HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

ATD Trade Review Thread

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-28-2012, 09:02 PM
  #276
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,482
vCash: 500
Both of them?

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2012, 09:29 PM
  #277
Velociraptor
Registered User
 
Velociraptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Maritimes
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,670
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Sorry for being slow to this. I think the trade is ok.
Me too, the Bugg trade is a bit questionable, but I think when looked at from a 23 pick jump in the 80's is pretty big, and he reeled in a very nice offensive piece in Dionne, that can make up for lost picks in the future.

Velociraptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2012, 10:08 PM
  #278
vancityluongo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,338
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Both of them?
Yup.

I see no reason at all to hold the draft up over this. Keep things moving while we discuss this, and if needed, then Bugg and LF can do a swap of 20th round picks or something to balance it out.

But I don't really see the need to do that.

vancityluongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2012, 10:14 PM
  #279
Leafs Forever
Registered User
 
Leafs Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,781
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Yup.

I see no reason at all to hold the draft up over this. Keep things moving while we discuss this, and if needed, then Bugg and LF can do a swap of 20th round picks or something to balance it out.

But I don't really see the need to do that.
That's a fair point. Perhaps in future disputes we should just move on and operate under the assumption the deal can be renegotiated?

In doing that, perhaps an "Approved until disapproved" might be a better procedure than "Disapproved until approved". Though that shoul be discussed more.

Edit: Is that enough approval for the deal for us to keep going now?


Last edited by Leafs Forever: 01-28-2012 at 10:28 PM.
Leafs Forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2012, 11:11 PM
  #280
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Sorry for being slow to this. I think the trade is ok.
I don't like either one, but neither is veto worthy.

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-28-2012, 11:24 PM
  #281
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,482
vCash: 500
We will tentatively accept them

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 01:07 AM
  #282
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
I'm ok with the trades, as-is. Part of freedom is having the right to make mistakes. I think LF made an overgenerous trade for a questionable player and that Bugg is an annoying miser, but the deal isn't unbalancing from my point of view. The other deal is just fine.

Sturminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 01:09 AM
  #283
BillyShoe1721
Terriers
 
BillyShoe1721's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,717
vCash: 10000
Send a message via AIM to BillyShoe1721
Looking for one of the next few picks, but only interested in one player.

BillyShoe1721 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 02:58 AM
  #284
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,482
vCash: 500
Looking trade back from 98.. PM me with offers. I'll deal with them when I wake up

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 10:28 AM
  #285
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
That's a fair point. Perhaps in future disputes we should just move on and operate under the assumption the deal can be renegotiated?

In doing that, perhaps an "Approved until disapproved" might be a better procedure than "Disapproved until approved". Though that shoul be discussed more.

Edit: Is that enough approval for the deal for us to keep going now?
Trades are assumed approved until disapproved. Notice how we moved on from your Dionne trade.

The problem is that you were involved in 2 trades on the clock in 3 picks and specifically told us the trade on your clock (the second one) was only valid if the first one was confirmed.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 11:13 AM
  #286
Leafs Forever
Registered User
 
Leafs Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,781
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Trades are assumed approved until disapproved. Notice how we moved on from your Dionne trade.

The problem is that you were involved in 2 trades on the clock in 3 picks and specifically told us the trade on your clock (the second one) was only valid if the first one was confirmed.
I got confused with the "Dionne is still Mr Bugg's property" line.

Leafs Forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 11:32 AM
  #287
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 39,482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
I got confused with the "Dionne is still Mr Bugg's property" line.
In other words, the draft moves on while we evaluate the trade and the draft moving on doesn't mean we accept your trade. On the clock trades are not exempt from review.

If you hadn't followed up the trade on Bugg's clock at 87 with a trade on your own clock at 89 that was only valid if the trade at 89 went through, we would have been fine.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 01-29-2012 at 11:42 AM.
TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 11:38 AM
  #288
vecens24
Registered User
 
vecens24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 5,002
vCash: 500
Pick 100 might be available. Shoot me an offer if you're interested.

Offers have to come before my being on the clock. I'm just not dealing with that again.


Last edited by vecens24: 01-29-2012 at 11:45 AM.
vecens24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 01:26 PM
  #289
Leafs Forever
Registered User
 
Leafs Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,781
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
In other words, the draft moves on while we evaluate the trade and the draft moving on doesn't mean we accept your trade. On the clock trades are not exempt from review.

If you hadn't followed up the trade on Bugg's clock at 87 with a trade on your own clock at 89 that was only valid if the trade at 89 went through, we would have been fine.
Well I won't make the mistake again. I thought it was not allowable to start dealing away picks for a trade that had not been yet approved in this instance, but I was mistaken.


Quote:
I'm ok with the trades, as-is. Part of freedom is having the right to make mistakes. I think LF made an overgenerous trade for a questionable player and that Bugg is an annoying miser, but the deal isn't unbalancing from my point of view. The other deal is just fine.
What makes Dionne at #87 'questionable', especially in a 2nd line centre role? He has problems, but his strength is overwhelming at that spot.

Leafs Forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 02:09 PM
  #290
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
He has problems, but his strength is overwhelming at that spot.
As is his weakness.

Dionne is easily better than the 87th best player of all-time if we were making an HOH list. The ATD, however, is absolutely full of nasty checkers, and Dionne never dealt well with that. Unless your first line is very strong, I think a lot of teams will deploy their evillest checking centers against the Dionne line on the theory that they're more likely to shut him down than Boucher, and they'll probably be right. It's what I would do.

