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The twins own the Art Ross Trophy

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Old
01-14-2012, 09:05 AM
  #51
Lindt
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^ So +/- means nothing, even when consistently near the top of the league among top scorers year upon year? What's the logic there?

I suppose taking lazy penalties which the Sedins are prone to doing cause PPGs and don't affect their +/-, and I agree that is a factor, but other than that I think it's a good barometer of the effectiveness of their play, even though it doesn't look Kesler-esque.

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01-14-2012, 10:45 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
Not sure if serious.

This is what we have.

Why would they ever need to play in especially defensive situations when you have Kesler? Honey Badger? etc?

Sigh... a little something called consistency through the line-up, a trait that the post-lockout Cup winners have all had.

To win a Cup in today's league you need to be able to constantly pummel a team in all zones with all your lines. Getting the Sedins hemmed in their own zone is pretty much vacation time for any line out there right now.

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01-14-2012, 12:31 PM
  #53
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To be clear, I wasn't implying that I wanted them to go back to 80 point guys, or that I wasn't happy with the way the twins have turned out, but instead, in an ideal world, it would have been nice if instead of jumping straight to 100-110 point guys who struggled in their own end, they simply improved from 80 point guys who were great defensively into 90 point guys who were great defensively. I'm happy that they continued to improve at all, but still. You wonder if it hasn't hurt them in the playoffs.

A contender like this one can't afford to have their best players give up tons of chances the minute the puck goes back the other way in the playoffs. Just like while it isn't the checking line's job to score, you can't have them not chipping in once in a while. I'm not saying this 100 point version of the Sedins can't be good defensively or that they never are, but they've struggled at it at times, and pale in comparison to what they used to do in their own end.

I don't know why there's this big outrage over pointing this out. The Sedins are great, but they have a relatively big weakness in their game right now that didn't used to be there.

On top of that, it's just a neat/odd thing to point out. From the beginning of their careers, they improve offensively and defensively more and more every year, and then all of a sudden one year, they explode offensively, completely regress back defensively and never look back.
i'm not sure if you were responding to me as expressing outrage (i didn't mean to), but i totally agree with you. from what i can see, the at times lazy backchecking we've seen from the sedins, which didn't used to be there, doesn't "allow" them to score an extra 20 points every year. in fact, they don't seem related at all-- except, as someone upthread hypothesized, that they practice defense less because AV is so set on giving them predominantly offensive zone starts and situations.

so yeah, i really don't see why they can't be what they are now offensively, while going back to being what they had been defensively. they don't have to kill penalties, but i'd really like to see them backchecking harder, especially daniel, who leaves his man open in the defensive zone more and more, and i really want to see an end to all the lazy hooking and holding penalties.

but to respond not to you but to slapshot_11, i would definitely not trade art ross sedins for 80-85 point sedins, regardless of defensive play. as someone else pointed out upthread, the big jump to their offensive game coincided exactly with our team becoming a true contender. i mean, it's not like the ~PPG sedins won more playoff rounds than the current versions. the team is better off this way, even if there is still room for improvement.

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Old
01-14-2012, 02:14 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i'm not sure if you were responding to me as expressing outrage (i didn't mean to), but i totally agree with you. from what i can see, the at times lazy backchecking we've seen from the sedins, which didn't used to be there, doesn't "allow" them to score an extra 20 points every year. in fact, they don't seem related at all-- except, as someone upthread hypothesized, that they practice defense less because AV is so set on giving them predominantly offensive zone starts and situations.

so yeah, i really don't see why they can't be what they are now offensively, while going back to being what they had been defensively. they don't have to kill penalties, but i'd really like to see them backchecking harder, especially daniel, who leaves his man open in the defensive zone more and more, and i really want to see an end to all the lazy hooking and holding penalties.

but to respond not to you but to slapshot_11, i would definitely not trade art ross sedins for 80-85 point sedins, regardless of defensive play. as someone else pointed out upthread, the big jump to their offensive game coincided exactly with our team becoming a true contender. i mean, it's not like the ~PPG sedins won more playoff rounds than the current versions. the team is better off this way, even if there is still room for improvement.
No, I'm responding to the one or two posters who are all like "blablabla need to give their head a shake and cheer for another team. Wow.
Ridiculous." and stuff like that.

