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Game #36: vs Columbus, 12/29 (7:30 PM, Fox Sports Southwest, 1310 AM, 104.1 FM)

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Old
12-29-2011, 10:23 PM
  #151
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They need less guys who embrace the #peskystars hype and more guys who just want to be a damn good team.

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12-29-2011, 10:31 PM
  #152
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Oh, the what-ifs that come up after a game like this.

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12-29-2011, 10:34 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
For all the talk about how Gulutzan gets the best out of all of his teams, that's not what I've seen this year. There's no reason why this Dallas club should have one of the worst shot differentials in the entire league. There's no reason the PP should be this bad - not just by straight PP% but actually the worst in the entire league at creating shots and scoring chances.
Come on Alistar you're better than this. The reason is this team isn't nearly as talented as many people think they are. Look at this defense to explain the shot differential. The PP is bad because we are god awful at entering the zone. Absolutely horrible entries combined with guys like Ott, Peterson, Robidas, Sourey etc. getting ice time on said PP.

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There's no reason that they should be outworked nearly every single time they take the ice. I'm sure everyone here would agree that the ratio of games they are satisfied with the effort level to all games is something like 1 in 5.
That's a culture problem that I've been talking about since Turco was here. Look at Morrow to see mailing it in this season. The veterans of this team should lead them but the only one I'm seeing do that is Ribiero and he still has a high percentage of mistakes because at least he takes chances. The sooner the old guard is out the better this club will be.

Quote:
The western conference is waking up and we won't be in the playoff picture for long with the level of performance they've gotten from the players so far. Nieuwendyk needs to make some tough decisions come February - or sooner.
Hi Alistar and catters, you guys have finally seen why was I so down on this club before the season started. If the goaltending is there they can win but when it doesn't show up and there's no effort they are absolutely atrocious.

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Old
12-29-2011, 10:41 PM
  #154
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That....what....awful. Everything about it was terrible.

Only thing positive is we didn't give up 2 powerplay goals yay!

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Originally Posted by Bennrocks View Post
Holy **** 16,555 reported attendance
Thought there was more than that honestly.

2nd time this season I've had people on all four sides of me.

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Old
12-29-2011, 10:46 PM
  #155
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Holy over reaction here but hey that's what this board is for.

Morrow with more dumb, selfish penalties before getting injured, again.

Can we finally admit Ott is not top six material and question again why Niewendyk gave him that extension and raise? He shouldn't be paid damn near 3 million to win faceoffs and hit people. Two goals this month. He's a boat achor to Ribiero. If Dvorak is not back next season he should be on the 3rd line.

Peterson on the powerplay? I'd rather see frigging Dvorak or Fiddler, hell Nystrom has earned pp time than Toby "I can't believe my team gave him a contract" Peterson on the freaking point.

The 4th line is still bad. Someone tell me Wandell's good points because just being fast isn't doing much for him or the Stars at this point.

I'm not sure I heard Eriksson's name 6 times in the entire game and while I love Benn I sure would like to see him and Eriksson on a line centered by a guy like Krejci to completely wreck shop. On nights when they click it is magic. When they don't though they're invisible on the ice. Your first line can't disappear for games at a time.

The Boston game could turn so very ugly. Though most Stars fans have resisted the idea of dealing veterans nights like this may finally open some eyes. The team is mediocre and more of the same that we've seen the last three seasons isn't going to sell tickets or get them in the playoffs. Several players need to go.

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Old
12-29-2011, 11:02 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
Holy over reaction here but hey that's what this board is for.

Morrow with more dumb, selfish penalties before getting injured, again.

Can we finally admit Ott is not top six material and question again why Niewendyk gave him that extension and raise? He shouldn't be paid damn near 3 million to win faceoffs and hit people. Two goals this month. He's a boat achor to Ribiero. If Dvorak is not back next season he should be on the 3rd line.

Peterson on the powerplay? I'd rather see frigging Dvorak or Fiddler, hell Nystrom has earned pp time than Toby "I can't believe my team gave him a contract" Peterson on the freaking point.

The 4th line is still bad. Someone tell me Wandell's good points because just being fast isn't doing much for him or the Stars at this point.

I'm not sure I heard Eriksson's name 6 times in the entire game and while I love Benn I sure would like to see him and Eriksson on a line centered by a guy like Krejci to completely wreck shop. On nights when they click it is magic. When they don't though they're invisible on the ice. Your first line can't disappear for games at a time.

