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Soaring cost of sports rights squeezing CBC on to sidelines

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Old
12-30-2011, 08:13 PM
  #51
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lost respect for CBC every time i hear Glenn Healy. see ya.

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12-31-2011, 12:01 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by richard armus View Post
according to the CBC accounting that came out over the past few years the HNIC while has the highest revenues--their spending surpassed the revenues.
This has been my suspicion for a while, but, I haven't seen anything stated by CBC on the matter. Do you have a link? I've been very curious to know the financial details, which are really hard to come by.

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12-31-2011, 12:51 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Not you dissing the CFL, but Westerners dissing the CBC and Easterners making fun of the CFL. I said when the west respects the CBC we will respect the CFL. Maybe you misunderstood me.
I don't think the west will ever respect the Cbc they see it as state tv and alot do not think Canada should have state tv as private network canada do that job i have been in many debates with some on the far right over this very topic.

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12-31-2011, 01:02 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
we're really off topic, as fun as the conversation is... let's bring it on down to hockey-ville.
...oops, sorry bout that, just re-read my post, didnt realize Id' gone so completely off the rails. I mistook hf for the Brinsworth House for Retired Performers in Twickenhams' chat board & thought I was having a convo with Michael Crawford.

Some Mothers Do Ave' Em Brodie.


Last edited by Killion: 12-31-2011 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Typos, what else?.
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Old
12-31-2011, 07:00 PM
  #55
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The Torries' problem is that they're Conservatives hence are not into goverment giving money to private enterprises but the very fact that they're right wingers, Nationalism is very important to them and if they let HNIC go it would be seen as one of the worst act of anti-patriotism.

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12-31-2011, 07:11 PM
  #56
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Can someone explain to me the need to have an HD truck? If they're going to do all the Saturday Leaf games in HD, isn't it just easier to have the equipment there at the arena? Or is that some kind of logistical nightmare?

Why don't teams invest in their own hd equipment and just rent it out to the broadcasters?

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12-31-2011, 08:46 PM
  #57
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What I don't understand is why the NHL still has exclusive rights deals for certain days of the week. If Jets or Habs fans feel like they are neglected by HNIC, I don't understand why the NHL cannot open up Saturdays to multiple broadcasters much like what the NFL does. The Eastern Canadian teams could be on one network and the Western Canadian teams could be on another network. They could alternate which gets the second game when an East plays West much like the NFL does with the late game.

Frankly, I could careless who has the rights to hockey on Saturday nights, since being a Kings fan I see roughly 2 games per year on HNIC. If anything, I wish the CRTC would quite being protectionist and allow cable systems to add US sports channels, top of my list is Fox Sports West.

But if anyone is to get the Saturday night rights, I'd prefer it to be CBC. TSN and Sportsnet lack the tradition that CBC has. They change broadcast teams as often as most people change their underwear that it is impossible for a traditional voice of hockey to be developed. I'm showing my age saying this but the traditional voice of the Stanley Cup playoffs is Bob Cole and Harry Neale. When Habs games are broadcast in English, I expect Dick Irvin Jr. to be on. The first intermission of the early game has to feature Don Cherry and Ron MacLean.

Tradition was starting to get there with TSN in the 90s. Paul Romaniuk was getting to become the voice of the NHL and IIHF in my mind. I enjoyed their production and their pregame coverage. I also liked that they showed non-Canadian teams. However, about 2000, TSN became too gimmicky for my liking Maggie the Monkey, Pierre McGuire and his stupid catch phrases and all the overhyping of a Wednesday night game between the Leafs and Carolina turned me off TSN's production. I also am not a huge fan of any of the play by play guys who do hockey on TSN.

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12-31-2011, 11:57 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post
What I don't understand is why the NHL still has exclusive rights deals for certain days of the week. If Jets or Habs fans feel like they are neglected by HNIC, I don't understand why the NHL cannot open up Saturdays to multiple broadcasters much like what the NFL does. The Eastern Canadian teams could be on one network and the Western Canadian teams could be on another network. They could alternate which gets the second game when an East plays West much like the NFL does with the late game.