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01-14-2012, 02:33 PM
  #55
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Slaphot_11's opinion of the Sedins is exactly that, his opinion, so I can respect that. BUT, this is exactly what Trevor Linden was talking about in an interview a while ago. He was talking about, nevermind fans and media around the league, people in VANCOUVER not appreciating the Sedins enough. He seemed absolutely incredulous when he was talking about it and I don't blame him. This team has twin brothers both competing for the Art Ross for a third straight season. They're also durable players that are avoiding the infirmary while almost every other team's stars are succumbing to concussions on a frighteningly regular basis and spending large chunks of time out for other injuries. Even though they're not the biggest guys in the world or toughest, they just keep trucking on scoring points and winning games for their team.

My question is, what more do people want? It's perfectly ok to critique them - saying they're pretty lackadaisical defensively is a fair comment and a true one - but to wish to have any different players than what they are currently is kind of ridiculous. But as I said, at the end of the day it's your opinion.

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02-14-2012, 01:22 PM
  #56
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I swear ever since this thread appeared the Sedins have fallen off the face of the planet. Quite the jinx there.

I'm not sure exactly why, but they are not making highlight plays and teams seem to be covering them very well defensively. Our "best losing streak ever" has coincided with this. Our depth is keeping us afloat and we are only eking wins in OT.

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02-14-2012, 01:32 PM
  #57
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I swear ever since this thread appeared the Sedins have fallen off the face of the planet. Quite the jinx there.

I'm not sure exactly why, but they are not making highlight plays and teams seem to be covering them very well defensively. Our "best losing streak ever" has coincided with this. Our depth is keeping us afloat and we are only eking wins in OT.
It really is disappointing. The Sedins are playing like they have ZERO other options if their game plan isn't working so it gives off the illusion that they' doing nothing out there. Plays are just dying when they can't make their cross ice passes. Cycles along the boards stay along the boards and the puck never gets to the front of the net.

Someone made a comment about the. Sedins Art Ross winning seasons coinciding with Ehrhoff's two years in Vancouver and without Ehrhoff they are 80-85 point players again and I'm starting to think there is something to that. Yes, the current D group has all picked up the slack offensively so the team as a whole is getting production from the blue line but the point is it's not necessarily helping the Sedins. It is not all about points and Ehrhoff assisted the Sedins in a huge way.

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Old
02-14-2012, 01:48 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
It really is disappointing. The Sedins are playing like they have ZERO other options if their game plan isn't working so it gives off the illusion that they' doing nothing out there. Plays are just dying when they can't make their cross ice passes. Cycles along the boards stay along the boards and the puck never gets to the front of the net.

Someone made a comment about the. Sedins Art Ross winning seasons coinciding with Ehrhoff's two years in Vancouver and without Ehrhoff they are 80-85 point players again and I'm starting to think there is something to that. Yes, the current D group has all picked up the slack offensively so the team as a whole is getting production from the blue line but the point is it's not necessarily helping the Sedins. It is not all about points and Ehrhoff assisted the Sedins in a huge way.
They are being shutdown now the same way as they were during the playoffs, dmen are playing man to man with no switching and cutting of the cycle... I'm glad its happening now so they can figure out how to beat it during the regular season.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:00 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
It really is disappointing. The Sedins are playing like they have ZERO other options if their game plan isn't working so it gives off the illusion that they' doing nothing out there. Plays are just dying when they can't make their cross ice passes. Cycles along the boards stay along the boards and the puck never gets to the front of the net.

Someone made a comment about the. Sedins Art Ross winning seasons coinciding with Ehrhoff's two years in Vancouver and without Ehrhoff they are 80-85 point players again and I'm starting to think there is something to that. Yes, the current D group has all picked up the slack offensively so the team as a whole is getting production from the blue line but the point is it's not necessarily helping the Sedins. It is not all about points and Ehrhoff assisted the Sedins in a huge way.
Actually I disagree in that they were ripping it up earlier... they just do not have the same intensity, and neither does the team. Since his Injury Salo is a shell of who he was...

