It's funny though looking back on it. I criticized Marty a month or two ago at how mediocre, or horrible he was playing, and I got lambasted by most of the board. Even people telling me that Marty is off limits for any criticism, and is untouchable. Now I don't think he's playing so bad, and most other people are saying the things I was earlier in the season.
Like I said Marty has needed to be the best since 05. Post lockout. There were some years like even the year we won the Cup in 95 that he wasn't looking so good during the regular season. From 96/97 to like 03/04 we had a GOOD Defence. No forget that we had the BEST Defence in the NHL. Marty would take 22 shots on a busy night. So he would take 22 shots, and give up 2 goals. That's only 20 saves.
Nowadays this team is lucky to not face 22 shots a night if not more. The Rangers game was ridiculous that they beat us on 20 shots. Marty has lost games, and giving up 3 goals on 20 shots before though plenty of times. People just forget.
05 was really a test for him. It has been ever since, and he proved he could be a GREAT Goaltender without being guarded by a legendary Defence.
This isn't 20 games we're talking about. It's an entire season+ now. We don't need to bench him, but as far as I'm concerned, he's lost his starting role. It was going to happen sooner or later. He's 39 and has been the most played goaltender in NHL history by far.
entire season plus? this season is 21 starts old for Marty. The 2nd half of last season was spectacular once we dumped Mac. If you want to try and tie together 70+ games from multiple seasons to create your basis that's just wrong. This team lives and dies by the NHL season.
This team has not played well in front of Marty and they've played better in front of Moose on the season thus far. In the recent history of say a month they've been pretty even. That's called sample size.
Anyone who watches games knows this. Anyone who relies purely on fabricated mathematics to support their "insight" when it goes against the reality of game, the reality of coaching and the reality of the GM is just trying to get air time.
You go pull Marty from the game if you want to. I'd like to see it.
Marty's been fine as of late and has regained some of my confidence. I have no problems with a 60-40 workload right now.
I was not a fan of how he was playing earlier, but he's seemed to have leveled off a bit. I do think he's getting just over a 60-40 workload right now, so I'd like to see a little more Moose, but this thread seems kind of silly following a 3-1 victory.
Like I said the game against Toronto which was his first back I believe from injury, and his game against Washington the next week were his worse. Colorado was bad, but the whole team played bad that night. That was absolutely inexcusable for all the players on the ice that night. He gave up a bunch in Minnesota. They were tough ones though at least 2 of the 3 were.
He played great on breakaways on Grabner, and Okposo in the Isles game. I think he finally gave one up on like the 5th or 6th breakaway attempt.
Even Moose has given up at least 3 goals in his last 3 games. Being at the game against the Lightning a few weeks back he let one in that I was thinking ''Look how far away he was!'', and my buddy, and I were making bets how long until he's pulled? He wasn't pulled, but even vs Dallas he gave up 3. He also gave up 3 against Carolina.
This team really needs to do better Defensively though. I'm surprised Colorado can get 6 goals on 25 shots, and the Rangers get 3 goals on 20 shots. These same teams are getting 40 shots in other games, and not even winning! Marty played great against Columbus I was there. You hear Columbus, and you giggle, but Columbus looked very dangerous that night. It don't matter the team either only giving up 1 goal on almost 40 shots is not easy to do.
Criticizing the goaltending when the rest of the team doesn't seem to have a ****ing clue what they're doing in their own zone. Interesting...
This is a good point. Seriously how the hell do you give up a goal with just 45 good seconds in your own zone? I've never or not this season at least seen another team give up a goal with just 30 seconds or a little more in their own zone. Every time the Devils are in their own zone I'm on edge.
And yet Brodeur always gets a free pass, which is stupid.
If Kovalchuk was playing bad, he would be getting **** for it.
These kind of posts are why I can't take most Brodeur criticism seriously. First of all, Marty hasn't exactly been getting a free pass around here this season. Secondly, comparing him to Kovy, really?! Of the two, which one was the key contributor on three Cups and which one hasn't won a playoff round yet? The one with three Cups deserves a 'little' more leeway, no?
Non-Devil fans have been saying for years that Marty is a product of a great defense for a decade and a half. I'd initally fight tooth and nail to defend this, but a combination of age, wear and tear, and a lesser defense makes me question whether or not it was in fact the defense that gave Brodeur what he's accomplished. There is no doubt in my mind he's the best goalie ever, but I do tend to feel bad for him almost at this point. Its like a boxer who fought one to many fights, or Brett Favre.
