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Gm #38: Kings @ Jets, 12/29/11, Post Game OT LOSS thoughts & tidbits

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Old
12-30-2011, 12:29 AM
  #126
Muzzinga
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why do all the wingers id give up considerable packages for all have to be in the west and most in the division so less likely to be traded. Ryan/Eriksson/Eberle/Couture/Iginla/Nash

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12-30-2011, 12:33 AM
  #127
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This game was very eye opening for the Kings. Regardless if it was a double header. They had a goalie that stood on his head despite lackadaisical defense, pitching a shutout in regulation and they still couldn't get the job done. They were given powerplay after powerplay including a full 2 man advantage and they still couldn't get the job done. All they had to do is score one for Bernier and they couldn't even do that.

It is impossible to ignore, especially with this roster. The fact that our offensive coach still has a job is unforgivable and is quite literally a slap in the face. This has been going on long enough and isn't specific to just this one season. This team needs a better mind behind the offense that can motivate the players, a true sniper that has a penchant for scoring goals despite direction from behind the bench, and a decent stock of forwards in the pipeline, especially along the wings...

Dean puts too much value on "character" and grit and not enough on skill. I know the guy values wingers the least, but he is really dropping the ball allowing the team to go dry with offensive skill on the wings. It must be rectified and soon, or else Dean will find himself waiting around for the possibility that another team gives him another 6+ years to rebuild them in a similar fashion...

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12-30-2011, 12:36 AM
  #128
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Well on the bright side, that 1 point got us a playoff spot back. In fact, it's pretty amazing that we still have a decent chance at making the playoffs considering how terrible our offense has been.

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12-30-2011, 12:37 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Dean puts too much value on "character" and grit and not enough on skill.
This is a very interesting point. It certainly seems like it at the moment, but what bothers me is, that I know that THIS roster is able to score many more goals.

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12-30-2011, 12:44 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Dean puts too much value on "character" and grit and not enough on skill. I know the guy values wingers the least, but he is really dropping the ball allowing the team to go dry with offensive skill on the wings. It must be rectified and soon, or else Dean will find himself waiting around for the possibility that another team gives him another 6+ years to rebuild them in a similar fashion...
Disagree,

He's recognized the problem, he brought Penner in, he brought Gagne in, he brought Hunter in on the off chance he might regain his scoring touch that he had in NY, he's brought Richards in, he brought in Williams who I believe had 20 last year,

Tell me again how he is dropping the ball and not bringing in skilled wingers???

You can argue that he needs to make a move, absolutely, but to say that he hasn't done anything to address the problem is ludicrous.

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12-30-2011, 12:50 AM
  #131
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to be fair, we havnt drafted any top players to come up. Moller was a mid draft pick, Loki was a late pick, Toffoli/Kozun/Vey all 2nd round or later, so we are hoping they turn into legit players rather than expecting them to. At least we have too much defensive depth to use though!!!!

I love having a nice young player in A-Mart sitting in the press box instead of being shopped to bring back a nice forward
Something has to happen to break the log jam on the blueline soon IMO. I think moving a young defenseman for a player like Michael Grabner would be completely acceptable at this point in time. Moving one or two of these guys to get a missing piece is supposed to be exactly why the Kings have been stockpiling defense for so long.

The Kings can't continue on much longer with Lewis and Richardson in the top six. They simply don't finish well enough.

Bottom line tonight - Bernier stole a point for the team. Good for him, it should build confidence going forward. I'm not a Kompon fan, but tell me how is it his fault that the forwards can't finish their chances?

The PP was pathetic because not a single player moves his feet with a sense of purpose. No cutting to open ice, no backdoors by the defensemen. The Kings 5-on-3 PP must be the easiest in the NHL to defend, because no one moves. The defense knows exactly where the passing lanes are at all times.

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Disagree,

He's recognized the problem, he brought Penner in, he brought Gagne in, he brought Hunter in on the off chance he might regain his scoring touch that he had in NY, he's brought Richards in, he brought in Williams who I believe had 20 last year,

Tell me again how he is dropping the ball and not bringing in skilled wingers???

You can argue that he needs to make a move, absolutely, but to say that he hasn't done anything to address the problem is ludicrous.
I completely agree. How many of you were dying to get Penner last year? No one could have predicted the awful goal output for Williams and Penner this season. Throw Gagne into the mix who should be counted on to get close to 20, and it's pretty lame to say that Dean did nothing to address the wings.

