I completely understand that but there's so many people that refuse to accept that it's a personal thing with Torts. I think he employs an army of keyboard warriors that sit around and defend all of his actions.
Or maybe his actions speak for itself? He's got this team in 1st place in the Atlantic Division( easily the most difficult div. in the league take a look at the standings, 2,4,5,6 all ATL), while missing arguable its 2nd most important player behind Hank, of course. We're defending TORTS actions b/c his players have bought into HIM and are playing extremely hard for HIM and as a cohesive unit for HIM.
If the difference between the Rangers making a run towards the Stanley Cup or not depends on Avery, then we're not as good of a team as we thought.
Last edited by nyrfan1026: 12-30-2011 at 05:39 PM.
who here really believes Cally, Gaby, Hank, Staal et al are sitting around the Florida locker room upset that Avery has been waved and that the team is now in trouble.
yeah. Avery isn't a big deal. fans need to get over him.
Or maybe his actions speak for itself? He's got this team in 1st place in the Atlantic Division( easily the most difficult div. in the league take a look at the standings, 2,4,5,6 all ATL), while missing arguable its 2nd most important player behind Hank, of course. We're defending TORTS actions b/c his players have bought into HIM and are playing extremely hard for HIM and as a cohesive unit for HIM.
If the difference between the Rangers making a run towards the Stanley Cup or not depends on Avery, then we're not as good of a team as we thought.
We're a really really good team on paper and we're a little bit better with Avery in the lineup.
Torts has done a good job but his personal bias against Avery is not needed.
We're a really really good team on paper and we're a little bit better with Avery in the lineup.
Torts has done a good job but his personal bias against Avery is not needed.
Regardless of the bias, that $1.9 million that is cleared off the cap will come in handy when we need to add defensive depth for the playoffs. Moreso then paying Avery to be a perennial scratch.
There's really not much room in the lineup anyways. Hagelin has earned his roster spot, you need Rupp/Prust for size, Boyle's been great on the PK. Mitchell to some extent plays the same game to the extent from that which we've seen from #16 over the past 2 seasons.
But he comes exponentially cheaper.
I guess you could make the case Avery has a better knack for scoring; but thats where (we're hoping) WW can make a difference.
I don't really buy the whole "spark plug for energy" bit either; as I previously stated, if the team needs a spark plug for energy then they are not all that good to begin with.
This is the NHL, playing for an O-6 team in the greatest city in the world.
Three weeks ago Avery made a big mistake by pissing Tort's off with the locker room fumble. My source tells me that his mom was hanging around the locker room and Tort's was hot. They have team rules guys, and it sounds like he disregarded that rule. I will not miss this guy.
Three weeks ago Avery made a big mistake by pissing Tort's off with the locker room fumble. My source tells me that his mom was hanging around the locker room and Tort's was hot. They have team rules guys, and it sounds like he disregarded that rule. I will not miss this guy.
Regardless of the bias, that $1.9 million that is cleared off the cap will come in handy when we need to add defensive depth for the playoffs. Moreso then paying Avery to be a perennial scratch.
There's really not much room in the lineup anyways. Hagelin has earned his roster spot, you need Rupp/Prust for size, Boyle's been great on the PK. Mitchell to some extent plays the same game to the extent from that which we've seen from #16 over the past 2 seasons.
But he comes exponentially cheaper.
I guess you could make the case Avery has a better knack for scoring; but thats where (we're hoping) WW can make a difference.
I don't really buy the whole "spark plug for energy" bit either; as I previously stated, if the team needs a spark plug for energy then they are not all that good to begin with.
This is the NHL, playing for an O-6 team in the greatest city in the world.
If you really want to shed salary you move Wolski. He opens up twice as much cap space and doesn't really fit in the bottom six or the team's philosophy.
The teams will lining up to claim Avery on waivers if you read this forum. Too bad for Sean some of the people here aren't running NHL teams because might have a chance to remain in the NHL this season and in the future.
Avery was called up to cover for Rupp so Prust may not fight. Rupp is back. Also, Bickel can fight.
Too bad Sean cannot say hello to Zherdev. He should. Torts is a real GM in NY.
If you really want to shed salary you move Wolski. He opens up twice as much cap space and doesn't really fit in the bottom six or the team's philosophy.
He's proven he can score in this league. Hopefully, if he plays on the wing with Richards/Callahan he can get #19 out his little funk, as well as start putting some points on the board. That'd be a pretty big boost.
If he proves he cant hack it, then I wouldnt be surprised to see him being the next one shipped out.
With a guy like WW, you just dont waive him though. You play him to see if either he can stick and be productive or boost his value.
Avery has ZERO value, and whether he got his fair share or not, he wasn't going to stick around as a productive member of the team.
Like you said, Wolski doesnt fit in with Torts philosophy, and I personally believe he's far too weak both mentally and physically to hack it here in NY.
As an outsider who's not really a fan of any particular team, I have mixed feelings about demoting Avery.
I recognize that Avery has an expensive contract and by waving him the Rangers can clear up cap space which could facilitate a future trade. Ironically, Avery has, in a sense, become a victim of his lucrative contract.