I think the Sedin's are an example of the entire team just pacing themselves. The 80-90 point pace has more to do with them not turning it up yet. Last night I thought they played really well vs the Yotes, but the Yotes as a team were not going to let them beat them. They collapsed, took away lanes, got sticks in the way of I don't know how many passes... typical Tippett hockey.

Come March I wager they will rip it up again after the roster and lines are set, baring injuries.

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02-14-2012, 02:04 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
I swear ever since this thread appeared the Sedins have fallen off the face of the planet.
They're just getting a jump start on the post season.

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02-14-2012, 02:21 PM
  #61
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I agree.. the team as a whole is doing just enough to get by because like we have seen in games where they are losing(aka cgy game) they were able to turn it up and blow teams away.

Its like the first round last year. everyone was worried about how we were playing and save a Torres hit on seabrook the canucks would have blown the hawks out in 4 games as they were able to turn the intensity up after 2 losses to the Oil.

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02-14-2012, 02:22 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan View Post
Actually I disagree in that they were ripping it up earlier... they just do not have the same intensity, and neither does the team. Since his Injury Salo is a shell of who he was...

I think the Sedin's are an example of the entire team just pacing themselves. The 80-90 point pace has more to do with them not turning it up yet. Last night I thought they played really well vs the Yotes, but the Yotes as a team were not going to let them beat them. They collapsed, took away lanes, got sticks in the way of I don't know how many passes... typical Tippett hockey.

Come March I wager they will rip it up again after the roster and lines are set, baring injuries.
How did that work out for Ovechkin and the Capitals last year??

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02-14-2012, 02:28 PM
  #63
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They are being shutdown now the same way as they were during the playoffs, dmen are playing man to man with no switching and cutting of the cycle... I'm glad its happening now so they can figure out how to beat it during the regular season.
I'm glad it's happening in the regular season too. Hopefully the rest of the team can continue to step up (hodgson/booth). Hopefully the Sedins actually do overcome this. If they do, it will make them even stronger for the playoffs. If they don't adapt, i'm going to cry.

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Old
02-14-2012, 02:35 PM
  #64
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How did that work out for Ovechkin and the Capitals last year??
Worked well for us last year. IIRC, we had the same threads *****ing about hour lack of compete level and we made it all the way to the finals.

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02-14-2012, 02:49 PM
  #65
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Just a note - the Sedins have an unfair advantage over everyone else vying for the art ross because they both get to play with a previous AR trophy winner.

And they have dropped off big time in their scoring recently, but they are getting a ton of chances.

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02-14-2012, 03:06 PM
  #66
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I think Malkin's got it in the bag this year.

I don't really mind actually. Each of the twins have their Art Ross trophy. I'm now just rooting for our guys that are possibly in the running for some of the other trophies the team hasn't won yet (in the current era). Edler is in the thick of the Norris race and Hodgson is definitely in the Calder race, probably in the top 3. Bure won a Calder but like I said, I'm more referring to this current era.

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02-14-2012, 03:22 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
I think Malkin's got it in the bag this year.

I don't really mind actually. Each of the twins have their Art Ross trophy. I'm now just rooting for our guys that are possibly in the running for some of the other trophies the team hasn't won yet (in the current era). Edler is in the thick of the Norris race and Hodgson is definitely in the Calder race, probably in the top 3. Bure won a Calder but like I said, I'm more referring to this current era.
Yeah, Malkin's definitely got it. I don't mind at all because I really admire him. And I agree, I'm so elated that both Henrik and Daniel got to win it (along with a Hart and Ted Lindsay). Edler's going to improve every year and I'm sure we'll see him in contention for the Norris someday.

These boys just need one more trophy...

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Old
02-14-2012, 03:51 PM
  #68
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How bout that kessel guy

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