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2011-12 All Purpose Kings Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread II

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Old
01-05-2012, 02:02 PM
  #226
SuperAlmeida
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Johnson + Stoll + pick for Roy + Stafford?

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01-05-2012, 02:04 PM
  #227
The Black1963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Boost bottom 6 before you trade for a top 6 player.

Nuff said.


Instead of blowing 6-7-8 mil on a top 6. We should help out a bottom 6 that has struggled all year. and Bring in 2 or 3 2-3-4 mil players that actually do something.

That's why I said Stafford would be a great fixture on our 3rd. Young, averages about 40-50 points a season. 4 mil. You toss em Stoll or Johnson for Stafford + and we just double the scoring of our bottom 6 in one trade practically.
Disagree. We need a top sniper more than we need a bottom 6. I'm ok with our bottom 6 we have now.

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Old
01-05-2012, 02:14 PM
  #228
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Disagree. We need a top sniper more than we need a bottom 6. I'm ok with our bottom 6 we have now.
You're okay with our current bottom 6 players having 11 of the teams total 84 goals?

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Old
01-05-2012, 02:31 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
No it doesn't. That pure speculation and you know it. How do you know Philly would have accepted a different player, or that DL would have been willing to give up whoever Philly wanted in his place? Not to mention I'm not sure how you fit Kovalchuk and Richards onto this team from the start of the season. We were only about a Million below the cap IIRC at the start of the season, how are you adjusting this team to fit Kovalchuk in and still keeping Richards?
They would have taken Clifford + Schenn. How do you think Lombardi would have fit Brad Richards on our roster? Makes you think...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Stats AND cap hit aside, I'd go with Nash. But when you factor that cap in, I'll easily take Eriksson. And yes, you should care about stats. Everyone else in the league does.

Btw, the money doesn't fit well. It might fit next year, but that's a might. We still have to add in Quick's new contract extension, and at some point guys like Voinov are going to want a raise. Mitchell could be gone, Bernier as well, and we have to replace them, not to mention no one is suggestion the cap is going to go up at all. Add in a CBA extension coming, and it could be tight. You have to look at these things. A mod should know this stuff.
Don't get condescending. Money fits better than you think, go to cap geek. I am not going to spend the time on this frivolous argument, especially when I don't care about Nash, but the salary structure is much more flexible than you give it credit for. That is the advantage of signing our core long term and having the flexibility that Lombardi has designed for us all these years. The man is good with numbers, hence why he could go after Brad Richards...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Why do you think people say he's overrated? Because he doesn't produce to what he's expected. Of course there will be interest. They'd be interest from all 29 other teams in Penner for that matter. But Penner is overrated because his production and cap hit are way out of line. Same goes for Nash. Being overrated is not the same as having no interest.
29 teams would not be interested in Penner, only contenders with cap space would and only for nothing. The "people" you are referring to is just a couple dozen people spouting off on HFBoards. Go ask the people in the league, or Columbus fans, and see what they have to say about the matter.

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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
So where's the guarantee this year? He finally does have a supporting cast and he's having one of his worst years, not to mention the fact this is likely to be the third straight year his goal total has declined. That's your idea of a guarantee?
Still on pace for 25 on the worst team in the NHL, leading his team in goals. I'd also argue that his supporting cast isn't the best ever. Doesn't matter, because he is still putting them in the net regardless. Doesn't mean he is Lecalvalier all of a sudden because scoring in Columbus isn't as easy as it used to be and he gets double teamed every night. They do that to him in LA and Kopitar can freely skate the middle of the ice. If only that guy can learn to shoot and stay in the middle more often >.<

Columbus has only scored 6 more goals than us. We have a much better supporting cast and can give him much more ice. I don't care if he is putting up 30 assists. If he is consistently putting up 30+ on a god awful team that is sinking, his numbers look pretty darn good to me. He doesn't have the luxury of playing with Ribiero and Benn every night for 3 seasons, ironically the year he shot up in production...

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Old
01-05-2012, 02:34 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
You're okay with our current bottom 6 players having 11 of the teams total 84 goals?
Well, our bottom 6 under DS regime is better and I'm ok with it.

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Old
01-05-2012, 02:35 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
We're not far apart. I was thinking JJ + Lokti or 1st should get it done.
Probably, though Columbus just released a statement. Doesn't look like they are going to move key players, and I wouldn't be surprised if it stays that way, especially for Carter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Boost bottom 6 before you trade for a top 6 player.

Nuff said.


Instead of blowing 6-7-8 mil on a top 6. We should help out a bottom 6 that has struggled all year. and Bring in 2 or 3 2-3-4 mil players that actually do something.

