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The twins own the Art Ross Trophy

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Old
01-13-2012, 08:01 AM
  #26
RedeyeRocketeer
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Cup would be better. Just not sure they can do it.

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01-13-2012, 12:02 PM
  #27
cbjerrisgaard
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One word - Durability.

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01-13-2012, 12:09 PM
  #28
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If there's a threepeat, might as well name it the Sedin Trophy.

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Old
01-13-2012, 12:57 PM
  #29
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It's actually kinda crazy how good they've been in the last few seasons.

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01-13-2012, 01:00 PM
  #30
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It's actually kinda crazy how good they've been in the last few seasons.
But they're not elite! Amirite or amirite?

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Old
01-13-2012, 01:37 PM
  #31
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Nothing more then 2nd liners.

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Old
01-13-2012, 01:41 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbjerrisgaard View Post
One word - Durability.
Ya, I have this argument on the main boards with fans of miscellaneous teams occasionally, but durability is one of the underrated components of the Twins games, and ability to win scoring titles. It's great of you're producing at a 1.5 PPG pace of whatever, but if you can't stay healthy it really doesn't matter.

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01-13-2012, 05:06 PM
  #33
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I love how durable they are, especially given how brittle our back end is year in and year out. Over the past 5 years, I can always go into a game expecting at least a scoring line. I look at the oilers and their kid line, I'll be worried if I were them, all three are pretty prone to injuries, Hall went down in consecutive years, as with Eberle, and now Hopkins is out for a while. I'm glad that the twins somehow always manage to stay out of trouble each season. (knock wood)

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Old
01-13-2012, 05:11 PM
  #34
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Quite seriously if they finish 1-2 in the race this season I dont know how they're not the best duo of their era. Ever...

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01-13-2012, 05:40 PM
  #35
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I'd take barely above ppg, defensively responsible Sedins over what they are

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Old
01-13-2012, 06:09 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by parabola View Post
It's actually kinda crazy how good they've been in the last few seasons.
Doesn't surprise me. Their game is based on strength and experience which come with age. Speed comes with youth.

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Old
01-13-2012, 06:23 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Slapshot_11 View Post
I'd take barely above ppg, defensively responsible Sedins over what they are
Not me. I love points!

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Old
01-13-2012, 06:30 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Slapshot_11 View Post
I'd take barely above ppg, defensively responsible Sedins over what they are
What are they exactly....only the best point producers in the NHL? They dont have to be defensive stalwarts with forwards like Burrows, Kesler, Malhotra, Hansen etc. on the team.

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01-13-2012, 06:42 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Slapshot_11 View Post
I'd take barely above ppg, defensively responsible Sedins over what they are


I sometimes feel this city doesn't deserve the twins when I read such idiotic comments like this one.

As if the Sedin's are incredible liabilities in their own zone, while being 1 and 2 in scoring with a +15 and +14 respectively... Not to mention being as durable as they are and according to many people around the league as being "low-maintenance" for superstars.

Also not to forget the beautiful artistry of their game... It's absolutely beautiful... seriously sickens me when I see comments like these.

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01-13-2012, 09:22 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Henrik2Daniel View Post


I sometimes feel this city doesn't deserve the twins when I read such idiotic comments like this one.

As if the Sedin's are incredible liabilities in their own zone, while being 1 and 2 in scoring with a +15 and +14 respectively... Not to mention being as durable as they are and according to many people around the league as being "low-maintenance" for superstars.

Also not to forget the beautiful artistry of their game... It's absolutely beautiful... seriously sickens me when I see comments like these.
I'd trade some of those points they get for them to be more defensively responsible, so what?

Sedins get easy minutes, look at the stats and see how many defensive zone starts they get..

Sure they are + in the regular season but watch them get destroyed 5v5 in the playoffs when they cant do there cute passes/plays just like last playoffs

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01-13-2012, 09:42 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Henrik2Daniel View Post


I sometimes feel this city doesn't deserve the twins when I read such idiotic comments like this one.

As if the Sedin's are incredible liabilities in their own zone, while being 1 and 2 in scoring with a +15 and +14 respectively... Not to mention being as durable as they are and according to many people around the league as being "low-maintenance" for superstars.

Also not to forget the beautiful artistry of their game... It's absolutely beautiful... seriously sickens me when I see comments like these.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
What are they exactly....only the best point producers in the NHL? They dont have to be defensive stalwarts with forwards like Burrows, Kesler, Malhotra, Hansen etc. on the team.
I agree with him, actually. The Sedins' defensive games have significantly dropped off from when they were 80 point players (they were actually among our best penalty killers at one point). The Sedins' poor defensive game was one of the biggest problems we had in the playoffs, IMO. Sometimes you wonder if the boost in regular-season offense is worth the sacrifice-- if they might be tougher, more difficult to play against players in the playoffs with a more well-rounded game.

