Yeah he was. After the the one or two years with Lemieux, Rob Brown spent the rest of his career tearing up the minors, or playing like crap sporadically in the NHL.
That wasn't the result of a lack of skill. You keep trying to convince everyone that Brown was a pylon off of which Mario banked pucks though.
That wasn't the result of a lack of skill. You keep trying to convince everyone that Brown was a pylon off of which Mario banked pucks though.
Brown wasn't a pylon. He had a great brain and good hands. But great brain + good hands + crap skating + lack of size isn't an equation for NHL success (and never has been; it IS an equation that can produce success in the WHL) absent someone like Mario, who could balance the equation for him. The same could never be said of a guy like Kurri or Mess, who are still point-per-game-plus guys during their prime, Gretzky or no.
Brown wasn't a pylon. He had a great brain and good hands. But great brain + good hands + crap skating + lack of size isn't an equation for NHL success (and never has been; it IS an equation that can produce success in the WHL) absent someone like Mario, who could balance the equation for him. The same could never be said of a guy like Kurri or Mess, who are still point-per-game-plus guys during their prime, Gretzky or no.
Though I agree with what you are saying, I don't really see how Messier vs Brown is related to Gretzky vs Lemieux. I think we can all agree that Gretzky had better linemates through the majority of his career. The point is though, that when Gretzky had bums like Semenko and Lumley, he still scored 92 goals and 50 goals in 39 games. He scored 212 pts that year, most of it before Kurri ever played on his regular line, and when Messier was on the 2nd line.
Lemieux had bad teams for a long time, its true. But once he finally had guys like Jagr he still didn't beat Gretzky's records. IMO they were pretty close skill-wise, but Gretzky stayed healthier, played longer, was more driven for success, found more individual success (hart/art ross trophies), more team success (4 cups and another cup run on a sub-par team), more international success (3 Canada Cup golds, 1 silver, 2 Canada Cup MVPs, led all 4 Canada Cups in scoring), and obviously had the better career.
Its easy to make excuses for Lemieux because of health issues, but fact is even when healthy he never managed to beat 50 in 39 or Gretzky's 51 game point scoring streak. Obviously he had fewer opportunities to make a run at these records because of his health, but there were chances none the less.
i went on record and said Mario's 1993 cancer season 160pts in 60gp was the greatest season ever, i changed my mind.... his 2003 season in the height of the dead puck era, playing with a team full of scrubs that traded away all it's stars, bad back and skating like a broken 1975 john deer tractor..he still managed 91 points in 67 games, was leading the league in scoring before he had to shut it down was the most impressive season, something Gretzky can never do.
but seriously...if i was a GM and I had to built a team around 1 guy and I had to choose Mario or Gretzky I'd go with Mario...Gretzky had better numbers but Mario was just a talent that will never come around again...
a friend who doesn't follow hockey & only watches nba once asked me what's Mario Lemieux like? I told him, imagine someone with the size and dominance of a Shaquille O'Neal + the skill and finesse of a Michael Jordan..that is Mario Lemieux.
i went on record and said Mario's 1993 cancer season 160pts in 60gp was the greatest season ever, i changed my mind.... his 2003 season in the height of the dead puck era, playing with a team full of scrubs that traded away all it's stars, bad back and skating like a broken 1975 john deer tractor..he still managed 91 points in 67 games, was leading the league in scoring before he had to shut it down was the most impressive season, something Gretzky can never do.
but seriously...if i was a GM and I had to built a team around 1 guy and I had to choose Mario or Gretzky I'd go with Mario...Gretzky had better numbers but Mario was just a talent that will never come around again...
a friend who doesn't follow hockey & only watches nba once asked me what's Mario Lemieux like? I told him, imagine someone with the size and dominance of a Shaquille O'Neal + the skill and finesse of a Michael Jordan..that is Mario Lemieux.
Gretzky came back from a career-threatening back injury, led the Kings to the SC finals, and scored 40 pts in the post season. He had his share of remarkable accomplishments too, and did a ton of things Lemieux never did. Like set 60 NHL records.
I can see why someone would pick Lemieux - I really can. But if I had 1 guy to build a team around, it would not be Lemieux. He wasn't able to lift the Pens from a basement dwelling team until he got Coffee, Jagr, and others. Gretzky was able to do that in LA, however, taking them from 4th worst to 4th best in a single season, and taking them to a cup within 5 years. He was the greatest player ever when it came to raising the level of those around him (as proven by his numerous assist records). If I have to build a team around 1 guy, it would be the player who is going to make the entire team better, not the one who is going to have a lot of individual success, but nothing else.
I get taking Mario in his prime, but if you know in advance how their careers will turn out and are guaranteed to have them for their entire career, I can't see a single GM ever picking Mario.
i went on record and said Mario's 1993 cancer season 160pts in 60gp was the greatest season ever, i changed my mind.... his 2003 season in the height of the dead puck era, playing with a team full of scrubs that traded away all it's stars, bad back and skating like a broken 1975 john deer tractor..he still managed 91 points in 67 games, was leading the league in scoring before he had to shut it down was the most impressive season, something Gretzky can never do.
but seriously...if i was a GM and I had to built a team around 1 guy and I had to choose Mario or Gretzky I'd go with Mario...Gretzky had better numbers but Mario was just a talent that will never come around again...
a friend who doesn't follow hockey & only watches nba once asked me what's Mario Lemieux like? I told him, imagine someone with the size and dominance of a Shaquille O'Neal + the skill and finesse of a Michael Jordan..that is Mario Lemieux.
you cannot be serious? His 2003 season isn't even as good as Jagr's 2000 season.
I get taking Mario in his prime, but if you know in advance how their careers will turn out and are guaranteed to have them for their entire career, I can't see a single GM ever picking Mario.
You're still looking at about 8 seasons where you'll have a healthy Mario in the playoffs.
With a good team that's essentially 6-8 Championships.
you cannot be serious? His 2003 season isn't even as good as Jagr's 2000 season.
please read my post again, in 2003 the pens already lost Kovalev, Hrdina, Morozov, Lang, Jagr, thus he was playing with team full of scrubs, had a bad back which caused him to skate like a broken lawn tractor and he still lead the league in scoring for most of the year, was on pace for 100 points in the height of the dead puck era and on top of that he was already 38 years old! that's not impressive?
Jagr was still young and was putting up 120 points in 2006, can't compare that to an over the hill Mario.