That's why I said Stafford would be a great fixture on our 3rd. Young, averages about 40-50 points a season. 4 mil. You toss em Stoll or Johnson for Stafford + and we just double the scoring of our bottom 6 in one trade practically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
You're okay with our current bottom 6 players having 11 of the teams total 84 goals?
You are putting too much faith in Stafford tearing it up on our bottom 6 at the expense of Jack Johnson.

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Old
01-05-2012, 03:31 PM
  #232
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I was just wondering if we need Kevin Westgarth at all? He has played 19 games this season and only has one fight (29 pim).

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01-05-2012, 03:34 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by SuperAlmeida View Post
I was just wondering if we need Kevin Westgarth at all? He has played 19 games this season and only has one fight (29 pim).
They require a token team imbecile who commits needless minor penalties.

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Old
01-05-2012, 03:37 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by SuperAlmeida View Post
I was just wondering if we need Kevin Westgarth at all? He has played 19 games this season and only has one fight (29 pim).
Yes, we need him. He has publicly said he invited several times and had no takers. So that means just his presence means some protection for our players. I also think Westy has improved into a decent (4th liner) checking forward. Still makes some stupid mistakes, but he's certainly not as bad as last year.

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Old
01-05-2012, 03:39 PM
  #235
Jason Lewis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Probably, though Columbus just released a statement. Doesn't look like they are going to move key players, and I wouldn't be surprised if it stays that way, especially for Carter.





You are putting too much faith in Stafford tearing it up on our bottom 6 at the expense of Jack Johnson.
If it's Johnson going the other way for Stafford, I would ask for Stafford + a D-Dmen prospect or something. Johnson for Stafford straight up is not good enough.

But as it currently stands Martinez-Voynov log jam, with Hickey playing well and Deslauriers growing...something has got to give...and if we can move Johnson to improve the bottom 6 I would do it.

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Old
01-05-2012, 04:10 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by SuperAlmeida View Post
I was just wondering if we need Kevin Westgarth at all? He has played 19 games this season and only has one fight (29 pim).
Aaaaand... Cue Johnny Utah. Go!

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Old
01-05-2012, 04:27 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by SuperAlmeida View Post
I was just wondering if we need Kevin Westgarth at all? He has played 19 games this season and only has one fight (29 pim).
don't forget the need to do horrible ticket sale commercials and a myriad of player appearances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
They require a token team imbecile who commits needless minor penalties.
i thought that was why Moreau was brought in

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Old
01-05-2012, 04:51 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Tough to get equal value for any of those 3 guys. Ryan and Getzlaf seem to put it on cruise control way too much but I think the problem is their bottom 6 sucks and their defense sucks. Would love to see Bobby Ryan in LA but if any of those guys are traded I have to think it will be to an Eastern Conference team. Trading Johnson for Ryan doesn't help the Ducks one bit.
Hey guys... first time here. Telos might be right. It's a tactical move by their GM. However, if true, they need a solid goaltender in return. Though this is unlikely to happen, I will throw it anyway...

How does Bernier and a package to the Ducks for Bobby Ryan?

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Old
01-05-2012, 05:32 PM
  #239
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Aaaaand... Cue Johnny Utah. Go!
pretty funny... you been hangin' here to long

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Old
01-05-2012, 05:36 PM
  #240
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I don't know what the deal with Westgarth is...he didn't have a very good showing in his first game under Sutter and since then the Kings have played teams without a heavyweight....Colorado, Winnipeg, and Vancouver don't have heavies. John Scott played in the Chicago game and Westgarth should've have played in that one, but besides that those other games Clifford was just as tough as any one of those guys....ie, Glass, Weiss, Mcleod....

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Old
01-05-2012, 06:03 PM
  #241
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When looking at where to address the issues at forward, it is pretty obvious that the Kings are getting no help on LW throughout the lineup. Gagne has continued to be injury prone and was slumping badly. Penner has been a complete bust. Moreau is down on the farm. And Clifford is still developing, although his play has improved under Sutter.

So I took a look at a list of UFA to be LW's that Matt Barry put on his site the other day, and I thought two players stood out in terms of helping the Kings and the teams' they are on being good trading partners for the Kings. Here is the list:



From that list, I think Prospal (who has been mentioned in this thread already I think) and Travis Moen would be solid veteran additions to the lineup, and wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to acquire. I think going after a big fish like Parise doesn't make sense as a deadline move; given the uncertainty of the contract situation. Both Moen and Prospal are playing for teams well outside the playoff hunt, and I think could be had for prospects / picks.

In terms of salary, they are making around $4.1M combined. So with the partial season discount factored in, I think the Kings would have to move some salary to fit them in; but I'm not sure how much.

I'm thinking something like AMart + 2nd would get Prospal. And perhaps a Manchester player (Dwight King?) or the rights to Moller plus a 4th rounder would get Moen. What do you guys think?