Frankly, I could careless who has the rights to hockey on Saturday nights, since being a Kings fan I see roughly 2 games per year on HNIC. If anything, I wish the CRTC would quite being protectionist and allow cable systems to add US sports channels, top of my list is Fox Sports West.

But if anyone is to get the Saturday night rights, I'd prefer it to be CBC. TSN and Sportsnet lack the tradition that CBC has. They change broadcast teams as often as most people change their underwear that it is impossible for a traditional voice of hockey to be developed. I'm showing my age saying this but the traditional voice of the Stanley Cup playoffs is Bob Cole and Harry Neale. When Habs games are broadcast in English, I expect Dick Irvin Jr. to be on. The first intermission of the early game has to feature Don Cherry and Ron MacLean.

Tradition was starting to get there with TSN in the 90s. Paul Romaniuk was getting to become the voice of the NHL and IIHF in my mind. I enjoyed their production and their pregame coverage. I also liked that they showed non-Canadian teams. However, about 2000, TSN became too gimmicky for my liking Maggie the Monkey, Pierre McGuire and his stupid catch phrases and all the overhyping of a Wednesday night game between the Leafs and Carolina turned me off TSN's production. I also am not a huge fan of any of the play by play guys who do hockey on TSN.
All tradition starts somewhere. When CBC started someone probably didn't like it, and 50 years from now when TSN has HNIC someone think its been that way forever.

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01-01-2012, 04:15 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by canuckster19 View Post
Can someone explain to me the need to have an HD truck? If they're going to do all the Saturday Leaf games in HD, isn't it just easier to have the equipment there at the arena? Or is that some kind of logistical nightmare?
I don't know whether it's union stupidity or management stupidity, but it is stupidity. CBC refuses to use anybody else's video feed. Heck, at major sporting events that they both have rights to, CBC English and CBC French have separate camera crews, fercryinoutloud. And some people wonder why many Canadians want to get rid of CBC?

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01-01-2012, 09:24 AM
  #60
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The real question that needs to be asked is why the cost of sports rights is skyrocketing. The answer is that owners of these various leagues are doing their best to shakedown every wallet the can get their hands on. That is where the frustrations of fans should be directed towards.

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01-01-2012, 12:12 PM
  #61
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For the question of why sports continues to cost more and more... look no further than the Rogers & Bell acquisition of MLSE. People don't PVR and fast forward the commercials of live events.

The problem with CBC is that they are flawed as a network, and IMO it goes straight to the top of their mandate, in addition to just being poorly run. As far as I understand, they have stricter Canadian Content requirements (imposed by the crown) as compared to any independent network.

That causes them to air shows like Republic of Doyle, Steven and Chris, and 22 Minutes, which as far as I understand, have limited commercial appeal when compared to the American shows that CTV would air in similar timeslots. This really stems from the fact that the Canadian public would rather watch the american shows. That's the Canadian Content problem.

Why do the other shows matter? Because every Saturday night during HNIC, they air ads for those shows, despite those shows not having the revenue to justify the required spending to run an ad on Canada's #1 television property. There's a limited amount of ad space in a hockey game, and those ads run in place where more lucrative could be run, that's the management problem.

CTV's shows on the other hand, could justify the spending allocation for a spot on Canada's #1 television property (or at least come closer to it), which is why they have better bids.

That being said, IIRC CBC was outbid last time the contract came up, and the NHL stayed with them citing history. The real reason was probably the realization that if the NHL left CBC, they would never field a competitive bid again, and CTV would be the only player next time around (as Rogers did not have an appropriate network at the time). Who knows if that has changed substantially enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post
What I don't understand is why the NHL still has exclusive rights deals for certain days of the week. If Jets or Habs fans feel like they are neglected by HNIC, I don't understand why the NHL cannot open up Saturdays to multiple broadcasters much like what the NFL does. The Eastern Canadian teams could be on one network and the Western Canadian teams could be on another network. They could alternate which gets the second game when an East plays West much like the NFL does with the late game.

