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Does anybody else think the lockout will go 24 months?

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09-30-2004, 06:55 PM
  #1
Team Dandenault
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Does anybody else think the lockout will go 24 months?

At first I thought it would be 6 months, then a year, and now I think 18 months just means 24. Ironic avatar, eh?

I don't expect the NHLPA to give up because, well that's another issue; and the owners are dead set on a $31 million USD salary cap.

The sad part is missing watching talented players play the game.

The saddest part is watching full-time employees lose their jobs over this.

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09-30-2004, 07:14 PM
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Vlad The Impaler
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Quite frankly I don't think there is any chance of that happening.

I wish the owners had the balls to pull this off and crush the players completely, taking as much time as required but they don't have the balls required.

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09-30-2004, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Dandenault
At first I thought it would be 6 months, then a year, and now I think 18 months just means 24. Ironic avatar, eh?

I don't expect the NHLPA to give up because, well that's another issue; and the owners are dead set on a $31 million USD salary cap.

The sad part is missing watching talented players play the game.

The saddest part is watching full-time employees lose their jobs over this.
i still think the owner's would like to get the playoffs in this year - it would be on their heads if the stanley cup was not awarded this season - john davidson was on 1040 here in vancouver last week and said there is room to move on both sides - i think there is one thing to note - the players miss the first paycheck - oct 15 - the nhl has written off october - announced yesterday - so that will be two pay periods - having said that - the players will not cave - the hard cap won't work -

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09-30-2004, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Quite frankly I don't think there is any chance of that happening.

I wish the owners had the balls to pull this off and crush the players completely, taking as much time as required but they don't have the balls required.
from what I've read...all they need is 3 or 4 different proposals in the next year and the Union decline each one, and the owners can declare an impasse and blow the whole thing up and restart on the owners terms'

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09-30-2004, 07:58 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven_Nation_Army
from what I've read...all they need is 3 or 4 different proposals in the next year and the Union decline each one, and the owners can declare an impasse and blow the whole thing up and restart on the owners terms'
you're right - i just hope not

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09-30-2004, 08:12 PM
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Wouldn't American labor laws prevent a hard salary cap though?

Besides aren't these the same owners that have signed the likes of Brett Hedican for $19.2 million over 6 years? Al Yashin at $87 million for 10 years?

Nobody seems to discuss how teams like the Bruins signed players like Martin Lapointe for ungodly $5 million USD raises???

Has there ever been collective restraint on behalf of owners when offering contracts over the last 10 years? Lapointe? Turek? Hedican? Yashin? LeClair? Jagr? The offers to Sakic and Fedorov?

It seems as if the owners' new proposal of a CBA will be to only protect themselves from one another. The 1995-2004 CBA created this mess when some of the owners chose to abuse it.

If you're looking for the owners balls you might want to check their panties.

Of course I don't think the players have the fans best interests. The owners have the leverage here but I don't exepect the players to come anywhere near their demands. It would be foolish of them. That's why I think it'll be 24 months.


Last edited by Team Dandenault: 09-30-2004 at 08:37 PM.
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09-30-2004, 08:17 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Dandenault
Wouldn't American labor laws prevent a hard salary cap though?

Besides aren't these the same owners that have signed the likes of Brett Hedican for $19.2 million over 6 years? Al Yashin at $87 million for 10 years?

Nobody seems to discuss how teams like the Bruins signed players like Martin Lapointe for ungodly $5 million USD raises???

Has there ever been collective restraint on behalf of owners when offering contracts over the last 10 years? Lapointe? Turek? Hedican? Yashin? LeClair? Jagr? The offers to Sakic and Fedorov?

It seems as if the owners new proposal of a CBA will be to only protect themselves from one another. The 1994-2004 CBA created this mess when some of the owners chose to abuse it.

If you're looking for the owners balls you might want to check their panties.

Of course I don't think the players have the fans best interests. The owners have the leverage here but I don't exepect the players to come anywhere near their demands. It would be foolish of them. That's why I think it'll be 24 months.
the seven nation army guy is right though - they can declare an impasse after a year - they are also trying to determine whether the nhlpa is a real - union - at all - because in some states and provinces - like ours here in british columbia - the impasse ideal is against the law -

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09-30-2004, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr gib
whether the nhlpa is a real - union
I heard they are not a union. They are an association (NHLPA). They were discussing it on The Fan 960 in Calgary. I dont know what the differnece is though.