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Old
01-05-2012, 06:11 PM
  #242
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Jay Pandawful is still in the league? O_o

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Old
01-05-2012, 06:12 PM
  #243
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Don't worry about bottom 6. Trade for two top 6 wingers like Ruutu who would look good on Richards line and a fast winger like Grabner to play with Kopitar. Even putting Ruttu and Grabner on Kopitar's line and an ex Philly line of Richards Gagne and Williams it drops Brown onto Stolls wing with Hunter for an upgraded 3rd line. I like our 4th line and Richardson can be inserted for bottom 6 speed when needed

Penner gets traded

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Old
01-05-2012, 06:37 PM
  #244
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That went over your head. Because that is what I am arguing against, and the words are clearly in your mouth (or hands... Or keyboard... Whatever.). Nash isn't high on my list either, but the fact of the matter is if we popped up and said "Doughty is available", there would be plenty of interest around the league despite his cap hit, the price it would take to get him, his diminished everything output, and questionable play. It is the same as if Columbus made Nash available. That's because the guy is only overpaid by a million dollars and is one of the best power forwards in the game. Bobby Ryan said a couple weeks ago that he is the best power forward in the game. He has 40 goal capability, is dominant in the offensive zone, and creates massive space for his teammates around him. Nobody is going to rationally sit there and say "pfft... He's overrated." and walk away, as what I was arguing about originally this whole time.

He is a leader that guarantees goals. I would be far more concerned over a player like Eriksson coming to this team and putting up goal than a player like Nash. Nash is a guy that doesn't require a supporting cast to do it.
I agree with you about Nash. I actually think he's become underrated.

I don't care who you are, it's very difficult to carry a team when the entire organization is mismanaged from top to bottom and is always in a constant state of flux. Nine years of that will take its toll on anyone. I think he needs a change of scenery more than anything.

Also, he implied in an interview today that he'd waive his NMC if Columbus wanted to move him:
Quote:
Nash was asked if he’d be willing to waive the clause if the Blue Jackets opted to make him part of the rebuild.

“That’s a tough question to answer in a situation like this,” Nash said. “I love Columbus. I love being here. I love being a Blue Jacket.

“The city of Columbus deserves a winner and deserves a good product on the ice. If it comes to that — like you said, all speculation — but if they don’t want me here, they want to move me? I’m not going to do something where it’s going to hurt the franchise just because I have that in my contract.”
http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/conte...of-career.html

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Old
01-05-2012, 06:41 PM
  #245
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Bottom 6 has looked okay since Sutter took over since he seems to balance the lines (third line of Penner, Stoll and Williams). Fourth line is okay, not great.

I'd like a winger for Richards to play with.

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Old
01-05-2012, 06:47 PM
  #246
DoktorJeep
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Don't worry about bottom 6. Trade for two top 6 wingers like Ruutu who would look good on Richards line and a fast winger like Grabner to play with Kopitar. Even putting Ruttu and Grabner on Kopitar's line and an ex Philly line of Richards Gagne and Williams it drops Brown onto Stolls wing with Hunter for an upgraded 3rd line. I like our 4th line and Richardson can be inserted for bottom 6 speed when needed

Penner gets traded
Grabner is signed for 5 more years, at a cap hit of $3M; and is coming off a 34 goal season. Ruutu is a UFA with a 3.8M cap hit. Even with the partial season cap hit relief, I don't see how just moving (or waiving) Penner get's the Kings under the cap, given capgeek shows them at about 785K or so under. Plus, who would you have to give up for those guys. With Ruutu being a UFA, probably not as much. But for Grabner, who is an 87 born and signed to an affordable deal with 4 years left; I imagine the price would start with a guy like Voynov; who has become an everyday player and has a ton of upside.

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Old
01-05-2012, 06:48 PM
  #247
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Bottom 6 has looked okay since Sutter took over since he seems to balance the lines (third line of Penner, Stoll and Williams). Fourth line is okay, not great.

I'd like a winger for Richards to play with.
Trevor Lewis sucks big time, and has ZERO finish to his game this year. Wouldn't you want to swap him out for a guy like Travis Moen?

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Old
01-05-2012, 07:29 PM
  #248
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Johnson + Stoll + pick for Roy + Stafford?
I have a hard time thinking Roy is tradeable when they need centers. And Id rather go for a proven sniper in Vanek. Johnson+ for Vanek

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Old
01-05-2012, 10:24 PM
  #249
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The Sabres don't need Johnson bad enough to trade their best player for him. I could see them dealing Stafford but Vanek will stay.

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Old
01-05-2012, 10:39 PM
  #250
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Bottom 6 has looked okay since Sutter took over since he seems to balance the lines (third line of Penner, Stoll and Williams). Fourth line is okay, not great.

I'd like a winger for Richards to play with.
I'd like to get Ruutu from Carolina.

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