Frankly, I could careless who has the rights to hockey on Saturday nights, since being a Kings fan I see roughly 2 games per year on HNIC. If anything, I wish the CRTC would quite being protectionist and allow cable systems to add US sports channels, top of my list is Fox Sports West.

But if anyone is to get the Saturday night rights, I'd prefer it to be CBC. TSN and Sportsnet lack the tradition that CBC has. They change broadcast teams as often as most people change their underwear that it is impossible for a traditional voice of hockey to be developed. I'm showing my age saying this but the traditional voice of the Stanley Cup playoffs is Bob Cole and Harry Neale. When Habs games are broadcast in English, I expect Dick Irvin Jr. to be on. The first intermission of the early game has to feature Don Cherry and Ron MacLean.

Tradition was starting to get there with TSN in the 90s. Paul Romaniuk was getting to become the voice of the NHL and IIHF in my mind. I enjoyed their production and their pregame coverage. I also liked that they showed non-Canadian teams. However, about 2000, TSN became too gimmicky for my liking Maggie the Monkey, Pierre McGuire and his stupid catch phrases and all the overhyping of a Wednesday night game between the Leafs and Carolina turned me off TSN's production. I also am not a huge fan of any of the play by play guys who do hockey on TSN.
The NHL could do (basically) whatever they want once the CBC contract is up. If they wanted to split it between 2 networks that's certainly a possibility, but it may not be wise.

There's a lot of value (from an ad sales perspective) in holding the Saturday night monopoly. Furthermore, if the NHL were to construct 2 "packages", considering that there's only 2 or 3 major networks in Canada, the bids may suffer as a result.

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01-01-2012, 12:42 PM
  #62
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Could the CBC make a run with the CHL? Seems like there could be potential there. I really feel like Rogers doesn't know what to do with the CHL and CBC could really give it a boost, especially if it was under the HNIC brand. They already talk quite a bit about junior hockey and Cherry is a pretty passionate about it and like him or not he's still a dominant hockey figure.

Rights would be a hell of a lot more affordable too I would imagine.

I know a national broadcast probably wouldn't work well at first (which is what Rogers does). But they could probably do a WHL, OHL and Quebec/Atlantic regional broadcast on Saturday nights. Then grow it from there.

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01-01-2012, 12:47 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
To those arguing against protectionism.

Straight up, you're an idiot. We are already America lite. A big part in keeping us a nation is that a cultural distinction (however small) exists between us. To effectively get rid of a big part of that is death to the country. Nevermind the fact that we already subsidize the American entertainment industry by billions a year. Thousands of people's jobs only exist because if those laws.

Culture is a beautiful thing that should be preserved and cherished. The fact that no one cares enough to preserve it is sickening.
Thanks. Preciate it.

As someone who has made his living in the arts for decades here in Canada, the US & elsewhere believe me I empathize with your opinion. However, there are happier mediums & compromises' that can be made that wont annihilate the arts, film & recording industries in Canada that are far more common sensical & prudent than those that currently exist, all an entirely different subject & debate with respect to the NHL, HNIC & CBC's possible/probable loss of those rights. The fact of the matter is that when they do lose the rights, the void left will be filled with increased Canadian produced content, money previously going to the NHL funneled to the very community you wish to nurture, protect & preserve.

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01-01-2012, 01:42 PM
  #64
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All non-HNIC discussion about the CBC needs to end... take it to this forum:

http://hfboards.com/forumdisplay.php...ysprune=&f=160

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01-01-2012, 02:31 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
All non-HNIC discussion about the CBC needs to end... take it to this forum:

http://hfboards.com/forumdisplay.php...ysprune=&f=160
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...3#post41750453

Here. Continue the discusssion.