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09-30-2004, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cawz
I heard they are not a union. They are an association (NHLPA). They were discussing it on The Fan 960 in Calgary. I dont know what the differnece is though.
there are laws that state using scabs and - replacements players - re: nfl - is illegal - or unilaterally dissolving a - union -

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09-30-2004, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr gib
there are laws that state using scabs and - replacements players - re: nfl - is illegal - or unilaterally dissolving a - union -
Whats the difference between a union and the Players Association? Can you unilaterally dissolve an association?

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09-30-2004, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cawz
Whats the difference between a union and the Players Association? Can you unilaterally dissolve an association?
thats what the leagues owners are going to court to find out -

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09-30-2004, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr gib
thats what the leagues owners are going to court to find out -
Or are they a union, but they didnt want to be called the NHLPU, for obvious reasons.

I dunno.

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09-30-2004, 09:22 PM
  #13
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Going to court to see if NHLPA is a union or not? I'd insert a rolling eyes smilie here but even the potent force of a little yellow animated gif isn't strong enough to express the disgust at the waste of time such a move would be. Both sides need to quit screwing around and start doing what their employers pay them to do: get this mess sorted out and get hockey started. No more whining about how one side won't accept this so there's no need to talk. No more crying about how the other side only offers the same thing over again so there's no reason to talk BS.

If we lose an entire season over this, let alone two, the NHL will also be losing this fan's cash. I'll still follow the game, but I won't spend a dime on tickets, merchandise, video games, etc.

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09-30-2004, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
Going to court to see if NHLPA is a union or not? I'd insert a rolling eyes smilie here but even the potent force of a little yellow animated gif isn't strong enough to express the disgust at the waste of time such a move would be. Both sides need to quit screwing around and start doing what their employers pay them to do: get this mess sorted out and get hockey started. No more whining about how one side won't accept this so there's no need to talk. No more crying about how the other side only offers the same thing over again so there's no reason to talk BS.

If we lose an entire season over this, let alone two, the NHL will also be losing this fan's cash. I'll still follow the game, but I won't spend a dime on tickets, merchandise, video games, etc.
lawyers representing the league are doing this right now - mind you my source is sports talk radio but the league is examining all angles should they get to this impasse situation - john davidson said it - as said earlier though - i don't think the owners will blow off the playoffs this year - thats 100 mil -


Last edited by mr gib: 09-30-2004 at 09:29 PM.
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09-30-2004, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cawz
Or are they a union, but they didnt want to be called the NHLPU, for obvious reasons.

I dunno.
i think this harken's back to the eagleson era -

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10-01-2004, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
If we lose an entire season over this, let alone two, the NHL will also be losing this fan's cash. I'll still follow the game, but I won't spend a dime on tickets, merchandise, video games, etc.

Nobody cares what some average Joe like you thinks, or what he threatens to do, and thank God for that.

Besides, even if it took 24 months, once this is all over you'd probably come back despite your claims to the contrary. If not, that's your loss, in some comical attempt to "stick it to the man".

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10-01-2004, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Nobody cares what some average Joe like you thinks, or what he threatens to do, and thank God for that.
If the fans would come to their senses and the majority expressed the same opinion as Winger98, the owners would listen and attempt to make a deal. Since the longer the two sides wait, the less money there would be to fight over a deal would get done a lot sooner.

Quote:
Besides, even if it took 24 months, once this is all over you'd probably come back despite your claims to the contrary. If not, that's your loss, in some comical attempt to "stick it to the man".
Whose loss is it? The NHL owners are crying about losing money but they wouldn't be the ones with the loss if one of their customers decides to use his money elsewhere?

The fan is out very little since they can still watch the games on tv. The owners are out the money that the fan used to spend on the team.

Personally, I'm getting to the same point that Winger98 is. I'm about ready to say to hell with the league. I can't stop them from arguing over $2.1B but I can stop them from arguing about the money I spend on the league. I can say you're not getting one more penny from me. That means I'm not buying any more season tickets, out of town tickets, parking, concessions, merchandise, Centre Ice packages or anything else that will send money to the NHL.

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10-01-2004, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Nobody cares what some average Joe like you thinks, or what he threatens to do, and thank God for that.

Besides, even if it took 24 months, once this is all over you'd probably come back despite your claims to the contrary. If not, that's your loss, in some comical attempt to "stick it to the man".
While while you may find my stance comedic, I think I may find yours equally sad. You are basically saying that the individual shouldn't bother taking any stance because no one will notice. While true to an extent, I think an individual taking a stance on how he feels and thinks isn't a bad or stupid or funny thing. While it may not accomplish a whole lot, at least the person sticks by their general principles.