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12-30-2011, 12:55 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nex06 View Post
This is a very interesting point. It certainly seems like it at the moment, but what bothers me is, that I know that THIS roster is able to score many more goals.
Well, that is just it. I agree with you. It is why I am more upset with this loss over the previous ones. We were given every single opportunity possible and we have a really hefty lineup, probably the best we have seen since 1993, even better than 2001 despite Palffy, and we are falling on our face every single game. There comes a time when "close" is just no longer good enough. I think we have reached that point. Dean needs to stop harping on the locker room and get some real skill injected into this lineup. We are solid down the center, defense, and goaltending. Get us the skill we need on the wings. These responsible/character players are just not cutting it. I don't care if he doesn't have former familiarity with the players or if he thinks they will be disruptive in the locker room. We are set and primed for a playoff run and the locker room is beyond established. Get the player we need, fire this laughing stock of a coach, and get our offense back on track. It is that simple.

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Disagree,

He's recognized the problem, he brought Penner in, he brought Gagne in, he brought Hunter in on the off chance he might regain his scoring touch that he had in NY, he's brought Richards in, he brought in Williams who I believe had 20 last year,

Tell me again how he is dropping the ball and not bringing in skilled wingers???

You can argue that he needs to make a move, absolutely, but to say that he hasn't done anything to address the problem is ludicrous.
I never said he hasn't done anything, but it is beyond clear as day that he doesn't value wingers and has an insanely difficult time picking his players to fill such roles. He can't sign anyone, trade for anyone, or draft anyone that can produce at a legitimately high pace and it is clearly noticeable. He relies too heavily on past experiences trying to find players he knows that have fallen off due to injury or teams needing to make moves. He needs to bit the bullet and get us someone that can play today. Not two years ago, not someone he once drafted, not an injured player in hopes of recovery, and not a stop-gap. Someone that can play and produce with Kopitar and Richards today.

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12-30-2011, 01:01 AM
  #133
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Although I agree with moving someone from the blueline logjam for a forward, you have to ask yourself how much will it really help and whether is it not a deeper issue considering the evidence at hand. I don't think there are many teams who have gotten less in the last 2-3 years out of their team offensively relative to the quality of lineup.

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12-30-2011, 01:07 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
I never said he hasn't done anything, but it is beyond clear as day that he doesn't value wingers and has an insanely difficult time picking his players to fill such roles. He can't sign anyone, trade for anyone, or draft anyone that can produce at a legitimately high pace and it is clearly noticeable. He relies too heavily on past experiences trying to find players he knows that have fallen off due to injury or teams needing to make moves. He needs to bit the bullet and get us someone that can play today. Not two years ago, not someone he once drafted, not an injured player in hopes of recovery, and not a stop-gap. Someone that can play and produce with Kopitar and Richards today.
Can't sign anyone, trade for anyone, or draft anyone that can produce at a legimately high pace?

Hmmmm.... drafting, I will give you, but that's his philosophy, build from the net out, etc, we don't KNOW he can't draft wingers, Vey, Weal, Kitsyn, and Toffoli are too young, if NONE of them pan out, then sure, you can say that.

Trading? He traded for Penner last year, the same Penner that scored 20+ goals the past 3-4 seasons, he traded for Williams, the same Williams that had 20+ goals last year.

Free Agents, he signed Gagne, who has produced at a high level before, beyond that, not many Western teams can sign free agents, that's been established.

We get your frustrated, but seriously, what you want, simply isn't on the market right now, or if it is, it's insanely expensive, and isn't worth shooting yourself in the foot to do it.

It seems you want to cut off your nose to spite your face, and that is something that this organization has done far too long in the past and far too easy, and it's about time it stopped.

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12-30-2011, 01:17 AM
  #135
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Jets fan coming in peace. I thought tonight's game was great.
had both this and the Canada-Denmark game recording, and was jumping back and forth.
definitely kept us on the edge of our seats the whole time, unlike the Canada game.
Bernier played a heck of a game for you guys.

ps. I really like your new jerseys!

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12-30-2011, 01:18 AM
  #136
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Nothing out there to trade for that won't cost too much. I hope Lombardi doesn't ruin our strong point to save his job or please the fans. Semin isn't the answer and Parise will stay in the East.

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12-30-2011, 01:21 AM
  #137
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Just finished watching the game. I'm glad we got a point, we looked pretty good despite a few breakdowns. Pretty bummed we scrambled and gave up that OT goal. Bernier had an amazing game, and we haven't given up a regulation goal now in two straight games. I'm proud of both our goalies this road trip. They made their dads proud.

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12-30-2011, 01:22 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Disagree,

He's recognized the problem, he brought Penner in, he brought Gagne in, he brought Hunter in on the off chance he might regain his scoring touch that he had in NY, he's brought Richards in, he brought in Williams who I believe had 20 last year,

Tell me again how he is dropping the ball and not bringing in skilled wingers???