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01-01-2012, 09:53 PM
  #66
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The problem with CBC is that they are flawed as a network, and IMO it goes straight to the top of their mandate, in addition to just being poorly run. As far as I understand, they have stricter Canadian Content requirements (imposed by the crown) as compared to any independent network.

That causes them to air shows like Republic of Doyle, Steven and Chris, and 22 Minutes, which as far as I understand, have limited commercial appeal when compared to the American shows that CTV would air in similar timeslots. This really stems from the fact that the Canadian public would rather watch the american shows. That's the Canadian Content problem.

Why do the other shows matter? Because every Saturday night during HNIC, they air ads for those shows, despite those shows not having the revenue to justify the required spending to run an ad on Canada's #1 television property. There's a limited amount of ad space in a hockey game, and those ads run in place where more lucrative could be run, that's the management problem.

CTV's shows on the other hand, could justify the spending allocation for a spot on Canada's #1 television property (or at least come closer to it), which is why they have better bids.

That being said, IIRC CBC was outbid last time the contract came up, and the NHL stayed with them citing history. The real reason was probably the realization that if the NHL left CBC, they would never field a competitive bid again, and CTV would be the only player next time around (as Rogers did not have an appropriate network at the time). Who knows if that has changed substantially enough.
I'm not CBC has regulations to produce more CanCon, it is more of their choice. Seems to me in the 90s, they tried to become the same as CTV or CanWest (Global hadn't really become a network yet). I remember they had the rights to Fresh Prince of Bel Air, Golden Girls, Empty Nest and a bunch of other American shows. Seems to me this failed miserably, so they decided to take the network a different way and produce many Canadian shows. However, they have been involved in a few big budget shows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
The NHL could do (basically) whatever they want once the CBC contract is up. If they wanted to split it between 2 networks that's certainly a possibility, but it may not be wise.

There's a lot of value (from an ad sales perspective) in holding the Saturday night monopoly. Furthermore, if the NHL were to construct 2 "packages", considering that there's only 2 or 3 major networks in Canada, the bids may suffer as a result.
That's true the NHL could, but it does seem like they like to do exclusive nights. The Versus deal is exclusive Tuesday nights in the US, NBC has exclusive Sunday rights, TSN has exclusive Wednesday night in Canada and CBC has exclusive Saturday night rights. The exclusive rights on Wednesdays and Saturdays seem to cause the regional games to air at odd times. The Oilers and Flames go in the afternoon on Saturdays and at 8 on Wednesdays.

I do agree splitting the rights might cause the advertising dollars to drop. Conversely, you might see the opposite with other advertisers shut out of HNIC step up. The one that jumps to mind is Chevrolet. If I remember correctly, Ford is the primary sponsor of HNIC and I'm not sure any non-Ford brands are even advertised during HNIC. I'm also thinking you'd see beer companies that aren't Molson step up. I don't recall since I don't watch the HNIC pregame show (I think it is called Hockey Saturday Night), but I don't think it is sponsored by Labatt's anymore. So those sponsors might be chomping at the bit.

I guess we will see what the NHL does. I have a suspicion that so long as CBC is in the ballpark, they will get some sort of deal for it. I also think that any deal with Bell would require it to air the NHL on CTV. The NHL values network TV and if the deal is Saturday night hockey moves to TSN, it will be a no go.

The thing I wonder about this is due to technological changes, would CTV have a leg up because CBC has shut down many of their OTA repeaters? I do know that a few cities in Ontario and Saskatoon had their CBC OTA stations shut down by the CBC. Thus, if the idea is that the NHL would be available to the widest market, the CBC is no longer that option.