Somebody someday will get it right with Dionne, but I think he is the hardest of the elite players to build around...harder even than Coffey. I think he needs a first line strong enough to pull the checking attention and he needs at least one linemate who can really throw 'em, because he will get picked on at every opportunity. The kind of winger who Dionne needs to survive usually comes at a premium, so you tend to give back some of what you win in value with him. Dionne could end up being the pick of the draft at #87, but that's a lot of headache to accomodate one player.

So yeah...questionable. Not in terms of talent, but in terms of how you get the best out of him in the ATD, which is not only playoff-focused, but also filled with aggressive, physical players.

Sturminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 02:22 PM
  #291
Leafs Forever
Registered User
 
Leafs Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,781
vCash: 500
I wasn't old enough to watch him, but did Dionne really struggle that much against heavy checking? It's not secret that LA was pretty much a one-line and one-player team; if you shut-down Dionne you're probably going to win. But despite that Dionne was remarkably consistent in his regular season dominance. He is also well-regarded as not being a soft player, and willing to go into the hard areas to score.

Leafs Forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 03:50 PM
  #292
DoMakc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 938
vCash: 500
Still looking to move down from 109th.

DoMakc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 06:00 PM
  #293
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,798
vCash: 500
Conditional Trade:
To Minnesota Fighting Saints: 109th overall and 211th overall
To Atlanta Thrashers: 117th overal and 181st overall

DoMakc to confirm

DoMakc is aware of the condition so either of us can validate and pick if need be.

__________________
Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
Nalyd Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 06:04 PM
  #294
DoMakc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 938
vCash: 500
Confirmed

DoMakc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 06:44 PM
  #295
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Conditional Trade:
To Minnesota Fighting Saints: 109th overall and 211th overall
To Atlanta Thrashers: 117th overal and 181st overall

DoMakc to confirm

DoMakc is aware of the condition so either of us can validate and pick if need be.
Looks good to me btw.

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-29-2012, 07:06 PM
  #296
EagleBelfour
Registered User
 
EagleBelfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,233
vCash: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Conditional Trade:
To Minnesota Fighting Saints: 109th overall and 211th overall
To Atlanta Thrashers: 117th overal and 181st overall
I'm looking to move up a little bit from 115th (105-to-113, something like that), and I'm ready to give a return around that value. Obviously, the biggest the difference our first set of highest picks, the bigger the difference of picks of the second set of picks.

EagleBelfour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2012, 02:52 AM
  #297
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
I wasn't old enough to watch him, but did Dionne really struggle that much against heavy checking? It's not secret that LA was pretty much a one-line and one-player team; if you shut-down Dionne you're probably going to win. But despite that Dionne was remarkably consistent in his regular season dominance. He is also well-regarded as not being a soft player, and willing to go into the hard areas to score.
I think HO has already said most of what needs to be said about Dionne in the main thread, but as you asked me, I'll tell you what I "know". I lived on the east coast during Dionne's prime, so I'm hardly an expert on his career (I don't know that there are many...the Kings didn't have the world's most robust fanbase at the time), but I'll give you the "common knowledge" of the time about Dionne.

Basically, a lot of people believed that Dionne feasted on the bad teams and struggled against teams that could defend...that he was a "padder". Remember that he hit his prime still in the first half of the 70's when the league was quite unbalanced, and spent his entire career in the awful Norris division, which consisted of the Habs (who killed everybody) and then four weak sister teams: Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, Detroit (Dead Things era) and Washington. The league, in general, was very polarized between the very good teams and the very bad.

If you look at Dionne's playoff career, that sort of plays out. His first two playoff seasons were actually pretty good. His team twice got through the first round and lost shootout series against Boston. This kind of hockey worked well for Dionne. The Bruins didn't try to shut down Dionne; they just outscored him. Then he hit a wall. First it was the Maple Leafs of Börje Salming and a collection of tough checking forwards who just beat him up in a first round rout, and then the Rangers stuck Brad Park and the Bulldog Line on him the next season and pulled the trick again. I remember this Rangers series pretty well; Dionne got no space, was constantly getting whacked and shoved around by bigger players when he tried to get into scoring position, and just generally got thrown off his game.

After that, it seemed like teams had a "formula" for stopping Dionne. It wasn't just checking, but physical intimidation. The Rangers did it to him again, and the Canucks did it, as did the Islanders at the end of the decade. Dionne was brave - he wouldn't back down, but his body could only do so much and I think he got worn out by the constant beating he took. To an extent, this was a product of the era. The 1970's were a time of goon hockey, and the refs didn't go out of their way to protect star players, letting the thugs sort it out amongst themselves. LA could never seem to get its act together on that front, and so Dionne was too often unprotected.

Sturminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2012, 10:38 AM
  #298
Leafs Forever
Registered User
 
Leafs Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,781
vCash: 500
Might be interested in moving a little downfrom #124 (depending on player availability), but I'd really want to moveupfrom my next pick (#152) for that.

Leafs Forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2012, 12:03 PM
  #299
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 50
My 113th is on the block if I receive a good offer.

I'm currently researching so no , I'm not taking my clock time to negociate yet , once I choose a player I will pick him so if you have offers send it.

BenchBrawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2012, 12:49 PM
  #300
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 50
To Reen: 138 - 180
To Velociraptor: 113 - 218

waiting for committee & velo to confirm

BenchBrawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:42 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.