In this case, my case, I feel entirely disregarded by both sides who are too blinded by their own greed to come to a workable solution. While it might not be a lot of money, it's still my money and I'd rather spend it on something I would feel better about spending it on.

And I think it is naive to think that this feeling will not spread throughout the NHL fanbase if the work stoppage is prolonged. By the end my solitary Average Joe could find himself not so lonely and the NHL could be in worse shape than it was before in regards to attendance and popularity which would take a toll on its pocketbook. A callous dismissal of the Average Joe, the Average Fan, has the potential to do far more harm than good.

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10-01-2004, 11:02 AM
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if the NHL returns, and the price i pay for a ticket is lower, then i will consider this successful. if not, then this was a big waste of time.

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10-01-2004, 11:44 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
While while you may find my stance comedic, I think I may find yours equally sad. You are basically saying that the individual shouldn't bother taking any stance because no one will notice. While true to an extent, I think an individual taking a stance on how he feels and thinks isn't a bad or stupid or funny thing. While it may not accomplish a whole lot, at least the person sticks by their general principles.

In this case, my case, I feel entirely disregarded by both sides who are too blinded by their own greed to come to a workable solution. While it might not be a lot of money, it's still my money and I'd rather spend it on something I would feel better about spending it on.

And I think it is naive to think that this feeling will not spread throughout the NHL fanbase if the work stoppage is prolonged. By the end my solitary Average Joe could find himself not so lonely and the NHL could be in worse shape than it was before in regards to attendance and popularity which would take a toll on its pocketbook. A callous dismissal of the Average Joe, the Average Fan, has the potential to do far more harm than good.
Quite true, the MLB lockout was one of the main cause for the Expos departure (attendance started to take a dive...) and I think it did the same thing in the US (at least for a while) so we should think that the same scenario could happend
with the NHL. I dont think you would stand alone if the lockout last for too long...

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10-01-2004, 12:30 PM
  #21
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How I think the Lockout will play out...

The owners after sending 3 or 4 or more legitimate proposals to the Players' UNION and rejected each time by the UNION, the owners will then declare an IMPASSE, and bring in the scabs/AHLers start anew with younger players on the owners' terms, and say **** the PA

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10-01-2004, 12:33 PM
  #22
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
While while you may find my stance comedic, I think I may find yours equally sad. You are basically saying that the individual shouldn't bother taking any stance because no one will notice. While true to an extent, I think an individual taking a stance on how he feels and thinks isn't a bad or stupid or funny thing. While it may not accomplish a whole lot, at least the person sticks by their general principles.
I don't think it is stupid. Just futile and misguided.

If you're taking a stance because of some reaction to the fact these people are fortunate, rich, etc. then good luck with that. You must be taking a crapload of stances as a consumer and live like a monk.

If you're taking a stance because the league's balance is broken, you're too late for that. The lockout is there precisely to try and fix that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
In this case, my case, I feel entirely disregarded by both sides who are too blinded by their own greed to come to a workable solution. While it might not be a lot of money, it's still my money and I'd rather spend it on something I would feel better about spending it on.
Hmmm... ok, so it's the money thing. What, exactly, do you plan to buy from now on? Newsflash: it's the same situation everywhere. The monitor on which you are reading my post. The keyboard on which you will type a response. The breakfast you had today. The chair you're sitting in. Your clothes, your soap, your movie ticket, your shampoo.

What are you gonna do about it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
And I think it is naive to think that this feeling will not spread throughout the NHL fanbase if the work stoppage is prolonged. By the end my solitary Average Joe could find himself not so lonely and the NHL could be in worse shape than it was before in regards to attendance and popularity which would take a toll on its pocketbook. A callous dismissal of the Average Joe, the Average Fan, has the potential to do far more harm than good.
Nah, won't happen. We're precisely in this mess because 10 years ago the NHL worried too much about whiners like you and ended up paying through the nose as a result.

Smart fans know we need to crush the players and smart fans are willing to wait as long as it takes to have a more enjoyable, less quirky NHL.

You want a quick fix like last time? Your problem. You can rot as far as I'm concerned. I'm willing to wait as long as it takes if it means a more enjoyable NHL.

Besides, the longer the conflict the better I think the owners' chances are. I'm guessing any loss of fanbase will be easily overcome once the NHL is healthy. There's a world of people waiting to be exposed to this kickass game and a lot of potential.