That being said, I'm not convinced he was really given much of an opportunity to contribute. While I am not necessarily a fan of everything Avery has done, I don't think it's fair to expect him to produce more than he has, given that he's only received an average of seven minutes of ice time per game (which includes almost no time on the power play).
Luckily for the Rangers, they seem to win whether Avery is in the lineup or not. If they keep on winning, I suspect the controversy surrounding the decision to demote him will dissipate with time. Still, from my perspective, it would have been nice to see Avery given at least a couple of games with a little more ice time before management decided he wasn't productive enough to stick around.
Three weeks ago Avery made a big mistake by pissing Tort's off with the locker room fumble. My source tells me that his mom was hanging around the locker room and Tort's was hot. They have team rules guys, and it sounds like he disregarded that rule. I will not miss this guy.
I don't think anybody cares whether or not you'll miss him. If he did indeed break a team rule he should be held accountable. Being scratched, waived, and demoted seems a bit extreme to anybody that isn't on either side of this arguement. Tell me he's a high cap-hit and they're clearing space. Tell me he's a redundant piece. Tell me they're winning without him. Everything else is white noise.
What are they better at without Sean Avery? The record seems to show that they're better with him.
I'm not sure the record does show that.
The Rangers are22-9-4 overall and 10-3-1 with Avery. Therefore 12-6-3 without him.
Of those 14 Avery games:
- A win v the Habs on 05 Nov, but a loss against the same team on 19 Nov with him playing
- A win against Winnipeg, but the Rangers also beat them without Sean playing
- A win against the Sens, OT loss to them when Sean isn't playing
- Win against CAR, but that's also been achieved with Sean
- Win against the Isles, but they've won against them without Sean
- Loss against FLA, won without him playing
- Win against WAS, lost when he wasn't playing
- win against the Flyers, also beat them without Avery
- win against PIT, but we haven't played them again
- win against Tampa, but also played in a loss to them
- loss against TOR, also lost without him
- win against BUF, no other games
So MAYBE he was the difference between WAS and OTT, other than that the Rangers have pretty much had a similar record against the teams with or without Avery
The record seems to show that Avery has played in more wins than losses. Not that he had ANYTHING to do with the outcome of the game.
Stop pretending like he's their lucky rabbit's foot. He's insignificant.
Well, if his play has had nothing to do with the outcomes of those games then he must be their lucky rabbit's foot because there's no other explanation.
I'm not sure the record does show that.
The Rangers are22-9-4 overall and 10-3-1 with Avery. Therefore 12-6-3 without him.
Of those 14 Avery games:
- A win v the Habs on 05 Nov, but a loss against the same team on 19 Nov with him playing
- A win against Winnipeg, but the Rangers also beat them without Sean playing
- A win against the Sens, OT loss to them when Sean isn't playing
- Win against CAR, but that's also been achieved with Sean
- Win against the Isles, but they've won against them without Sean
- Loss against FLA, won without him playing
- Win against WAS, lost when he wasn't playing
- win against the Flyers, also beat them without Avery
- win against PIT, but we haven't played them again
- win against Tampa, but also played in a loss to them
- loss against TOR, also lost without him
- win against BUF, no other games
So MAYBE he was the difference between WAS and OTT, other than that the Rangers have pretty much had a similar record against the teams with or without Avery
Honestly, I don't think Avery's that much of a difference maker either and I don't put too much stock in the with/without record, I'm just busting his balls. However, the statement, "better without avery," still isn't true.
As a fan of Avery being on this team, my arguement isn't that the team is soo much better with Avery on it, just that there are worse players on the roster.
Torts has done a great job this season, but he also preaches an environment of everything will be earned, nothing given....well Sean earned his spot over some others.
I'd feel alot better about the whole situation and respect Torts alot more if he just came out and said the lockerroom wont work with Sean and I both in it.
Don't preach one set of rules for everyone, then hold someone else to a different standard...call it like it is, Avery did a good job, I just don't have a place for him on this team.
As a fan of Avery being on this team, my arguement isn't that the team is soo much better with Avery on it, just that there are worse players on the roster.
Torts has done a great job this season, but he also preaches an environment of everything will be earned, nothing given....well Sean earned his spot over some others.
I'd feel alot better about the whole situation and respect Torts alot more if he just came out and said the lockerroom wont work with Sean and I both in it.
Don't preach one set of rules for everyone, then hold someone else to a different standard...call it like it is, Avery did a good job, I just don't have a place for him on this team.
Exactly. I'm tired of all the bs answers as to why he's not in the lineup and then when you question those answers you get, "Well, Sean Avery doesn't make a difference so we shouldn't even talk about it".
As a fan of Avery being on this team, my arguement isn't that the team is soo much better with Avery on it, just that there are worse players on the roster.
Torts has done a great job this season, but he also preaches an environment of everything will be earned, nothing given....well Sean earned his spot over some others.
I'd feel alot better about the whole situation and respect Torts alot more if he just came out and said the lockerroom wont work with Sean and I both in it.
Well said. Torts' comical and disingenuous "reason" when he first benched Aves: "Sean played well for a while, but then he leveled off".
That was a crock. Of course he leveled off. He had his TOI cut to 4-5 min a game! When he got decent ice time, especially with skilled mates, he did very well. Torts is also a hypocrite b/c he wants jam, down-low pressure, physicality, energy.... he got that all with Sean.