The Boston game could turn so very ugly. Though most Stars fans have resisted the idea of dealing veterans nights like this may finally open some eyes. The team is mediocre and more of the same that we've seen the last three seasons isn't going to sell tickets or get them in the playoffs. Several players need to go.
I wish we could blow it up. I'd keep the following:

Bachman
Benn
Eriksson
Fiddler
Goligoski
Larsen
Lehtonen
Nystrom
Ott
Ribeiro
Souray
Fistric


Ok so that's like half the team but still. I'd keep Ott, just because the fans love him, he's great in the circle and he makes a solid 3rd or 4th liner. Fiddler and Nystrom are fantastic together, I really think that's the biggest part of the chemistry on the 3rd line... Our defense... sucks. The ones I picked really are the only ones worth keeping, Daley is generally not very reliable, Robidas is slow and ineffective, Pardy is one of the worst d-men in the league and Grossman has never really done a whole lot to make me go "Man I wish he'd be on the team for the rest of his career..."

Ribeiro can be so much better but continuing to pair him with the wrong lines is really killing his game, IMO. He's extremely solid on the PK, he's a great puck handler and skater and sometimes gets in those surprise hits that you can't possibly think came from a guy so small.

The problem then becomes, who can they be replaced with? We definitely don't have the depth in the AHL and solid players in free agency don't come cheap!

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12-29-2011, 11:06 PM
  #157
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PP time J.Benn 2.36
pp time S ott 3.13

Theres a problem there.

Jamie Benn is our BEST and most talented player.

29 other teams in the league play their best players on the power play for the majority of the time.

sitting benn on the bench for the first 1.15 min of the power play has a negative impact..

You would think...

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Old
12-29-2011, 11:21 PM
  #158
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Wow, glad I missed this one.

Is that how they show up for "must-win" games?

Columbus earns just their first regulation road win of the season, and it's at Dallas's expense.

Not good.

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Old
12-29-2011, 11:23 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post
I wish we could blow it up. I'd keep the following:

Bachman
Benn
Eriksson
Fiddler
Goligoski
Larsen
Lehtonen
Nystrom
Ott
Ribeiro
Souray
Fistric

The problem then becomes, who can they be replaced with? We definitely don't have the depth in the AHL and solid players in free agency don't come cheap!
I'd agree on about half your selections.

Benn
Erkisson
Ryder
Ribiero
Larsen
Goligoski
Lehtonen
Fistric

Because they're cheap and signed, Fiddler and Nystrom. I'd love for Dvorak to come back one more year.

I'm not sold on Bachman but he hasn't done enough to warrant being traded or being worth anything in trade so he'd stay.

Sourey started hot but he's slow and getting his shots blocked way too much. If he can be moved at the deadline for even a 6th round pick they should.

In order of departure:

Robidas
Morrow
Grossman
Sourey
Peterson
Burish
Ott
Daley
Wandell

Holding steady for the last few seasons hasn't helped and this team doens't have the assets to acquire a top six center, top pair defender, and top six winger so let's try getting rid of the detritus instead of hoping this year will be the year they make the playoffs.

catters,

the Benn thing is baffling. Let's double shift him with crappy 4th line players but not give him primo PP time. How bout we switch those two and shuffle the 3rd line guys with the 4th line. More Nystrom, Fiddler, and Dvorak on the 4th line with more Benn on the powerplay makes the whole team better.

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Old
12-29-2011, 11:32 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
I'd agree on about half your selections.

Benn
Erkisson
Ryder
Ribiero
Larsen
Goligoski
Lehtonen
Fistric

Because they're cheap and signed, Fiddler and Nystrom. I'd love for Dvorak to come back one more year.

I'm not sold on Bachman but he hasn't done enough to warrant being traded or being worth anything in trade so he'd stay.

Sourey started hot but he's slow and getting his shots blocked way too much. If he can be moved at the deadline for even a 6th round pick they should.

In order of departure:

Robidas
Morrow
Grossman
Sourey
Peterson
Burish
Ott
Daley
Wandell

Holding steady for the last few seasons hasn't helped and this team doens't have the assets to acquire a top six center, top pair defender, and top six winger so let's try getting rid of the detritus instead of hoping this year will be the year they make the playoffs.

catters,

the Benn thing is baffling. Let's double shift him with crappy 4th line players but not give him primo PP time. How bout we switch those two and shuffle the 3rd line guys with the 4th line. More Nystrom, Fiddler, and Dvorak on the 4th line with more Benn on the powerplay makes the whole team better.
I actually forgot Ryder, he's been pretty good this season, I really like him on the team.

