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Old
01-02-2012, 03:06 AM
  #101
hmminvisiblecola1279
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Originally Posted by bellagiobob View Post
Looks like Dolphin fans have had enough of the losing. Anyone here own a plane?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1152134.html
Dolphins fans have listened to the same horse**** that Oilers fans are currently being subjected to for many years. It took many years however the stands in Miami are about half empty and the fans that still give a crap are all for the organizational hierarchy or fire everyone. Sparano was hardly the main problem for the Dolphins, I am not a fan of Renney's however he is just one of the cogs that shouldn't be here in the long run.


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Old
01-02-2012, 03:29 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
No Bingo. The summer leading up to that season they tried to trade for Heatley and signed Khabby. That is not a team that is rebuilding. And it is bs to include that year as year one of a rebuild. It really isnt a rebuild anyway, its more or less incompetence and natural selection at work.
Hence why I said that it started at the TD of '09-10 and not at the start of it.

Not a rebuild? I'm sorry but when a team looks towards Ales Hemsky as its best player by a country mile for a number of years and the fans creamed their jeans at the thought of Hossa and Heatley end up getting Hall and RNH, it is a rebuild. It might not be how you or many others would do it but it is a rebuild, one that was finally bought into by management leading up to the trade deadline of '09-10.

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Old
01-02-2012, 09:47 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Hence why I said that it started at the TD of '09-10 and not at the start of it.

Not a rebuild? I'm sorry but when a team looks towards Ales Hemsky as its best player by a country mile for a number of years and the fans creamed their jeans at the thought of Hossa and Heatley end up getting Hall and RNH, it is a rebuild. It might not be how you or many others would do it but it is a rebuild, one that was finally bought into by management leading up to the trade deadline of '09-10.
They were sellers at the TD. Because they were in last place by a mile. Hardly evidence of a rebuild. The real proof in the pudding were the moves or should I say non-moves made the following summer.

We didnt start tanking in earnest until AFTER we drafted Hall. Then it was just disgusting, and still is to this day. I love Hall and Hopkins and that's great and all, but we need to be doing more as far as filling areas of need on this team. If the plan is solely to suck bottom and draft high, then Im afraid we probably havent even hit the half way point in the rebuild yet. Not by a long shot. We have one good line atm. That's it.

No secondary scoring, no defense and no goaltending. Should only take about five or six more years of top picks to fill all those holes.

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01-02-2012, 11:38 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
They were sellers at the TD. Because they were in last place by a mile. Hardly evidence of a rebuild. The real proof in the pudding were the moves or should I say non-moves made the following summer.

We didnt start tanking in earnest until AFTER we drafted Hall. Then it was just disgusting, and still is to this day. I love Hall and Hopkins and that's great and all, but we need to be doing more as far as filling areas of need on this team. If the plan is solely to suck bottom and draft high, then Im afraid we probably havent even hit the half way point in the rebuild yet. Not by a long shot. We have one good line atm. That's it.

No secondary scoring, no defense and no goaltending. Should only take about five or six more years of top picks to fill all those holes.
realistically, we are likely 2 years away from being a playoff team.... i would expect that we will stay with the pack longer next season, but likely still not make the playoffs

i agree that depending on the draft alone is pure folly, but i don't think for a second that the oilers management plans to follow this route... i think they have been trying to fill some holes, as evidenced by signing belanger and eager this past offseason... the problem is that these 3rd line forwards are only complimentary players and can't carry a team themselves... it doesn't help that they are both having their worst personal seasons in a long, long time.... 3rd and 4th line players shine on teams with really good top-6 players (surprise surprise right? lol)... our top-6 is not that great, even the kids don't dominate games consistently yet and our 2nd line is a complete and utter joke outside of smyth

no, we'll continue to make secondary signings this offseason, in an attempt to get more veteran talent, but it won't matter a lick until the kids are mature enough to lead the way... that takes time, and there isn't a dam thing we can do to speed it up (unless you can convince suter or weber to come play in edmonton, and we all know that won't happen)

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Old
01-02-2012, 01:02 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
They were sellers at the TD. Because they were in last place by a mile. Hardly evidence of a rebuild. The real proof in the pudding were the moves or should I say non-moves made the following summer.