Non-Devil fans have been saying for years that Marty is a product of a great defense for a decade and a half. I'd initally fight tooth and nail to defend this, but a combination of age, wear and tear, and a lesser defense makes me question whether or not it was in fact the defense that gave Brodeur what he's accomplished. There is no doubt in my mind he's the best goalie ever, but I do tend to feel bad for him almost at this point. Its like a boxer who fought one to many fights, or Brett Favre.
Go look at his seasons from 2006-2008 and tell me he's a product of the system.
Sitting him doesnt mean he will never play again, or that anyone is criticizing him. As per his age and from what we usually get from Moose I would like to see a 60/40 split in favor of Brodeur the rest of the season.
And this is coming from me, blind Brodeur homer number one.
I've always loved the argument "he's a product of the system". A goalie benefiting from playing behind a stacked defense or strong team, imagine that.... And then to think that he is the only one who has ever had this luxury. Please...
There have been many great goalies to win the Stanley Cup, but the common trait amongst all of them is that they don't win a damn thing
(not including individual awards) until they play on championship level teams. Look back at the past Stanley Cup winners. Was it strictly goaltending that won them the Cup, or were the teams just that good? 2 months of 4 rounds....you need a special group to get it done, including the goalie. Bad teams do not win the Stanley Cup. A great goalie can put you over the top for sure, but there needs to be a quality team first.
During that Niedermayer tribute of games on MSG, they picked some meaningless random early season game against Boston from late 2001. Just watching that game alone showed how damn good he was and that he has definitely slowed down these last few years. But did anyone really expect differently? He is going to be 40 in a few months.
This team needs to learn how to limit the really glorious chances against. They do a nice job of limiting shots, but when they do breakdown, it gets pretty bad sometimes. I think they're starting to get there. But either way, if they don't master the defensive end of the game, it won't mean jack **** who the goalie is. Both Marty and Moose will get the job done with solid play in front of them. The second half of last season is more then enough proof of that.
Last edited by nona weisbaum: 12-31-2011 at 09:59 AM.
Sitting him doesnt mean he will never play again, or that anyone is criticizing him. As per his age and from what we usually get from Moose I would like to see a 60/40 split in favor of Brodeur the rest of the season.
And this is coming from me, blind Brodeur homer number one.
Why did you shorten your name, Mr Blind Homer Who Knows Brodeur Never Does Anything Wrong number one?
that's basically the split already...like the split last season, go with the hot goalie. i dont care who is in net as long as we are winning.
Criticizing the goaltending when the rest of the team doesn't seem to have a ****ing clue what they're doing in their own zone. Interesting...
Um, this argument doesn't really have merit when Hedberg has handily outplayed Brodeur behind the same defense.
And no matter how bad you might think our defense is, it doesn't explain Brodeur's LEAGUE WORST performance over the last 75 games. No goalie has played as many games and performed as poorly as he has over that stretch.
And that horrible Devils defense is fourth in the league in shot prevention. Our defense is definitely better than people give it credit for. Unfortunately terrible goaltending has made it look worse than it is.
As a huge Brodeur supporter, it is hard for me to admit that there have been moments this season where I've expected more. The game versus the Rangers for instance, is one where I would have liked Marty to make a few more big saves to keep us in the game, instead of getting outplayed so badly by Lundqvist at the other end.
The wear and tear on Brodeur has cost him his game stealing abilities on a night to night basis, which is to be expected. This is probably his last year ever and I'm going to enjoy seeing the guy play whenever he does, I hope this team can give him one last playoff run before the road ends. No matter what happens the rest of the way, I see Brodeur as the best goaltender to ever play the game, and the backbone of this franchise for 17+ years
Every game is the same. Every turnover, every missed pass, every blown assignment in the crease, right down to every shot on net and screen. Goalies are just plug and play.
Every game is the same. Every turnover, every missed pass, every blown assignment in the crease, right down to every shot on net and screen. Goalies are just plug and play.
I agree with your point here. All shots, scoring chances, and saves are not created equally. Statistics don't (and probably can't) do enough to distinguish between them, which is why they cannot be a replacement for watching the games.
It's going to be a case of you don't know what you got until it's gone with Marty. And that blows my ****ing mind with some of our fans considering the years of excellence he has authored. Dude has been a rock for nearly 2 decades. But whatever, save% is everything, or so I'm told.