Also, Souray may have fizzled on offsense but he's a good defenseman, IMO.


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Old
12-29-2011, 11:47 PM
  #161
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I think we're overreacting after one pretty bad loss. I don't think we need to blow up the whole team, but some pieces do need to go or get moved down the depth chart. Other than that, the only position I think we truly need to address through things other than our prospect pool are getting a top 6 playmaker. Our defense is going to be solid once guys like Nemeth, Oleksiak, Klingberg, Dillon, etc. make the jump, and we've got no lack of scoring forwards in Fraser, Vincour, Smith, etc. among the ones we already have as well. Goalies aren't an issue at all. We just need better center depth, and more playmaker-type forwards.

Hull Fan, if we could somehow lure Krejci away from Boston, that'd probably end up being one of the best lines we've ever seen. The only way I see that happening though, is if they simply get too deep at center (which is very possible), or if Savard returns, which I seriously doubt will ever happen.

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12-29-2011, 11:56 PM
  #162
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Honestly I think there are alot of problems with coaching as well as personnel.... Why the hell is Benn getting less pp time than Ott.. Why is the Benn line getting only like 16 minutes of es time a game etc

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12-29-2011, 11:58 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I think we're overreacting after one pretty bad loss. I don't think we need to blow up the whole team, but some pieces do need to go or get moved down the depth chart. Other than that, the only position I think we truly need to address through things other than our prospect pool are getting a top 6 playmaker. Our defense is going to be solid once guys like Nemeth, Oleksiak, Klingberg, Dillon, etc. make the jump, and we've got no lack of scoring forwards in Fraser, Vincour, Smith, etc. among the ones we already have as well. Goalies aren't an issue at all. We just need better center depth, and more playmaker-type forwards.

Hull Fan, if we could somehow lure Krejci away from Boston, that'd probably end up being one of the best lines we've ever seen. The only way I see that happening though, is if they simply get too deep at center (which is very possible), or if Savard returns, which I seriously doubt will ever happen.
This isn't a reaction to one game, it's a reaction to a whole season of inconsistency and unnecessary ups and downs.

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Old
12-30-2011, 12:02 AM
  #164
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I've been on board with trading away Morrow and Robidas for a while now. Riberio and Ott I'd prefer to stay because we need playmakers and guys who can win FOs like woah. I personally don't understand the hate for Ott - he's on pace for 50 points this year playing in the top 6, provides great puck possession for w/e line he plays on, and is one of the best FO guys in the league. He's not ideal in the top 6 but he's a good plug for now. $3million is not a bad contract for what he brings.

Honestly the reason Morrow needs to go is because Gulutzan has some serious issues playing the Benn line as his #1 line. Look at average ToI: Morrow-Ribs-Ott is almost always played more than Benn/Loui. He talks a big game about how they have two top lines, but he clearly plays the Benn line as #2 despite them being younger, better defensively, more consistent, and flat out more skilled.

I generally hate coaches who shake things up every 2 games and never let people develop chemistry. But Gulutzan's stubborness with his PP pairings and lines is downright stupid. And I haven't been sold on a single thing Jerrad has done all season. His defense pairs are atrocious and it was his idea to use Toby on the PP point, and Gulutzan has stuck with it.

Niewy needs to step in and force some sanity on our PP. It's obvious Gulutzan likes spreading the wealth out, but it doesn't work. When you create two "equal" lines (hint, they're not equal) you end up getting screwed because the second PP unit never gets the same amount of time as the first. And he almost always starts with the Morrow unit.

Benn-Ribs-Loui needs to be given some serious ice time, whether its on the PP or put together on nights where the lines aren't clicking. When Morrow goes down to an injury mid game, Burish should not be on the PP. Double shift Loui, Benn, or Ryder.

Gulutzan's tenure here is going to be how he adjusts to bad games/periods like this. He's trying to change the culture? Well bad games like this are just the lazy and timid play we've seen over the past 3 years. It'll be interesting to see how he responds.