We didnt start tanking in earnest until AFTER we drafted Hall. Then it was just disgusting, and still is to this day. I love Hall and Hopkins and that's great and all, but we need to be doing more as far as filling areas of need on this team. If the plan is solely to suck bottom and draft high, then Im afraid we probably havent even hit the half way point in the rebuild yet. Not by a long shot. We have one good line atm. That's it.

No secondary scoring, no defense and no goaltending. Should only take about five or six more years of top picks to fill all those holes.
So being a seller at the deadline instead of trying to get some help at the deadline does not = rebuilding? Really?

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Old
01-02-2012, 01:04 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
realistically, we are likely 2 years away from being a playoff team.... i would expect that we will stay with the pack longer next season, but likely still not make the playoffs

i agree that depending on the draft alone is pure folly, but i don't think for a second that the oilers management plans to follow this route... i think they have been trying to fill some holes, as evidenced by signing belanger and eager this past offseason... the problem is that these 3rd line forwards are only complimentary players and can't carry a team themselves... it doesn't help that they are both having their worst personal seasons in a long, long time.... 3rd and 4th line players shine on teams with really good top-6 players (surprise surprise right? lol)... our top-6 is not that great, even the kids don't dominate games consistently yet and our 2nd line is a complete and utter joke outside of smyth

no, we'll continue to make secondary signings this offseason, in an attempt to get more veteran talent, but it won't matter a lick until the kids are mature enough to lead the way... that takes time, and there isn't a dam thing we can do to speed it up (unless you can convince suter or weber to come play in edmonton, and we all know that won't happen)
Well said, the only thing that can be done is to move guys like Hemsky and Gagner and try to fill other holes with their trade returns. That said an unsigned Hemsky = picks/prospects so Gagner if he is to be traded is our best bet for a young D.

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01-02-2012, 01:06 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Our rebuild really "officially" started at the trade deadline of the '09-10 season so the '09-10 season became year 1 IMO we got Hall as a result of that season, this year we got RNH from the '10-11 season, that's year two, now we're looking at this year as year 3 of the rebuild '11-12. Next year will be year 4 of the rebuild. Maybe you want to consider the '10 draft as the start of the rebuild, but IMO it started before that.
They didn't start trimming the fat off the roster until the offseason of the Hall draft year (Moreau, POS, Souray etc.) so even though a few trades signalling a rebuild were made at the deadline (Staios, Vis trade), the floodgates of the rebuild didn't start to open until that offseason so this is Year 2 really.
Even if you want to consider the TD of that year to be the beginning of the rebuild, it's still not 2 years since that happened so this is not Year 3 of the rebuild no matter how you slice it.

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01-02-2012, 01:12 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
They didn't start trimming the fat off the roster until the offseason of the Hall draft year (Moreau, POS etc.) so even though a few trades signalling a rebuild were made at the deadline (Staios, Vis trade), the floodgates of the rebuild didn't start to open until that offseason so this is Year 2 really.
Even if you want to consider the TD of that year to be the beginning of the rebuild, it's still not 2 years since that happened so this is not Year 3 of the rebuild no matter how you slice it.
If you want to get technical it will be 3 years in February. Also you can't make every move at the deadline, however the deadline was the start of the rebuild.

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01-02-2012, 01:16 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
If you want to get technical it will be 3 years in February. Also you can't make every move at the deadline, however the deadline was the start of the rebuild.
ah,ok....i'll take your word for it mr. mod....if this really is year 3 of the rebuild this February, then we sure haven't improved all that much have we? something tells me we have a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go yet!!

