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Real Talk: Alex Edler is a top ten defenseman

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Old
02-08-2012, 02:29 PM
  #76
sansbruit
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Originally Posted by sansbruit View Post
woo
finally our drafting is paying dividends
Sedins, Kesler, Bieksa Raymond Hansen, then Schneider and now the Hodgster
o wait I totally missed the point
and Edler
he goes between Sedins and Kesler

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Old
02-08-2012, 03:19 PM
  #77
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Top 10 defenseman?

He's not even good enough defensively.

Top 10 is earned. It doesn't count through the course of 1 season.

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02-08-2012, 03:29 PM
  #78
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Edler has played poorly defensively recently, he's a big part of why this team has struggled imo. He's giving up the blue line far too easily and has been very soft. Our need for defenseman has been greatly exaggerated. If Hamhuis and Edler are struggling, as they have been, it doesn't matter who we have on the third pair, we are in trouble.

Edler is what, 25? He will be a top 10 D-man imo but probably not until he's closer to 30.

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02-08-2012, 03:43 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Yup - though it's difficult to say how an Ohlund *in his prime* would've faired in THIS NHL (post-lockout) as he was showing signs of age in his last few years here.

The perfect shutdown D you want to play against the other team's best forward. Ohlund's mean streak was also an edge (not afraid to lay the lumber if provoked).
I've never really understood this storybook version of Ohlund as some kind of defensive stalwart. He was a good all around defenseman, but it seemed like in every single playoff series we had during his prime we got absolutely TORCHED by the guy Ohlund was ostensibly "shutting down". Certainly some of the blame can (and must) be attributed to the guy between the pipes, but great defensemen can make even poor goaltenders look magnificent.

I honestly think the guy was persistently miscast as a shutdown D. Willie Mitchell was far, far more effective in the same role.

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Old
02-08-2012, 03:52 PM
  #80
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Now tied for second in defenseman scoring with Brian Campbell (though he has 4 more goals than him). 7 G 30 A in 53GP.

Go Edler!

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Old
02-08-2012, 04:02 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by BloatedGuppy View Post
I've never really understood this storybook version of Ohlund as some kind of defensive stalwart. He was a good all around defenseman, but it seemed like in every single playoff series we had during his prime we got absolutely TORCHED by the guy Ohlund was ostensibly "shutting down". Certainly some of the blame can (and must) be attributed to the guy between the pipes, but great defensemen can make even poor goaltenders look magnificent.

I honestly think the guy was persistently miscast as a shutdown D. Willie Mitchell was far, far more effective in the same role.
I guess it depends how you look at it. IMO Ohlund and Jovo were both very underrated. Neither had a great or consistent partner to play with or a very good team overall. Even when we were decent during the west coast express days, it's laughable to look back and see how much more talent the Detroits and Colorados of the world had.

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Old
02-08-2012, 04:12 PM
  #82
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this should probably be in here

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-norris-trophy


Pierre Lebrun ranks Edler 4th for norris.

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Old
02-08-2012, 04:41 PM
  #83
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Edler is our best defenseman with future potential and scoring talent. Hamhuis is our reliable guy who puts up the minutes and 9 times out of 10 will be the man we need by the net to make sure it doesn't go in. Bieksa is our clutch ace in the hole. When he plays bad, he costs us, but when he comes through, he comes through big and in a flashy way. Salo is the player on our team we wish was 10 years younger, but with the same talent as currently, unfortunately the poor guy seems to have a bullseye on his back for weird injuries.

Tanev and Connauton are our future 1/2/3 D.

Basically, Edler has it set for him to be our #1. It's pretty much handed to him. He needs to just rise himself up to the challenge which I think he will do. However, is he one now? No. Give him time and it'll happen.