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Old
12-30-2011, 12:14 AM
  #165
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This isn't a reaction to one game, it's a reaction to a whole season of inconsistency and unnecessary ups and downs.
True. I just don't see why we have to completely blow the team up. It's not a bad team, we're just not nearly as good as the standings show. The only two that I think really have to be gone soon due to their play are Morrow and Robidas. They simply aren't the leaders this team needs. And one thing that pops out at me when you look at the recent cup winners is the leadership. All of these teams have a leader who can lead their team not only in the locker room, but on the ice as well. Chara, Toews, Lidstrom, Crosby, Niedermayer. Morrow simply can't do that anymore. That's also one of the reasons I think Benn should become captain, but that's another discussion.

I was looking around at some prospects, and I was wondering what you guys think Nieuwendyk should do. Just screw this season and try and build for the future, or push for the playoffs. Even though we're playing okay, I'm not sure we can even make the playoffs this year, and two straight years of missing out on deadline overpayment for our key players (assuming Richards wasn't being shopped last year) will almost certainly kill us. Morrow and Robidas will probably be worth more than they have in several years this trade deadline, and I think we could get a hefty return for both. Florida is one team that should be looking at these two, as I expect they'll try to make a serious push after their closer to the playoffs then they've been in what, almost a decade. Grimaldi would look good with Benn and Eriksson, and hell, I think if we were to add a 1st/2nd and a prospect or something along those lines, Huberdeau could be in talks (doubtful, though). Minnesota's got some great centers in the wings, and they should be in a similar boat as Florida. What I'm getting at is that there'll be plenty of buyers at the deadline, and I'll be extremely pissed if we don't go out and shape our future by trading our vets, unless we're almost guaranteed a playoff spot by then.

I'm tired, and I don't even remember half of what I wrote. So take all of it for what you will.

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12-30-2011, 12:32 AM
  #166
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Unfortunately Morrow and Robidas won't be traded at the deadline unless we're 10+ points out. I don't see it happening, as much as I'd love it.

Btw Daley and Goose both both played the full 2 minute PP, in the first period at least. Why does Gully refuse to play Larsen, his MVP on the PP in Cedar Park? I want to see Goose get the full minutes while Daley/Larsen split time.


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Old
12-30-2011, 12:32 AM
  #167
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We're officially in 9th place... WTG...

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12-30-2011, 12:41 AM
  #168
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True. I just don't see why we have to completely blow the team up. It's not a bad team, we're just not nearly as good as the standings show. The only two that I think really have to be gone soon due to their play are Morrow and Robidas. They simply aren't the leaders this team needs. And one thing that pops out at me when you look at the recent cup winners is the leadership. All of these teams have a leader who can lead their team not only in the locker room, but on the ice as well. Chara, Toews, Lidstrom, Crosby, Niedermayer. Morrow simply can't do that anymore. That's also one of the reasons I think Benn should become captain, but that's another discussion.

I was looking around at some prospects, and I was wondering what you guys think Nieuwendyk should do. Just screw this season and try and build for the future, or push for the playoffs. Even though we're playing okay, I'm not sure we can even make the playoffs this year, and two straight years of missing out on deadline overpayment for our key players (assuming Richards wasn't being shopped last year) will almost certainly kill us. Morrow and Robidas will probably be worth more than they have in several years this trade deadline, and I think we could get a hefty return for both. Florida is one team that should be looking at these two, as I expect they'll try to make a serious push after their closer to the playoffs then they've been in what, almost a decade. Grimaldi would look good with Benn and Eriksson, and hell, I think if we were to add a 1st/2nd and a prospect or something along those lines, Huberdeau could be in talks (doubtful, though). Minnesota's got some great centers in the wings, and they should be in a similar boat as Florida. What I'm getting at is that there'll be plenty of buyers at the deadline, and I'll be extremely pissed if we don't go out and shape our future by trading our vets, unless we're almost guaranteed a playoff spot by then.

I'm tired, and I don't even remember half of what I wrote. So take all of it for what you will.
I feel like were at a fork in the road now and we have 2 distinct options

Option 1 is the full rebuild... we ship out all of the older players and nobody but Benn Eriksson and Goligoski are on the table for the right deal go full out edmonton/nyi but not fail in drafting players... The downside to this is atleast a few years of lackluster attendance and irrelevance both in Dallas and in the National hockey media. Take on a contract like Gomez for the next 2 years to stay above the floor but still be able to field an awful roster and essentially guarantee top 5 picks for the next 2-3 years.