However, the one ace CBC has up their sleeve is that technically the CBC is the only network available locally in Newfoundland. It isn't a huge bargaining chip, but does help their case. From what I understand CTV as a network is only available on cable/satellite in Newfoundland through CTV Atlantic and Global comes out of Halifax. CJON (NTV) is local to St. John's but is an independent channel. I have a feeling that while most CTV programming is purchased by CJON, the advertising is controlled by the channel. So I'm thinking CTV would not sell the NHL to CJON and instead would force people to subscribe to CTV Atlantic so they would receive the advertising dollars.

I realize OTA is not a huge thing especially South of 60, but it is something that CBC could use to argue that they are the best option.

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01-01-2012, 10:34 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootmaster_44 View Post
I'm not CBC has regulations to produce more CanCon, it is more of their choice. Seems to me in the 90s, they tried to become the same as CTV or CanWest (Global hadn't really become a network yet). I remember they had the rights to Fresh Prince of Bel Air, Golden Girls, Empty Nest and a bunch of other American shows. Seems to me this failed miserably, so they decided to take the network a different way and produce many Canadian shows. However, they have been involved in a few big budget shows.



That's true the NHL could, but it does seem like they like to do exclusive nights. The Versus deal is exclusive Tuesday nights in the US, NBC has exclusive Sunday rights, TSN has exclusive Wednesday night in Canada and CBC has exclusive Saturday night rights. The exclusive rights on Wednesdays and Saturdays seem to cause the regional games to air at odd times. The Oilers and Flames go in the afternoon on Saturdays and at 8 on Wednesdays.

I do agree splitting the rights might cause the advertising dollars to drop. Conversely, you might see the opposite with other advertisers shut out of HNIC step up. The one that jumps to mind is Chevrolet. If I remember correctly, Ford is the primary sponsor of HNIC and I'm not sure any non-Ford brands are even advertised during HNIC. I'm also thinking you'd see beer companies that aren't Molson step up. I don't recall since I don't watch the HNIC pregame show (I think it is called Hockey Saturday Night), but I don't think it is sponsored by Labatt's anymore. So those sponsors might be chomping at the bit.

I guess we will see what the NHL does. I have a suspicion that so long as CBC is in the ballpark, they will get some sort of deal for it. I also think that any deal with Bell would require it to air the NHL on CTV. The NHL values network TV and if the deal is Saturday night hockey moves to TSN, it will be a no go.

The thing I wonder about this is due to technological changes, would CTV have a leg up because CBC has shut down many of their OTA repeaters? I do know that a few cities in Ontario and Saskatoon had their CBC OTA stations shut down by the CBC. Thus, if the idea is that the NHL would be available to the widest market, the CBC is no longer that option.

However, the one ace CBC has up their sleeve is that technically the CBC is the only network available locally in Newfoundland. It isn't a huge bargaining chip, but does help their case. From what I understand CTV as a network is only available on cable/satellite in Newfoundland through CTV Atlantic and Global comes out of Halifax. CJON (NTV) is local to St. John's but is an independent channel. I have a feeling that while most CTV programming is purchased by CJON, the advertising is controlled by the channel. So I'm thinking CTV would not sell the NHL to CJON and instead would force people to subscribe to CTV Atlantic so they would receive the advertising dollars.

I realize OTA is not a huge thing especially South of 60, but it is something that CBC could use to argue that they are the best option.
As far as I understand, airing significantly more Canadian Content then the standard CRTC requirement is part of their mandate. In the 90s they obviously had more American content, which caused people to question why the CBC was being publically funded.

The advertising thing is definitely a balancing act, they'll get more sponsors from splitting the games, but they'll get less from each sponsor as the sponsors can make the networks compete against each other. Right now Molson pays huge money to be the exclusive beer of HNIC -- that would drop dramatically if there were other Saturday Night games.

I agree with you that as long as CBC is in the ballpark of CTV, the NHL will continue to stick with them. The public reason will be nostalgia, the private will be that without HNIC, CBC won't be able to bid in the future.

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