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Old
02-08-2012, 05:28 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I wouldn't put Karlsson anywhere near Edler. His defence is very subpar. Since Markov is never healthy I'd take him off too. Agree with the rest.
That means that there are 6 clearly ahead of him. Then maybe Yandle and Letang. I'd probably put him after that with maybe Seabrook and Staal and ahead of Doughty at this point. Soon Lidstrom and Pronger will probably be out of that group although who knows with Lidstrom.
Have you watched many Sens games this year? I don't think there's any doubt that Karlsson is the best D-man in the league this year. That's not taking anything away from Edler, who has been great, but Karlsson is #1 and not just because of his offensive numbers.

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Old
02-08-2012, 06:52 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Dreamskull View Post
this should probably be in here

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-norris-trophy


Pierre Lebrun ranks Edler 4th for norris.
That seems entirely reasonable to me.

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Old
02-08-2012, 07:10 PM
  #86
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duncan keith won a norris and he's still not consistent. some of you value individual consistency too highly compared to overall contribution to the team

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02-08-2012, 07:54 PM
  #87
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I would peg him around 9-12 based on his all-around game, which clearly puts him as a "Number 1" defenseman.

I think those who worry about his lack of defensive consistency perhaps seem to be forgetting to realize that even guys like Lidstrom, Keith, Weber, Boyle, and others haven't been all that consistent defensively (though still above average) this year.

Edler does have to keep working on his defensive game, right now he's behind Hamhuis and Salo in that regard.

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Old
02-08-2012, 08:32 PM
  #88
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I dont think its a question of consistency with Edler, its responsibility.

To me a #1 defensman is a guy that matches the others teams best players, every shift, night in - night out.

Edler is not that yet. Until he does all his own 'heavy lifting' he will be a very good defensman teetering on the top 10, but he's probably just outside that level right now.

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Old
02-08-2012, 08:45 PM
  #89
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I really don't know what some of you expect. As some people have already stated, NO defenseman in this league is perfect all the way throughout the season. The people that laugh when someone says something like a "Jr. Lidstrom" comment are the same people that seem to be expecting a Lidstrom level performance out of Edler before giving him his dues. Irony at its finest.

I look at it like this. Edler is not necessarily an ELITE defenseman, but he is a #1 defenseman. The same thing can be said about #1 centers. Just because Mikko Koivu is not in the league of Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Stamkos or our very own Sedin, it doesn't mean he's not a #1 center. There are the absolute elite and then there are the rest of the top level players.


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Old
02-08-2012, 08:48 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
I really don't know what some of you expect. As some people have already stated, NO defenseman in this league is perfect all the way throughout the season. The people that laugh when someone says something like a "Jr. Lidstrom" comment are the same people that seem to be expecting a Lidstrom level performance out of Edler before giving him his dues. Irony at his finest.

I look at it like this. Edler is not necessarily an ELITE defenseman, but he is a #1 defenseman. The same thing can be said about #1 centers. Just because Mikko Koivu is not in the league of Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Stamkos or our very own Sedin, it doesn't mean he's not a #1 center. There are the absolute elite and then there are the rest of the top level players.
This pretty much, he's a #1 no doubt, but he is not an Elite like Weber, or Lidstrom or Chara. Those are few and far between.

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02-08-2012, 08:48 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I dont think its a question of consistency with Edler, its responsibility.

To me a #1 defensman is a guy that matches the others teams best players, every shift, night in - night out.

Edler is not that yet. Until he does all his own 'heavy lifting' he will be a very good defensman teetering on the top 10, but he's probably just outside that level right now.
I'm not sure. If we're talking about the Norris, it is awarded based on all-around ability. The team just happens to have a better alternative for the shutdown role in Hamhuis (on the left side), freeing Edler to have a more offensive-oriented role. I don't think that should take away from his all-around ability.

The question is: If pressed, would you be comfortable with Edler in a shutdown role? In my opinion, it would be yes.

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02-08-2012, 08:53 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I dont think its a question of consistency with Edler, its responsibility.

To me a #1 defensman is a guy that matches the others teams best players, every shift, night in - night out.

Edler is not that yet. Until he does all his own 'heavy lifting' he will be a very good defensman teetering on the top 10, but he's probably just outside that level right now.
Isn't responsibility kind of up to the coach? AV has decided to give shutdown duties to the Hamhuis-Bieksa pairing not only because they can but because that's pretty much their forte. They're not necessarily offensive defensemen so they might as well be the designated shutdown guys. Edler, on the other hand, is the team's best offensive defenseman so he's needed to play the role of getting the puck up the ice and helping the forwards create offensive chances.