Option 2 is becoming huge buyers this offseason, ship out prospects/picks to buy players that are on the block and go after names like Suter and Parise if at all possible we max out on cap and essentially attempt to buy a contending time like Florida tried this offseason. The risk to this is we could become Calgary which is an awful place to be and waste the best years of talents on our team like Benn Eriksson Goligoski etc.

My real fear is that we will do neither and just be set onto a road of mediocrity for years to come

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12-30-2011, 12:44 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
It's not a bad team, we're just not nearly as good as the standings show.
If it's not a bad team, but we're not nearly as good as the standings show that we are, then what are we?

As of now, we're a 9th place team 5 games above .500. We're clearly an average team, at best.

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12-30-2011, 12:47 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
If it's not a bad team, but we're not nearly as good as the standings show that we are, then what are we?

As of now, we're a 9th place team 5 games above .500. We're clearly an average team, at best.
I didn't even bother to look at the standings as I typed that. I was referring to when we were leading the division. We're right around where we should be now.

Thanks for catching that, I haven't checked the standings in over a week now.

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12-30-2011, 01:07 AM
  #171
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Looking at the game on DVR and juding by Gully's quotes, its obvious they've decided to FINALLY work on shooting from everywhere and anywhere. That whole first half of the game they tried to just throw the puck on net from anywhere. They probably felt against a goalie like Mason they should just get rubber to the net. Gully himself said he felt they did good in sticking to their gameplan, that was clearly it.

The problem was that they got a lot of SOGs, but didn't outwork any of the defenders for position in front of the net or along the boards. Its good they're trying to fix their SoG issue, but they have to outwork the damn team too. And on the PP all that idea of drilling SoGs went out the window as they kept looking for the perfect pass.

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12-30-2011, 01:56 AM
  #172
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This team is pretty much the definition of mediocre. There are some players who are much better than mediocre but the team as a whole is just so so. You can't get beat like this by a team as legitimately bad as Columbus.

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12-30-2011, 12:05 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
If it's not a bad team, but we're not nearly as good as the standings show that we are, then what are we?

As of now, we're a 9th place team 5 games above .500. We're clearly an average team, at best.
I would agree that the Stars being 9th in the standings makes them look better than they actually are.

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12-30-2011, 01:50 PM
  #174
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I feel like were at a fork in the road now and we have 2 distinct options

Option 1 is the full rebuild... we ship out all of the older players and nobody but Benn Eriksson and Goligoski are on the table for the right deal go full out edmonton/nyi but not fail in drafting players... The downside to this is atleast a few years of lackluster attendance and irrelevance both in Dallas and in the National hockey media. Take on a contract like Gomez for the next 2 years to stay above the floor but still be able to field an awful roster and essentially guarantee top 5 picks for the next 2-3 years.
If you trade Morrow and Robidas you are by definition pretty much in full rebuild mode. In doing so they should try to foist off every UFA they have no intention of retaining which should be Grossman, Sourey, and Burish. They'll have to take salary back beyond just picks/prospects so find a guy(s) who may be overpaid but is a solid defenseman, 4th liner or maybe a guy like Ryder on the outs with his team but is a legit top six player.

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Option 2 is becoming huge buyers this offseason, ship out prospects/picks to buy players that are on the block and go after names like Suter and Parise if at all possible we max out on cap and essentially attempt to buy a contending time like Florida tried this offseason. The risk to this is we could become Calgary which is an awful place to be and waste the best years of talents on our team like Benn Eriksson Goligoski etc.
The problem with being buyers is your competing with 20+ other teams and you're tying up huge money in just a player or two. There's nothing wrong with signing UFA 3rd and 4th liners but trying to find a young top six/top three player who's UFA like Parise is difficult enough. Now you want him to come to a subpar team too? Yes some of these guys sign with teams for the top dollar but Dallas is no longer a upper tier team and trying to woo Suter, Weber, Parise and the like is a long shot at best and shouldn't be plan A because when it fails where do they turn next except to run the same team out there again next year hoping for a different result.

Dallas has some decent prospects but trading them away mortgages the future for the present and you better be excellent talent evaluators because one bad deal can really set a franchise back. It also prevents home grown talent from improving your club because you've traded it away. See Toronto in the early 2000s as an example of why this is bad.

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My real fear is that we will do neither and just be set onto a road of mediocrity for years to come
Welcome to my world for the last two seasons.

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12-30-2011, 06:16 PM
  #175
Caseman
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Woof... glad I missed this one .-.

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