You can argue that he needs to make a move, absolutely, but to say that he hasn't done anything to address the problem is ludicrous.
Please do not confuse effort with results. This is his 6th year and he has not developed a single 20 goal scorer. That is most definitely dropping the ball. His wing acquisitions have pretty much all been busts as well. Just because he went out and traded/signed former 30 goal scorers, does not mean that he has done a bang up job. At some point these acquisitions have to perform and pan out.

He has done a solid job with the goaltending and defense, but as we continue to see, there is more to hockey than just keeping the other team from scoring. Last I checked no team ever won a 0-0 game.

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12-30-2011, 01:23 AM
  #139
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Ruutu would be a decent pickup if it didn't cost too much. Carolina has a decent amount of PMD though...

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12-30-2011, 01:25 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Nothing out there worth trading for that won't cost too much. Semin isn't worth the risk and Parise will stay in the East. Hopefully Lombardi won't make a trade to save his ass or please the fans.
You know people have been saying this for years right? "there's nothing out there worth trading for that wont cost too much." I don't necessarily disagree with that, but 1)that's why you take the bull by the horn when there is an opportunity to get someone (Gaborik) or 2)You develop your own (Lombardi has not drafted and developed a single 20 goal scorer in 6 years).

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12-30-2011, 01:28 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Can't sign anyone, trade for anyone, or draft anyone that can produce at a legimately high pace?

Hmmmm.... drafting, I will give you, but that's his philosophy, build from the net out, etc, we don't KNOW he can't draft wingers, Vey, Weal, Kitsyn, and Toffoli are too young, if NONE of them pan out, then sure, you can say that.

Trading? He traded for Penner last year, the same Penner that scored 20+ goals the past 3-4 seasons, he traded for Williams, the same Williams that had 20+ goals last year.

Free Agents, he signed Gagne, who has produced at a high level before, beyond that, not many Western teams can sign free agents, that's been established.

We get your frustrated, but seriously, what you want, simply isn't on the market right now, or if it is, it's insanely expensive, and isn't worth shooting yourself in the foot to do it.

It seems you want to cut off your nose to spite your face, and that is something that this organization has done far too long in the past and far too easy, and it's about time it stopped.
Vey, Weal, and Kitsyn were never really seen as potential top 6 players, they were taken with the probability of ending up on the bottom 6. Toffoli is the exception, but he is far from a sure thing. His skating has been suspect and he has been cut and passed over constantly by Team Canada, though not entirely his fault, he still has a long way to go. Dean just likes to draft his goaltenders, defensemen, and centers and then blow his late picks on wingers hoping one of them will hit. The only other player taken high with potential was Moller and we all see how that turned out. Dean needs to start focusing on wingers, if he doesn't see one at his draft location, he needs to create one via trade. Package some picks for another quality winger prospect.

I am not talking about 20 goal scorers. Mike Santorelli and Andy McDonald are 20 goal scorers... Not to mention his penchant for going after damaged goods from the discount bin and only players he is familiar with.

Gagne is the trifecta... Damaged goods, player he is familiar with from his past, and used to be good a couple years ago.

You misinterpret my post. I am not only suggesting we acquire an offensively gifted wing, which we had 6 years to do, but I am suggesting that we have a complete offensive shakeup of the organization. Fire the coach, re-adjust some assets to slightly favor offense to promote continuity in the future, and acquire a winger. "Not on the market now" was an excuse 4 years ago. It is not anymore. Not given the talent available and the amount of time given to acquire the player. By your definition, one will never become available. Bernier, Johnson, and a 1st can easily get you a winger, and would not be shooting yourself in the foot.

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12-30-2011, 01:29 AM
  #142
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Teams will be more open to trades at the deadline, unfortunately there's just nothing available right now. Gotta live with what we have right now. At least, we're back to gaining points again.

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12-30-2011, 01:45 AM
  #143
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Just read through the PGT now. So it's okay to bag on JJ this game, but not the Phoenix game? I thought he was equally as bad both game, but I got slammed for even bringing up his name last time. Guess I'm out of practice since I was gone for 7 games. I need to get the memos again. LOL

I hope once we get back home and Sutter can get these guys into practice with him that it will help our scoring. He has only had something like one practice with the team since becoming coach. That's insanity. Of course it's not all solved! There has been no time!

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12-30-2011, 01:55 AM
  #144
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Well, just back from game and it was pretty even. Both teams had their chances, it was a well fought defensive game.