The other issue is Edler's partner is Salo, who is older and quite brittle, so AV is not in a position to give Edler those top shutdown minutes because that would mean Salo would have to play those minutes as well.

At the end of the day, AV has found the perfect solution. He has another pairing that he can look to for shutdown duties, leaving his best defenseman free.

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Old
02-08-2012, 09:03 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
duncan keith won a norris and he's still not consistent. some of you value individual consistency too highly compared to overall contribution to the team
This.

It's a long season, he doesn't need to play Norris calibre D through out the season to be viewed as "consistent"; I view consistency on the basis that he's playing solid D on a game to game basis, and scoring at about a 50 point pace, which he's capable of- he's doing both right now. As long as he turns on beast mode in the playoffs is all that matters to me. I believe he won't ever quite get the recognition he deserves though.

Having said that, I do want him to be a consistent beast in the playoffs lol...but when the Canucks play poorly in the playoffs it's often a team effort.

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02-08-2012, 09:12 PM
  #94
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I see it like this. You would HOPE that there would be 10 defensemen in the league significantly better than Edler is right now in any given year, but there probably isn't. The guy's pretty well-rounded.

It's tough to decide what standard you use to judge defensemen. You could easily argue that Hamhuis or Salo are the better defensemen, but you could also easily argue they're not.

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02-08-2012, 09:21 PM
  #95
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Edler is a great talent no doubt. IMO, there are too many nights that he doesn't have a positive impact on the game. IMO he makes as many mistakes as Bieksa without the same amount of "big" plays or responsibility.

When we need a big hit (like when a twin gets run over) he needs to rise to the occasion. When we need a big goal, he needs to make something happen. When we are protecting a lead, he needs tighten up defensively. I don't see enough of this in his game to consider him a top defenseman in the league. Really good but not great. Yet.

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02-08-2012, 09:22 PM
  #96
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I also think it's kind of comical that some of the "experts" here don't even consider Edler a #1 defenseman, yet Pierre LeBrun - one of the most respected hockey analysts and insiders in the business - thinks Edler is in the Norris mix.

I think I'll go with Pierre's analysis, not that of some average joes on a message board.

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Old
02-08-2012, 09:29 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
I also think it's kind of comical that some of the "experts" here don't even consider Edler a #1 defenseman, yet Pierre LeBrun - one of the most respected hockey analysts and insiders in the business - thinks Edler is in the Norris mix.

I think I'll go with Pierre's analysis, not that of some average joes on a message board.
Did you read the title of the thread?

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02-08-2012, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Did you read the title of the thread?
Yes I did.

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Old
02-08-2012, 09:38 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
Yes I did.
K good. I wasn't sure because you're referring to him being a #1 or not, and that wasn't the question. I think we have 4 #1's on any given night they could all fall in the top 30 in the league. I think that's part of the problem that some of us have in calling him a top 10 guy, he isn't the best defenseman on his own team a lot of nights.

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02-08-2012, 09:46 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
K good. I wasn't sure because you're referring to him being a #1 or not, and that wasn't the question. I think we have 4 #1's on any given night they could all fall in the top 30 in the league. I think that's part of the problem that some of us have in calling him a top 10 guy, he isn't the best defenseman on his own team a lot of nights.
I think there are quite a few strictly defensive defensemen that are actually better defensively than some of the top all around defensemen in the game. For instance, I'm no hockey expert, but I would think a guy like Hal Gill is actually better, strictly defensively speaking, than Duncan Keith, yet Keith is considered to be a top 10 defenseman. Why? It's because he's the full package. He's got an all around skill set.

So yes, Hamhuis may be strictly better defensively than Edler, but not by much, and Edler is superior in pretty much every other facet. That's what makes Edler all around a better defenseman than Hamhuis.

That's my take on it anyways.

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