If they fix what doesn't work, you can bet that interest will go up sooner than later.

I just think it's unfortunate that someone who suggests he is enjoying hockey, enjoying watching hockey live, enjoying hockey video games is going to stay home and punish himself if the owners have the balls FOR ONCE, to try to fix this stinking mess.

I'm just wondering how many such stances you've taken in your life and how many you will take if that is your philosophy on things.

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10-01-2004, 12:41 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I don't think it is stupid. Just futile and misguided.

If you're taking a stance because of some reaction to the fact these people are fortunate, rich, etc. then good luck with that. You must be taking a crapload of stances as a consumer and live like a monk.

If you're taking a stance because the league's balance is broken, you're too late for that. The lockout is there precisely to try and fix that.



Hmmm... ok, so it's the money thing. What, exactly, do you plan to buy from now on? Newsflash: it's the same situation everywhere. The monitor on which you are reading my post. The keyboard on which you will type a response. The breakfast you had today. The chair you're sitting in. Your clothes, your soap, your movie ticket, your shampoo.

What are you gonna do about it?



Nah, won't happen. We're precisely in this mess because 10 years ago the NHL worried too much about whiners like you and ended up paying through the nose as a result.

Smart fans know we need to crush the players and smart fans are willing to wait as long as it takes to have a more enjoyable, less quirky NHL.

You want a quick fix like last time? Your problem. You can rot as far as I'm concerned. I'm willing to wait as long as it takes if it means a more enjoyable NHL.

Besides, the longer the conflict the better I think the owners' chances are. I'm guessing any loss of fanbase will be easily overcome once the NHL is healthy. There's a world of people waiting to be exposed to this kickass game and a lot of potential.

If they fix what doesn't work, you can bet that interest will go up sooner than later.

I just think it's unfortunate that someone who suggests he is enjoying hockey, enjoying watching hockey live, enjoying hockey video games is going to stay home and punish himself if the owners have the balls FOR ONCE, to try to fix this stinking mess.

I'm just wondering how many such stances you've taken in your life and how many you will take if that is your philosophy on things.
you're right about one thing - it's the owner's -

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10-01-2004, 12:46 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAZY_FAN
Quite true, the MLB lockout was one of the main cause for the Expos departure (attendance started to take a dive...) and I think it did the same thing in the US (at least for a while) so we should think that the same scenario could happend
with the NHL. I dont think you would stand alone if the lockout last for too long...
The Expos left because we're not a baseball town.

Baseball is a highly profitable activity (I hesitate to call that fat ass joke a sport) for most town. Here it simply didn't work. Hockey is not a profitable sport right now for too many markets. It's really as simple as that.

It's the best sport on the planet and one of the most noble too. It deserves much better as far as stability, parity and health. There may be markets in which hockey will leave but just like the Expos, it will be because loss of interest. Their loss.

I highly doubt fans who care enough to register on a hockey *prospect site* will leave in massive amounts.

Hockey will have a couple of years to rebuild or even augment/renew their fanbase. What's more, this conflict is the ONLY way we can attempt to fix most of the incoherence in hockey that simply shouldn't exist. It's worth it.

If someone who claims to enjoy hockey would prefer no lockout, a great disparity between markets, players sitting on their lazy ***** asking for raise, 20 out of 30 owners losing money and no stabilty because weaker markets continually have to dump players, then he simply does not know what's good for the game he claims to enjoy.

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10-01-2004, 12:55 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
The Expos left because we're not a baseball town.

Baseball is a highly profitable activity (I hesitate to call that fat ass joke a sport) for most town. Here it simply didn't work. Hockey is not a profitable sport right now for too many markets. It's really as simple as that.

It's the best sport on the planet and one of the most noble too. It deserves much better as far as stability, parity and health. There may be markets in which hockey will leave but just like the Expos, it will be because loss of interest. Their loss.

I highly doubt fans who care enough to register on a hockey *prospect site* will leave in massive amounts.

Hockey will have a couple of years to rebuild or even augment/renew their fanbase. What's more, this conflict is the ONLY way we can attempt to fix most of the incoherence in hockey that simply shouldn't exist. It's worth it.

If someone who claims to enjoy hockey would prefer no lockout, a great disparity between markets, players sitting on their lazy ***** asking for raise, 20 out of 30 owners losing money and no stabilty because weaker markets continually have to dump players, then he simply does not know what's good for the game he claims to enjoy.
As usual, nicely said. I nominate you the most effective communicator of HF. Agree with it or not, you get your point across in a complete manner.

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