I've noticed them playing better defense lately though. And with all that said, I don't see what's stopping them from doing both-- it's not like the style they play prevents them from being able to play well defensively.

It's weird, really-- they used to be much more capable at stripping the puck from the opposition, but seem to have lost that ability completely.

Maybe it is AV's fault (and I don't say that often). With the forward depth we have now, maybe we would be a better team if we didn't use the Sedins strictly for offense-only situations and tried to go for a more well-rounded two-way team. God knows they could use the practise.

I think these guys are just over-reacting to your post as if you didn't appreciate what incredible things they're doing or something.


Last edited by Shareefruck: 01-13-2012 at 09:55 PM.
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Old
01-13-2012, 09:53 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
I agree with him, actually. The Sedins' defensive games have significantly dropped off from when they were 80 point players (they were actually among our best penalty killers at one point). The Sedins' poor defensive game was one of the biggest problems we had in the playoffs, IMO. Sometimes you wonder if the boost in regular-season offense is worth the sacrifice-- if they might be tougher, more difficult to play against players in the playoffs with a more well-rounded game.

I've noticed them playing better defense lately though. And with all that said, I don't see what's stopping them from doing both-- it's not like the style they play prevents them from being able to play well defensively.

It's weird, really-- they used to be much more capable at stripping the puck from the opposition, but seem to have lost that ability completely.

Maybe it is AV's fault (and I don't say that often). With the forward depth we have now, maybe we would be a better team if we didn't use the Sedins strictly for offense-only situations.
The Sedins #1 problem in their defensive game is that they're really poor in the back check or when chasing opponents... partially because they are relatively slow skaters, but there's definitively a lack of secondary effort. It's why they've been taking a lot of bad penalties as of late, mainly hooking or tripping. They usually hustle a lot so it's always disheartening to see them just glide while their check is left open for a couple of seconds, or them just give up on a chase and go for a trip or hook in the corners.

And it's also disappointing, because they're very positionally sound and are great at stealing pucks on the forecheck or the D-zone.

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Old
01-13-2012, 09:55 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
I agree with him, actually. The Sedins' defensive games have significantly dropped off from when they were 80 point players (they were actually among our best penalty killers at one point). The Sedins' poor defensive game was one of the biggest problems we had in the playoffs, IMO. Sometimes you wonder if the boost in regular-season offense is worth the sacrifice-- if they might be tougher, more difficult to play against players in the playoffs with a more well-rounded game.

I've noticed them playing better defense lately though. And with all that said, I don't see what's stopping them from doing both-- it's not like the style they play prevents them from being able to play well defensively.

It's weird, really-- they used to be much more capable at stripping the puck from the opposition, but seem to have lost that ability completely.

Maybe it is AV's fault (and I don't say that often). With the forward depth we have now, maybe we would be a better team if we didn't use the Sedins strictly for offense-only situations.
i wouldn't go as far as to wish for the return of postlockout sedins, but yeah i have been concerned about their weaker backchecking of late, esp at certain critical times in the playoffs. and the steady rise of lazy hooking and holding penalties...

that said i am loving the offensive dominance of the last two years and i wouldn't trade that for anything other than a cup. they could play like '04 bertuzzi for all i care if we win a cup.

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Old
01-13-2012, 11:22 PM
  #44
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The Sedins elevating their game into Art Ross status has vaulted our team into Serious contender status each season. To want them to go back to 05-08 level is just... Like I said the Canucks have more than enough penalty killers on this team now, and usually as a team are good enough 5 on 5 that it doesnt matter if the Sedins don't exhaust as much energy in the defensive zone anymore...

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Old
01-13-2012, 11:26 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
The Sedins elevating their game into Art Ross status has vaulted our team into Serious contender status each season. To want them to go back to 05-08 level is just... Like I said the Canucks have more than enough penalty killers on this team now, and usually as a team are good enough 5 on 5 that it doesnt matter if the Sedins don't exhaust as much energy in the defensive zone anymore...
this is HF where players are expected to become worse offensively and better defensivelybecause that is automatically better for their team.

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Old
01-14-2012, 12:22 AM
  #46
Christina Woloski
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Originally Posted by Slapshot_11 View Post
I'd take barely above ppg, defensively responsible Sedins over what they are


Not sure if serious.

This is what we have.

Why would they ever need to play in especially defensive situations when you have Kesler? Honey Badger? etc?


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Old
01-14-2012, 12:24 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Slapshot_11 View Post
I'd trade some of those points they get for them to be more defensively responsible, so what?

Sedins get easy minutes, look at the stats and see how many defensive zone starts they get..