And of note, I WAS chanting "DREEEEEEWWWWW", much to the chagrin/amusement of everyone around me (and did wear the Dustin Brown jersey, btw).

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12-30-2011, 02:05 AM
  #145
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Just out of curiosity, who in charge of hiring assistant coaches? Is it GM or head coach?
Since 2006, we've had 3 head coaches, 3 defense coaches, yet Kompon still manage to keep his job... wonder what the secrete is...

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12-30-2011, 02:09 AM
  #146
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Just out of curiosity, who in charge of hiring assistant coaches? Is it GM or head coach?
Since 2006, we've had 3 head coaches, 3 defense coaches, yet Kompon still manage to keep his job... wonder what the secrete is...
He knows the secret ingredient used in Dean Lombardi's spicy meatball marinera sauce. It's a secret Dean does not want going around.

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12-30-2011, 02:19 AM
  #147
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Im pretty much past being able to be entertained by the Kings keeping it tight when they aren't scoring. Once in a whole, sure, but it's basically been 6 weeks of this dry spell that became an epidemic about 3 weeks ago. Its a huge concern, and the longer we go without Kompon being fired, the more egregious of a mistake it's becoming that Dean didn't show him the door along with Murray.

I
Ya I understand what you're saying. However, you gotta "find something to be glad about".

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12-30-2011, 02:53 AM
  #148
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Im pretty much past being able to be entertained by the Kings keeping it tight when they aren't scoring. Once in a whole, sure, but it's basically been 6 weeks of this dry spell that became an epidemic about 3 weeks ago. Its a huge concern, and the longer we go without Kompon being fired, the more egregious of a mistake it's becoming that Dean didn't show him the door along with Murray.

I AM throwing a bone to Sutter though. Due to this ****-ass schedule they've had no practice time at all to work on anything (1 day over a 5 game stretch). They need a couple days of practice.

Because of this offensive drought, Dean doesnt have the luxury of waiting until deadline day to make a trade for wingers, but impact wingers aren't going to be cheap.
I really don't think the Kings need and IMPACT winger as much as they need a talented young winger that may be blocked somewhat in their organization the way Martinez, etc. are blocked in the Kings' organization.

I want Kompon gone too if nothing else other than turning the page and bringing in a new way to deliver the same message. I can assure you that Kompon isn't telling the forwards to peel to the boards every time they enter the zone.

I love Kopitar's effort on the back check and the hard work he does in his own zone, but he is so passive in the opposition's zone it is pathetic. He rarely works to get off the boards to the middle of the ice and is always willing to enter the zone, skate around the net and then pass it to the point.

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12-30-2011, 03:20 AM
  #149
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I really don't think the Kings need and IMPACT winger as much as they need a talented young winger that may be blocked somewhat in their organization the way Martinez, etc. are blocked in the Kings' organization.
He does have to be better than Martinez though. Martinez could play regular shifts on some other teams, but he is not THAT unlucky in my opinion. If he played like he played last season, he would not be blocked.

Quote:
I want Kompon gone too if nothing else other than turning the page and bringing in a new way to deliver the same message. I can assure you that Kompon isn't telling the forwards to peel to the boards every time they enter the zone.
I am certain that Kompon has been giving players some wrong instructions. I remember last season Kopitar played differently on PP one game and after the game he said that they decided to change certain things. I am certain that he didn't return to the good ol' strategy by himself, against Kompon's instructions. Same goes for all other players. It was obvious that PP was supported by both Kompon and Murray. Do you remember that Murray's stat... I think he said something like: puck should get to the net from the point more than 50% of the time. He called the mad shooting from the blueline the correct way to run the PP.

I can not imagine that players have been given good instructions and they just fail to follow them. Player like Kopitar can do pretty much anything, from technical point of view.

Quote:
I love Kopitar's effort on the back check and the hard work he does in his own zone, but he is so passive in the opposition's zone it is pathetic. He rarely works to get off the boards to the middle of the ice and is always willing to enter the zone, skate around the net and then pass it to the point.
I am not happy with his offensive effort either, but he is pretty much the only player on his line who can get the puck in. Both Brown and Richardson would have lost the puck long time ago. When opposition defense knows that, your options are more limited than if he actually had someone skilled on his line who could create space (see Williams Justin, former Kings winger)

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12-30-2011, 03:55 AM
  #150
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Penner is worthless, not helping out on that goal WPG scored. Jets were all over the net, and Willie couldn't hold em all off. So Penner was skating around the top of the circle waiting for the puck to come to him, when he needed to go help on D.

Got a point, but goddammit Penner...

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