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01-02-2012, 01:17 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
If you want to get technical it will be 3 years in February. Also you can't make every move at the deadline, however the deadline was the start of the rebuild.
I'm still not so sure, the Visnovsky trade was due to him requesting a trade more than anything else so it's not like they planned on going younger on D on purpose and the Staios trade was a salary dump which is what many sellers do at the deadline so i'm not so sure that those two moves would be considered full on rebuild moves.
I would say that they were contemplating a rebuild at that time but they didn't go into full rebuild mode until the offseason when the coaching staff was cleared out for another one and when the captain was waived etc.

We'll never know for sure but to me, it started when they cleaned house in that offseason.

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01-02-2012, 01:42 PM
  #111
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I was told i need to be patient in order for the rebuild to work. So i bought a lazy boy.

Now i wait

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01-02-2012, 01:56 PM
  #112
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I agree, he is every thing the oilers need. I hope we finish 4th ish, so at least we can say we improved and grab Murray.
Yeah this i how i feel, that could be a 10-15 point improvement for just 3 spots, Murray would be great. PP, PK, GD all would be improved.

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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
No Bingo. The summer leading up to that season they tried to trade for Heatley and signed Khabby. That is not a team that is rebuilding. And it is bs to include that year as year one of a rebuild. It really isnt a rebuild anyway, its more or less incompetence and natural selection at work.
Well I'm not really trying to say what "year 1" of the rebuild, you could argue march 2010-feb 2011 was 1, you could argue, 09-10 was, you could argue 10-11 was.

But there was a change from summer 09 (free agency/big fish trades), to the deadline of 2010 (selling, drafting).

and yes, it was incompetence and natural selection that lead to the fall for hall, which forced management to change their approach.

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01-02-2012, 01:58 PM
  #113
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ah,ok....i'll take your word for it mr. mod....if this really is year 3 of the rebuild this February, then we sure haven't improved all that much have we? something tells me we have a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go yet!!
Well think of it this way, unless RNH hits the Sophomore jinx next year we should have Hall, RNH, and Eberle firing on all cylinders. The defense needs to get improved for sure, and anything less than adding a solid top 4 D between now and the start of next year should be considered a failure. Whitney returning to form would be great, but a definite uncertainty. Next year we should be in the playoff hunt.

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I'm still not so sure, the Visnovsky trade was due to him requesting a trade more than anything else so it's not like they planned on going younger on D on purpose and the Staios trade was a salary dump which is what many sellers do at the deadline so i'm not so sure that those two moves would be considered full on rebuild moves.
I would say that they were contemplating a rebuild at that time but they didn't go into full rebuild mode until the offseason when the coaching staff was cleared out for another one and when the captain was waived etc.

We'll never know for sure but to me, it started when they cleaned house in that offseason.
Lubo was acquired before the rebuild and was traded for a younger D that was entering his prime. My interpretation is that the rebuild started at the deadline, there really is nothing that anyone can say to prove the other poster wrong, the only people that actually know is the Oilers ownership and management. I've said my piece and will leave it at that.

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Old
01-02-2012, 02:00 PM
  #114
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I was told i need to be patient in order for the rebuild to work. So i bought a lazy boy.

Now i wait
Smart man

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01-02-2012, 02:10 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post


Lubo was acquired before the rebuild and was traded for a younger D that was entering his prime. My interpretation is that the rebuild started at the deadline, there really is nothing that anyone can say to prove the other poster wrong, the only people that actually know is the Oilers ownership and management. I've said my piece and will leave it at that.
Fair enough big guy.

We all have different interpretations in regards to when the rebuild started and nobody will know for sure what management was really thinking at the time so it's all speculation on our part.
I've said my piece and i'll leave it at that.

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01-02-2012, 02:16 PM
  #116
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Fair enough big guy.

We all have different interpretations in regards to when the rebuild started and nobody will know for sure what management was really thinking at the time so it's all speculation on our part.
I've said my piece and i'll leave it at that.
The only thing that I believe that many of us would agree on is the fact that the start of the rebuild was not planned, a big **** pie exploded and that was the start of it.