Sure they are + in the regular season but watch them get destroyed 5v5 in the playoffs when they cant do there cute passes/plays just like last playoffs
You GOT to be kidding me.

They weren't given the easy minutes to get points. They get points so they were given the easy minutes.

Absolutely RE-TARD-ED logic.

I LOVE how them getting "destroyed" gets us to the finals.

I recommend you find another team to cheer for if you can't get behind this one.

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Old
01-14-2012, 12:27 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i wouldn't go as far as to wish for the return of postlockout sedins, but yeah i have been concerned about their weaker backchecking of late, esp at certain critical times in the playoffs. and the steady rise of lazy hooking and holding penalties...

that said i am loving the offensive dominance of the last two years and i wouldn't trade that for anything other than a cup. they could play like '04 bertuzzi for all i care if we win a cup.
To be clear, I wasn't implying that I wanted them to go back to 80 point guys, or that I wasn't happy with the way the twins have turned out, but instead, in an ideal world, it would have been nice if instead of jumping straight to 100-110 point guys who struggled in their own end, they simply improved from 80 point guys who were great defensively into 90 point guys who were great defensively. I'm happy that they continued to improve at all, but still. You wonder if it hasn't hurt them in the playoffs.

A contender like this one can't afford to have their best players give up tons of chances the minute the puck goes back the other way in the playoffs. Just like while it isn't the checking line's job to score, you can't have them not chipping in once in a while. I'm not saying this 100 point version of the Sedins can't be good defensively or that they never are, but they've struggled at it at times, and pale in comparison to what they used to do in their own end.

I don't know why there's this big outrage over pointing this out. The Sedins are great, but they have a relatively big weakness in their game right now that didn't used to be there.

On top of that, it's just a neat/odd thing to point out. From the beginning of their careers, they improve offensively and defensively more and more every year, and then all of a sudden one year, they explode offensively, completely regress back defensively and never look back.


Last edited by Shareefruck: 01-14-2012 at 12:43 AM.
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Old
01-14-2012, 01:22 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Slapshot_11 View Post
I'd take barely above ppg, defensively responsible Sedins over what they are
Excellent logic, except for the fact that over the past 5 seasons, the more points they have, the greater their +/-

Yes, they take some seemingly stupid penalties, but the stats over several seasons show they are among the more defensively responsible of the elite scorers in the league.

Before making ridiculous statements about the best players on our team (and consistently best in the league over the last few seasons) look at the +/- of any star player not named Datsyuk. No, +/- is not everything but it's hard (and wrong in my opinion) to criticize the defensive play of players with consistently excellent +/-.

They aren't great forecheckers, they aren't great backcheckers. What they are great at is puck control and not letting the opposition gain possession. That in itself is defensive play via excellent offense. At the end of the day, when the Sedins are on the ice, more goals go in for us than for the opponents. That's really the main thing is it not? And this stat has been correlated with their increasing offensive prowess, so I'll take the present day Sedins without a doubt.


Last edited by Lindt: 01-14-2012 at 01:33 AM.
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Old
01-14-2012, 01:44 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
Not sure if serious.

This is what we have.

Why would they ever need to play in especially defensive situations when you have Kesler? Honey Badger? etc?

Why? I dont know why, maybe theres injuries, or those guys were just out there and now need to replace. Thats why guys like Zetterberg and Datysuk in there primes will always be better then the Sedins, atleast for me.. guys who play in any situation and who arnt one trick ponies (very good ones though)


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Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
You GOT to be kidding me.

They weren't given the easy minutes to get points. They get points so they were given the easy minutes.

Absolutely RE-TARD-ED logic.

I LOVE how them getting "destroyed" gets us to the finals.

I recommend you find another team to cheer for if you can't get behind this one.
What? I don't have the stats right here but someone here I think opendoor or pits showed how the Sedins basically just get o-zone starts or something to that

Did you also love when the Sedins couldn't put up a ppg and were getting embarrassed 5v5?

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Originally Posted by Lindt View Post
Excellent logic, except for the fact that over the past 5 seasons, the more points they have, the greater their +/-

Yes, they take some seemingly stupid penalties, but the stats over several seasons show they are among the more defensively responsible of the elite scorers in the league.

Before making ridiculous statements about the best players on our team (and consistently best in the league over the last few seasons) look at the +/- of any star player not named Datsyuk. No, +/- is not everything but it's hard (and wrong in my opinion) to criticize the defensive play of players with consistently excellent +/-.
There isn't anything to say if you think they are good defensively just because of +/-




And people need to chill, I said I would rather have 83-90 point players who are responsibly defensively then what they are now. Its imo that the play style of the Sedins doesn't translate well to the playoffs


Last edited by Slapshot_11: 01-14-2012 at 01:52 AM.
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