him that Allaire was hired. Can't recall whether it was Florida or Vanc, but I'm 100% he demanded.

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12-28-2011, 10:33 PM
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Canucks fan here in peace.

I'm a goalie, and I can tell you Allaire's system is VERY good for developing butterfly-based, "blocking" goalies.

Not everybody can or wants to play strictly that way, Gus being perhaps both the former AND latter. Mitch Korn, the Preds goalie coach, leans more toward an active, athletic style. Gus seems more like a Korn-taught guy.

Neither method is wrong or right, just more effective for some in their system than others.

Luongo was taught by Ian Clark, then Rollie Melanson. He didn't really start to play his best this year until he went back to a mixture of what each teach. I suspect that with Gus, he's keeping what worked under Allaire, but reverting more to who he naturally is style-wise.

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Old
12-28-2011, 10:38 PM
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Thanks for the insight mate, good post - feel free to come by regularly if you don't already. No reason why you should receive any hostility.

I love how rival fans have to come in here and qualify their remarks with "come in peace"

There are so many things to pick fault with on this team, that it amazes me that people choose to focus on Allaire. What's next? The water boy?

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Old
12-28-2011, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Thanks for the insight mate, good post - feel free to come by regularly if you don't already. No reason why you should receive any hostility.

I love how rival fans have to come in here and qualify their remarks with "come in peace"

There are so many things to pick fault with on this team, that it amazes me that people choose to focus on Allaire. What's next? The water boy?
Clearly not getting the right grade gatorade in those bottles

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Old
12-28-2011, 11:10 PM
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Thanks for the insight mate, good post - feel free to come by regularly if you don't already. No reason why you should receive any hostility.

I love how rival fans have to come in here and qualify their remarks with "come in peace"
Thanks!

And you're right. HF has become, at times, 30 countries run by despots all working frantically to develop The Bomb.

It's a game. No reason we can't be civil, considering WE don't decide the outcome, lucky underwear notwithstanding.

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Old
12-28-2011, 11:13 PM
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For what it's worth, it has been reported that both Gustavsson and Toskala refused to listen to Allaire.

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12-28-2011, 11:22 PM
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For what it's worth, it has been reported that both Gustavsson and Toskala refused to listen to Allaire.
Where was it reported that Gus refused to listen to him?


Aren't you the guy who claimed Kadri refused to listen to management's requests earlier today and haven't backed up that questionable claim either?


Last edited by EazyB97: 12-28-2011 at 11:31 PM. Reason: Added Kadri bit
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Old
12-28-2011, 11:25 PM
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For what it's worth, it has been reported that both Gustavsson and Toskala refused to listen to Allaire.
Toskala seemed to feel he didn't need coaching. Gustavsson at least seems willing to work when he's struggling.

When you let in a 200 foot goal, maybe a blocking stance IS a good idea.

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Old
12-29-2011, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinsane View Post
Canucks fan here in peace.

I'm a goalie, and I can tell you Allaire's system is VERY good for developing butterfly-based, "blocking" goalies.

Not everybody can or wants to play strictly that way, Gus being perhaps both the former AND latter. Mitch Korn, the Preds goalie coach, leans more toward an active, athletic style. Gus seems more like a Korn-taught guy.

Neither method is wrong or right, just more effective for some in their system than others.

Luongo was taught by Ian Clark, then Rollie Melanson. He didn't really start to play his best this year until he went back to a mixture of what each teach. I suspect that with Gus, he's keeping what worked under Allaire, but reverting more to who he naturally is style-wise.
You don't have to say that because there is no rivalry

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