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01-02-2012, 02:18 PM
  #117
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The only thing that I believe that many of us would agree on is the fact that the start of the rebuild was not planned, a big **** pie exploded and that was the start of it.
No argument here. They fell a$$ backwards into the rebuild.

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01-02-2012, 03:04 PM
  #118
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One more crack at it Scott, how about Hemsky and Whitney in exchange for Columbus' first selection next June.

Yakupov AND Ryan Murray.....Sell the Farm!

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01-02-2012, 03:07 PM
  #119
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This place makes me sad. Just Jan 2nd and we're already hoping for another top 3 pick?

I'm hoping we finish as high as possible, **** drafting in the lottery, perpetual rebuild is what it is.

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01-02-2012, 06:37 PM
  #120
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Sure you will.

Anyway, I hate this thread. I've watched and loved the Oilers for 25+ years but I'm getting perilously close to cutting the cord. I know that I'll be labelled as a "fair weather" or lousy fan for saying this but whatever; I don't give a ****. Playoffs were always a looooooooong shot in 2011/2012 but what's happening this year is inexcusable and shouldn't be condoned or accepted.

How about those Ottawa Senators, eh? Weren't they supposed to finish last?
Me too. For example, my favorite games of all are the Oilers vs the local team, Vancouver. Boxing day I didnt even PVR the game.

Mr. katz. Are you reading this? Do something for gods sakes. You are losing even the most loyal fans.

So before any of you young guys who are used to the crappy Oilers and grew up always hoping for.500 or playoffs as a successful year, remember the fact that us older guys have been patient for two decades to get back to respectability. Patience? You have no idea. Rebuild has been happenning since 1990.

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01-02-2012, 06:54 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
If you want to get technical it will be 3 years in February. Also you can't make every move at the deadline, however the deadline was the start of the rebuild.
Actually, by that logic, by this February we will offically be done 2 full years of the rebuild. Therefore, we would be starting year 3 but wont be a full 3 years until February of 2013.

Whether you look at it from that 09/10 trade deadline or from the 2010 draft, we are still completing year 2 of the rebuild.

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01-02-2012, 06:55 PM
  #122
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Me too. For example, my favorite games of all are the Oilers vs the local team, Vancouver. Boxing day I didnt even PVR the game.

Mr. katz. Are you reading this? Do something for gods sakes. You are losing even the most loyal fans.

So before any of you young guys who are used to the crappy Oilers and grew up always hoping for.500 or playoffs as a successful year, remember the fact that us older guys have been patient for two decades to get back to respectability. Patience? You have no idea. Rebuild has been happenning since 1990.
as a young fan you describe, i definitely feel like we are in a better place right now than when we were 2000-2009

every year was like "so you think were gonna make the playoffs" ... "i dont know, maybe, but if we do we'll just lose"

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01-02-2012, 07:06 PM
  #123
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Me too. For example, my favorite games of all are the Oilers vs the local team, Vancouver. Boxing day I didnt even PVR the game.

Mr. katz. Are you reading this? Do something for gods sakes. You are losing even the most loyal fans.

So before any of you young guys who are used to the crappy Oilers and grew up always hoping for.500 or playoffs as a successful year, remember the fact that us older guys have been patient for two decades to get back to respectability. Patience? You have no idea. Rebuild has been happenning since 1990.
amen, ive said it before but ill say it again, i remember being sold a kid line consisting of reisen,swanson and cleary. hahaha. i like how everyone was happy to boot out cogs and now want gags gone, werent they the corners of a rebuild? hahaha in a few years itll be lets get that bum hall out of here and rnh is too soft! MAYBE just MAYBE we have a ****** organization.

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01-02-2012, 07:10 PM
  #124
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So Jones is good to go?

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01-02-2012, 07:22 PM
  #125
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as a young fan you describe, i definitely feel like we are in a better place right now than when we were 2000-2009

every year was like "so you think were gonna make the playoffs" ... "i dont know, maybe, but if we do we'll just lose"
Yeah.. but when we actually won a series, it was like winning the Stanley Cup lol

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